Well, I looked at a bunch of pics on the internetz and it seems most people leave that ring visible....

 

Mine was not recently. I just had mine redone. He says he always covers the ring. I cant say I can tell a difference or not. There are two schools of thought and I really dont know if there very many people have A/Bed the results. Seems to me its fine either way.

 

I always have the ring covered. why have that extra bit of space between the mouthpiece and neck ring. It seems like that would or could impede air flow or something. It's a small detail but I swear my mouthpieces play better without that gap there.

 

I recently started working with a great tech, and he's showing me everything, and that situation has come up a bunch. He says he always covers it. He says he's tried both, but hasn't found a noticable difference in sound. He does say that by corking all the way to the edge, it helps (slightly, admittidly) with the seal and sturdyness between the mouthpiece and neck cork. So, there ya go...

 

Great info! Thanks guys!

 

If Steve says its so I will go with it. The perceptions of a long time player of everything under the sun is good enough for me. It makes sense and I cant figure any way in which the alternate method would be better for anything other than long term reinforcement of the neck. I do like that the ring serves this purpose. Covered or uncovered it still supports the integrity of the tube.

 

I put the cork out over the ring to eliminate the spit/condensation reservoir that is created when the end of the cork doesn't go all the way out to the end of the neck. It makes a big difference (for me).

 

It always sounds good in theory to cover the ring on the end of the neck, but sometimes it is not possible. It all depends upon the diameter of the ring and diameter of the interior of the mouthpiece shank. For example, on my SBA alto the ring is just .44 mm smaller than the inside of the mouthpieces I play. That means the cork would need to be sanded down to around .25 mm to fit. Even if that could be done, cork that thin on the end of the neck would never last very long anyway.

 

Should I cover it entirely or cut the cork to leave it visible?

Visible.

 

Since new saxes come with it uncovered it seems that is the correct way so that is how I do mine

 

My saxophone professor in college took the ring off completely...this was in the late 1980's and haven't had a problem.

 

If you want to really impress others you can call the "ring on the end of the neck" by its technical name which is Ferrule.
There aren't you impressed? :mrgreen:

 

Which begs the question..did the GREATS play with a Ferrule or without? :twisted:

 

Overwhelmed

 

Not really, I would not call it a ferrule, others may. Reinforcing ring on neck as poster started is quite sufficient and self explanatory

 

I've always had that damned ring removed. It does serve a purpose to keep the tube reinforced but in 5 decades I've only had a neck split once and it was no big deal to have it resoldered. Could just be a personal thing but I think the horn responds better and sounds warmer without it.

 

Or you could call it "that damned ring" if you like too. :bluewink:

 

I call it "my precious"...

 

For some reason engineers and designers put things on cars, motorcycles, trumpets, saxes, etc, for a reason. I guess I am one of those people that never would modify anything because I always think that it affects something else. I would just leave it showing since it is easier than having someone screw your neck up trying to remove it.

 

I generally leave the ferrule exposed; and I've done a lot of back and forth with this with a few techs that worked on my horns over the years. I've even had it removed and put back on at least one horn. It can wear out the cork at the end when covered up and if it protrudes too much it might actually unbalance the mouthpiece at the shank end.

 

the O.E.D's definition of ferrule is:

noun

*
a ring or cap , typically a metal one , which strengthens the end of a handle, stick , or tube and prevents it from splitting or wearing.
*
a metal band strengthening or forming a joint.


I leave the ferrule showing.

 

the O.E.D's definition of ferrule is:

noun

*
a ring or cap , typically a metal one , which strengthens the end of a handle, stick , or tube and prevents it from splitting or wearing.
*
a metal band strengthening or forming a joint.
.

Thanks griff.

My explanantion if I may

If I have a wood clarinet barrell that has a ring on the end I would call that ring a ferrule, becuase the item is pressed / swedged into place to provide a structural reinforcement.

If I was joining two wires together ie swedging them then the item of steel or lead would be the ferrule.

The ferrule at the end of a broomstick or handle is to prevent the wood from splitting so it is swedged to fit and prevent damage

My learning was a ferrule is a device which is mechanically deformed or shaped to provide re-inforcement to an area, as the examples above, without the ferrule the area will break or the joint will fail. For a sax neck the end ring is hard soldered as part of the neck itself, it is also not needed to prevent the neck from splitting, it is not needed as a re-inforcement. The neck works fine without the ring in place.

But thats my understanding,

 

How do you pronounce it?

 

It rhymes with "sterile".

The ferrule's purpose on a saxophone neck is to reinforce the end of the brass tube which is .70 mm (.028 ") or less thick and protect it from getting bent or damaged. Some of the older inexpensive student models did not have these and the ends of those necks easily crack once they have been bent and straightened a few times. It is similar to the brace at the bottom of the neck which helps to reinforce the curve and make it more difficult for the neck to get pulled down and go out of round. Just because manufacturers make these braces and rings look decorative does not mean that they do not have a structural purpose and function.

A protective ring does not have to be pressure fit or swaged in order to be called a ferrule so long as its function is to reinforce and protect the tubing it encloses.

 

I cork the neck up to the ferrule's edge as normal. I then separately cover the ferrule with a thin strip of material so that it is a snug (sliding smoothly but with a decent seal) fit inside the mouthpiece shank. Usually a strip of the thicker sheet teflon (attached with super glue naturally...) and gently sanded down as required with an 800 grit sandpaper strip works fine. On one ferrule I had to use a thin strip of tech cork since the gap was too large for the available stock of sheet teflon I had on hand.

Good point- it takes just a couple of minutes to do, is unlikely to harm anything, and and to the extent that a small gap at the interface between the neck end and the mouthpiece shank causes a problem it addresses that problem. There's also Martin Mod's "zinger ring" theoretic effect.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MartinMods-Mart...escher-Neck-Zinger-Ring-/250465664492?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a50eabdec

I figure the sheet teflon is about as reflective as brass would be.

I've not heard an audible difference in use after the initial "this is better than sliced bread" novelty aspect wore off with or without the strip but it's a small tinker and so I do it anyway.

Bad point; the covered ferrule is pretty accurately sized to the mouthpiece shank. Using a more tightly shanked mouthpiece could wind up with a binding effect- though grease and minor twisting muscle generally render this a non issue in practice.

On regular non ferruled necks I paint the face of the cork on the end with nail polish to enhance reflectivity but again, figure it's more voodoo than acoustic science.

 

I colored in my ferrule using a green felt-tip marker, and now my horn SCREAMS!

 

Probably well suited for Celtic music in any case.

In no way shape or form do I assert that any of the above tinkers constitute anything more than "too much time on my hands"... As with many aspects of fine-tuning horns with various gimcracks the effects are oft imaginary and sometimes don't even rise to that level!

 

My MVII had the Damn Ferrulating Zinger Ring Thing showing - I did buy it second hand but at that time it was only some 3 years old - so I would assume that's the way Selmer wanted it. Which was good enough for me.

 

Played a Selmer straight out of the box in the past few year? They are set up by a special team of monkeys borrowed from the Lakey Mouthpiece company. If that is what they intended Im scared.

 

I figure- and I could well be figuring wrong- that the ring on the end of the necks is placed there by the manufacturers for reinforcement- even though the many necks out there without the reinforcement offer mute testimony to the fact that it's not needed. This would make it a ferrule according to the normal definition. I see it as a question of designer's intent rather than actual necessity.

The "zinger" ring notion is unlikely to have been a part of the original design though- given the resonance stones and similar hoopla that the advertising departments gin up- I wouldn't be surprised to see some enterprising copy writer retroactively claim the mythic prevention of energy sapping cork soundwave absorption as an effect.

The Olds trumpets of the late twenties had a reinforcing ring on the bell rim of their trumpets. In brochures from the first couple of years production it was described as a reinforcing ring. Sometime in the mid thirties the ad dept got ahold of it and voila; it was reborn as a "tone ring" - enhancing resonance. Same ring, same horn.

 

I figure- and I could well be figuring wrong- that the ring on the end of the necks is placed there by the manufacturers for reinforcement-

Actually that would be good to know, (irrelevant to this topic) whether the manufacturers actually fitted the ring as a reinforcement or simply as a decoration,

Regarding the ferrule, my point was a ferrule is a device which is mechanical swedged crushed formed to stop a joint from splitting, you can remove ferrules from any item with physical pressure or side rocking to work it off. The ring on the neck is hard soldered, not swedged or fitted, it is actually part of the neck.

 

I had to remove the ring from the neck of my new alto to be able to use a few of my mouthpieces. Also, removing the ring stopped the airy sound I would get with my Link STM.