[simso]

Should I cover it entirely or cut the cork to leave it visible?

Visible.

 

[simso]

Not really, I would not call it a ferrule, others may. Reinforcing ring on neck as poster started is quite sufficient and self explanatory

 

[simso]

the O.E.D's definition of ferrule is:

noun

*
a ring or cap , typically a metal one , which strengthens the end of a handle, stick , or tube and prevents it from splitting or wearing.
*
a metal band strengthening or forming a joint.
.

Thanks griff.

My explanantion if I may

If I have a wood clarinet barrell that has a ring on the end I would call that ring a ferrule, becuase the item is pressed / swedged into place to provide a structural reinforcement.

If I was joining two wires together ie swedging them then the item of steel or lead would be the ferrule.

The ferrule at the end of a broomstick or handle is to prevent the wood from splitting so it is swedged to fit and prevent damage

My learning was a ferrule is a device which is mechanically deformed or shaped to provide re-inforcement to an area, as the examples above, without the ferrule the area will break or the joint will fail. For a sax neck the end ring is hard soldered as part of the neck itself, it is also not needed to prevent the neck from splitting, it is not needed as a re-inforcement. The neck works fine without the ring in place.

But thats my understanding,

 

[simso]

I figure- and I could well be figuring wrong- that the ring on the end of the necks is placed there by the manufacturers for reinforcement-

Actually that would be good to know, (irrelevant to this topic) whether the manufacturers actually fitted the ring as a reinforcement or simply as a decoration,

Regarding the ferrule, my point was a ferrule is a device which is mechanical swedged crushed formed to stop a joint from splitting, you can remove ferrules from any item with physical pressure or side rocking to work it off. The ring on the neck is hard soldered, not swedged or fitted, it is actually part of the neck.

 

[simso]

Looks the part chris,

The ferrule's purpose on a saxophone neck is to reinforce the end of the brass tube which is .70 mm (.028 ") or less thick and protect it from getting bent or damaged. Some of the older inexpensive student models did not have these and the ends of those necks easily crack once they have been bent and straightened a few times.

A lot of saxophones do not have these, including expensive and inexpensive models. your interpretation of them being fitted to prevent damage or getting bent is simply your interpretation. Not fact. Many sax necks crack for different reasons. Including those with rings

It is similar to the brace at the bottom of the neck which helps to reinforce the curve and make it more difficult for the neck to get pulled down and go out of round. Just because manufacturers make these braces and rings look decorative does not mean that they do not have a structural purpose and function.

No one is saying its purely decorative. No one is implying that manufacturers are simply trying to make it look pretty, it is merely different, no different than a sax with rolled tone holes to a sax with filed tone holes, there all different, there are expensive saxes and inexpensive saxes with "rings" fitted

A protective ring does not have to be pressure fit or swaged in order to be called a ferrule so long as its function is to reinforce and protect the tubing it encloses.

Interesting perception, however entirely different to my understanding of a ferrule.

That being said, you can call it what you like, I have no issues with that. My point was the original posters reference was more than fine.

You said in your earlier post if you want to really impress someone then use its technical name "ferrule", I dis-agree I did not know that in the repair industry it was an accepted term / descriptive for this part. Hence my reply

 

[simso]

In the States it's been referred to as that; and on other threads on this site in the past by others. I came across it some years ago when the tech I had at the time did the work on mine. I thought it was a rather common term for the piece.

Thanks grumps, it may be something that is taught on course, Ive got a mate here in australia that flew to america to do the allied repair course, Ill ask him what they were taught to call it. Be interesting, Here a ferrule is an entirely different item to that decribed in this specific instance.

In the band instrument repair trade it is called a "ferrule". That is a fact.

May I ask apart from word of mouth, where there is a diffinitive picture or reference from a reputable source that lists this, as the correct terminology. You've now sparked my interest in this, Im curious as to whether it is in fact definitive or simply like a lot of terminology's . people have simply gone yeh that sounds like a good descriptive term for that item

 

[simso]

Thanks grumps, it may be something that is taught on course, Ive got a mate here in australia that flew to america to do the allied repair course, Ill ask him what they were taught to call it. Be interesting, Here a ferrule is an entirely different item to that decribed in this specific instance.

Just a follow up, I spoke to my mate who did the course, they only ever referred to it as the ring on the end of the neck. Napbirt dont have any references to it as a ferrule, and delphi which is just repairers has no one using the term neck and ferrule together either.

In the band instrument repair trade it is called a "ferrule". That is a fact.

Im asuming then it must be like a lot of other things, its simply a term a person or local community has used and others have gone along the lines of that sounds good enough.

One of the downsides I see in the musical repair industry is even amongst repairers the ability to describe a part can be difficult becuase there is no standard, I sometimes am looking for a part in the allied or kraus or ferees catalogs only to go ""they call that a what"" and even amongst these recognised companies there are differences used to describe similiar parts

 

[simso]

If you have access to Delphi Band Instrument Repair Forum search for thread 6059.1 and you will see several experienced techs use this term. There are also hundreds of references to "ferrule" on Delphi in relation to joints on brass instruments.

Now we are flogging a dead horse. And time to get to the point

I personaly dont care what some one calls the ring at the end of a sax neck,

If the original poster started the thread of with ferrule, I would not have corrected him, would have simply made my responses as the ring

If someone came in to my shop and said the ferulle at the end of the neck is damaged, I would know what they are talking about, and I would not correct them either, I would however when talking to them use the word ring in my repsonse

The reason I interjected was becuase you said

If you want to really impress others you can call the "ring on the end of the neck" by its technical name which is Ferrule.
There aren't you impressed? :mrgreen:

No I wasnt, I dis-agreed, and simply mentioned that the original reference IMO was technically correct,

Then In a follow up, you decide to go further and re-interate it by saying its a " Fact "

In the band instrument repair trade it is called a "ferrule". That is a fact.

This was news to me, (and I work in the band instrument repair industry) and if you remember I said can you post links for info that reflects this as this was a new terminology for me, I was willing to accept that this could be a terminology I was un-aware off, and if so I would amend all my future references to reflect this terminology had it been correct.

Back to regarding Delphi

Wow one thread amongst thousands of threads, which happens to be a thread from 4 years ago, had a member ask whether others cork over the top of the ferrule, the responses there after addressed that members question, is this the overwhelming fact, a singular 4 year old topic which mentions the two words together, well thats diffinative enough for me.

Yes I dont disagree with the other uses of the word in relation to the brass instruments, thats not whats in question,

In the band instrument repair trade it is called a "ferrule". That is a fact.

Clearly its not a fact. Hopefully this puts an end to the topic

PS, out of curiosity why did you also decide to call it a ring in your response this thread ref #43, after the discussion about it being a ring or ferrule,

To me it is common sense that the ring reinforces and protects the end of the neck rather than just being for decoration.

 

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If the end ring is not covered by the cork, then its either still manufacturers cork, or you have had someone do the re-cork who has taken the time to fit the cork up behind the ring.

As has been mentioned in this thread, it really does not appear to matter to much whether you cork over or behind the ring. So long as the end result is sanded to accomodate the mouthpiece then all is good.