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Thanks Everyone, I didn't know that saxophone players need to adjust thier playing based on that table. so the Concert D is actually B on saxophone.

My question, why they didn't name them as concert notes, why making it complicated for us. They could name B as D, and A as C, and make it easy, why both note names?
Yes, concert D is actually a B on the alto saxophone. The concert D will be an E on tenor sax. I'm not going to try and explain why the sax is a transposing instrument, except to say if you name the notes on the alto according to concert pitches, you'd have rename them all on tenor in order to use the same fingerings. You really don't have to worry about it. If you are reading music, you can get the music already transposed for you. If you are improvising, you just play in the sax key, once you have made the transposition (i.e. to play the blues in concert C, play the blues in A on your alto). That last statement may not make total sense to you right now, but don't worry about it yet.

Regarding the tuner, concert pitch will work fine. Just read the needle (or green light) to see if the note you are playing is in tune. But also take Stephen Howard's advice and learn to use your ear. It would help greatly to take some lessons if you are just starting out.
 
Thanks Everyone, I didn't know that saxophone players need to adjust thier playing based on that table. so the Concert D is actually B on saxophone.

My question, why they didn't name them as concert notes, why making it complicated for us. They could name B as D, and A as C, and make it easy, why both note names?
Explanation here: http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=228790&postcount=11: Why the full choir of transposing saxophones in different keys?

By the way, all common modern saxes are pitched at Bb or Eb. When saxes in these different keys play together, they have to play from music written on separate pages in 2 different keys.
 
I just bought a tuner which is made for the saxophone. It has a round clip intended to clip onto the bell of a sax. What I like is that besides the needle display, the whole thing turns bright green when you are on the note. I also like that it shuts down when it doesn't detect a sound after a few minutes. It cost me under $20 and it is called the ZOID Z-2000. As a beginner with a sax that is somewhat imperfect, I find that a tuner is indispensable.

Stephen's article is interesting but he ends up saying that a tuning fork is better. An electronic tuner is like a tuning fork, one which is easier to use. Of course you don't want to always be in tune since you need to bend notes and use vibrato etc.. The tuning is on average. Being perfectly in tune all the time would sound horrible. We know that.
 
Stephen's article is interesting but he ends up saying that a tuning fork is better. An electronic tuner is like a tuning fork, one which is easier to use. ...
No, an electronic tuner is not like a tuning fork. The tuner is a visual reference, whereas the tuning fork is an audio reference. It's the audio adjustment, using your ear, that you need to master in order to play in tune when on stage with other musicians.

That was the whole point of Stephen's article. He can chime in and correct me if I'm misinterpreting, but I took his point to be that you have to train your mouth/throat/tongue/embouchure to respond to your EAR, not your eyes. If you are making those subtle adjustments in response to a little green light or needle, rather than what your ear is telling you in comparison to a tuning fork, or any sounded note, then you are training yourself to respond to your eyes, not your ears.

Hopefully that makes sense. It's rather important!!
 
Then writers shouldn't use spellcheck. I think tuners do train your ears. You do hear what you are playing. Musicians are not zombies. You probably don't need one if you are an expert musician with a good ear. I don't mind being dependent on a tuner for now. When I do math, I use a calculator. That is the modern way. It's possible to keep an eye on the tuner and listen to the other musicians at the same time. If you are playing alone, it would be more difficult to know if you are off. You expect someone to keep hitting a tuning fork? That does not sound practical.
 
Then writers shouldn't use spellcheck.
Alto of wirters don't.

The point is that children learn to spell before they use a spellchecker, and very few saxophone players would use a tuner on a gig, in many situations they would be laughed off the stage so you need to be able to tune using your ears, and the sooner they learn that the better.

The point of this is that ear training is much more effective when you use your ears rather than your eyes, unless of course you can't actually hear whether you are out of tune or not.
 
Oh I see this is all about looking cool. I think children these days do use spellcheck and I think it helps you learn how to spell.
I think you've entirely missed the salient point, and I doubt it can be made any clearer.
Hope the tuner works out for you.

Regards,
 
Oh I see this is all about looking cool. I think children these days do use spellcheck and I think it helps you learn how to spell.
No, it's not about looking cool, it's about ear training. You can look at a tuner, adjust to get the green light, and still be out of tune. It's your ears that are important in tuning, not your eyes.

Just as many people use there spell checker and still spell words incorrectly, as I just did in this sentence. Homonyms.
 
No, I did not miss the point. I strongly disagree with it. You can use your eyes and ears at the same time. It's a bit like walking and chewing gum at the same time. I think you missed my point.
I see (hear?) what you're saying, but imo your analogy does not stand up. We are talking about training your ear so you can match tones on your horn, which is strictly an aural endeavor. You are training your ear, not your eyes.

FWIW, I never said there's anything wrong with using a tuner (or spell check for that matter). It's how you use it that matters. As a quick check to see if you're in tune up and down the horn, it's fine. Also not a bad idea when trying out a new mpc or horn. But it will not be very useful in training your ear to match tones. When you play a note against the same note on a piano or other instrument, you can hear if you are in tune or not. This is not the same thing as looking at a green light, no matter how you parse it.

If you disagree, then you disagree. But I wonder if you have tested this fully?

I should add, that like most horn players, I struggled for some time with intonation. I still have to work on it, but I've gotten much, much closer over the years. What worked for me was playing a lot with other musicians and paying close attention to what I was hearing. The tuner only acted as a reference point. It didn't help me to play in tune on the bandstand with other musicians.
 
The arguments about this seem silly. The chromatic tuner is a versatile, useful tool. Alone in your room, what other reference do you have, if you don't have a whole bagful of tuning forks? Also works to facilitate initial tune-up in ensembles, even if tuning to the piano (you can calibrate the tuner, then pass it around), and periodic checkups after you've warmed up. Tuners aren't viewed as silly in concert ensemble practice and warm-up rooms -- why so for jazz, etc.?

Of course in performance, all pitch is relative. Wind and string instrumentalists, and vocalists do not perform in equal temperament. So what? Chromatic tuners are still useful for all of the above purposes, plus learning and adjusting to the tendencies of your instrument. That bagful of tuning forks isn't going to be of much use playing in-tune in an ensemble either.

The keys to me are to first know about where you are relative to the prevailing pitch, adjust as necessary (this may be a more or less continuous process as the night wears on), then match pitches (as applies) with those around you, and play your intervals/chords/scale degrees relative to the prevailing harmony correctly. No easy thing, and nothing much else to do about it except for a lot of listening and playing experience. It's a tough road if you aren't starting out with a fair amount of talent/discrimination/skill in this.
 
While we're on the topic of tuners, has anyone any experience with the operation of the Center Pitch CP2 tuner?

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Center-Pitch-CP2-Clampon-Chromatic-Tuner?sku=210011&src=3WWRWXGB&ZYXSEM=0
The Center Pitch tuner is unsuited for use on most saxophones, because it is designed to clamp onto the instrument (trumpet) and there is no place to attach it to the saxophone body that doesn't interfere with keywork and be visible while playing. It will work with some altos and tenors. I don't have a sop to try it on, so I can't help there.
I use the center pitch cp1 and love it. Its simple and attaches to your music lyre so its right in front of you while your playing. I think these units use vibration instead of sound, so they work well in a noisy environment.

its like this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Center-Pitch-Tuner-CP1_W0QQitemZ110471695268QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b8a04ba4
Okay, SOP for SoTW. :) These are the only responses to my question in post #30. Given the Center Pitch literature, they certainly implied that they worked with saxes. TenorTim verified that and is pleased with the results. Not that I'm going to run out and get one. Just thought the marketing concept interesting.

Questions -
1 - Does the sax body vibrate enough that the CP tuner can pick it up and extrapolate pitch? or,
2 - Is it still just sensing the vibrations broadcast by the vibrating air column within the sax? or,
3 - What am I missing here (something highly likely)? or,
4 - Is this worthy of another thread?
 
From the "official description" CenterPitch is perfect for use in noisy places because it feels the vibrations of the instrument and responds only to it.
I think this has to do with the instrument itself vibrating, not the air through it. I think it would work on any vibrating instrument not just wind driven ones. It responds quickly and is very sensitive IMO. That Ebay link had them new for 9.00 and free shipping! I paid $25 for mine. For $9.00 why not try one and see?
 
From the "official description" CenterPitch is perfect for use in noisy places because it feels the vibrations of the instrument and responds only to it.
I think this has to do with the instrument itself vibrating, not the air through it. I think it would work on any vibrating instrument not just wind driven ones. It responds quickly and is very sensitive IMO. That Ebay link had them new for 9.00 and free shipping! I paid $25 for mine. For $9.00 why not try one and see?
$9 is tempting. And I know Center Pitch says their tuner is picking up the vibrations from the instrument. People talk about how a certain sax feels as it vibrates in ones hands so I was more curious about if a (just) $25 (or less!) device would be intelligent enough to indeed sense the vibrations and convert them to something meaningful as pitch. From your personal testimony it appears to perform the tuner function quite well regardless of my skepticism towards perceived marketing hype.

But, then again, my perception is only based upon my knowledge and/or lack thereof! :D

I'll check out the eBay link. I'm basically borrowing my present Korg tuner from my daughters so it would be nice to have one of my very own! :)
 
Oh there are better more expensive models out there with lots more features.. but I like how easy and quick I can stick it on the sax. If I'm curious about a new reed being a little flat or sharp, I can pop it on there and know in just a few seconds. Regarding sensitivity, it is plenty sensitive enough for me. I often use it when practicing long tones to keep my embouchure firm and stable. As stated, the newer model CP2 uses a "universal" clamp, which doesn't seem as apt for saxophone use. I'd recommend it CP1 for saxes.
 
The arguments about this seem silly. The chromatic tuner is a versatile, useful tool..
Not a silly issue at all, imo. Nobody is saying the tuner isn't a useful tool. But like any tool, it has its limitations and some of us are pointing them out. Stephen Howard's article said it best and it's there for anyone to read, so I'll leave it at that.
 
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