Your horn is in good hands with Aaron. I’ve had great experience with him on a couple repairs.

 

Resist the neck unless yours is damaged or unsuitable for some reason - you are not there yet. Ask the shop to check the neck fit while they're at it. They will make minor adjustments to the octave system if it also needs them. Its usually hard to beat the original neck on an alto or baritone (modern). Because they are short and only have one bend, its not like the longer tenor necks with compound bends that can be so different. So, there really is no design change with alto necks and materials (brass, silver, copper, etc.) don't usually make a major difference.

 

Resist the neck unless yours is damaged or unsuitable for some reason - you are not there yet.

I agree with this. It is a 21, just love it for what it is.

Also, some pretty BAD internet lore floating around that the main difference between the 21/23's and say the 52's or 61's is the neck. I swear I have even read self-proclaimed 'Yamaha-certified technicians' make this claim. Ergo, you upgrade the former's neck and you basically have yerself a 52/61....the, ahem, 'hypothesis' goes.

It is...hogwash. The body designs of the models one-rung-up are NOT the same as the 21/23...as one would expect them not to be.

So ....maybe a replacement neck will make the horn respond slightly different and change the tonality (it probably will since, well...replacement necks tend to DO that )....and maybe the change will be something positive (or just as likely it will be welcome while the whole experience is 'new' but as time goes by it will settle in that..while it is different, it might not necessarily be better)...or maybe not.

I guess what I am getting across is....if you do that...do not have lofty expectations....

 

Thanks for the thoughts and I appreciate the insights. I will practice and save up for a better horn in the future. By that time my daughter might want to claim the 21 for herself.

 

Yesterday I dropped it off Mr. Sadsax at https://www.barnardrepair.com for a total repad and it will be done by the end of January and cannot wait to play it after the repairs. Aaron is also going the replace the missing key pearl on the D since the cork that is currently in place is not the prettiest.

Meanwhile, I am resisting a Custom V1 neck I have been watching on Reverb.

Your horn will benefit much more from Aaron's care than a new neck that isn't fit to the tenon. I suggest you live with the horn for a while - or at least have the conversation with Aaron whether he a) recommends a new neck, b) will fit the new neck while he has your horn in the shop.

Good call on going with Barnard. I bought a Super 20 from him with his overhaul, and it was magnificent!

 

I'm fortunate to live close to Aaron and he does all my repairs and tune ups. A master craftsman and a true gentleman!

 

I am confident it will be a solid performer for what it is when the repairs are done. I have thought about the heavy key action myself and will talk with Aaron about that.

While new to the sax, I have played various pro trombones since the mid 80s. My favorite trombone is a 1969 Conn 79H with a Rotax valve installed in place of the original rotor. At a glance it looks like the average 79H patina but has all the benefits of the modern valve.

There’s something in me that likes to take an item (trombone, car, vintage garden tractors, computers) and put my own unique touch. The 21 is no exception other than I will find a teacher and work on playing skills.

As to the great debate of Yamaha instruments - I know the drill from the brass world. I find the Xeno 882 large bore tenor trombones to be great playing horns that stand tall next to modular horns that cost twice as much or even more. Former Lead trombone player in The Airmen of Note Doug Elliott plays a Yamaha 354 student .500” bore tenor as his primary jazz horn. All of That says something in my book.

I think instruments are much like shoes - some fit me and others don’t so I go with what fits.

 

Dealing with some serious sax withdrawal while waiting for the repairs.

 

I could be wrong but I don't think a V-1 would even fit a YTS-21. I believe the tenon is too long. At least I know that's how it is was with my son's YTS-475 and my G-1 neck off my 875.

 

The tenon isn't the issue, though you may need to have the receiver adjusted for a proper fit. At least that's been the case with every Yamaha neck/horn combo I've ever tried. The issue is that the stem of the octave key mechanism, on the student horns, is flush with the neck receiver. The stems of the intermediate and professional models go beyond the receiver. Thus, when putting a pro neck on a student horn, the octave pip lever of the neck will not reach the mechanism stem of the body. To solve the issue, you'll either have to add to the stem to increase length, or you'll have to bend the neck's octave lever down. Unless you're using the neck on multiple horns, I find the latter solution to be preferable as you're only bending the lever by several millimeters.

 

I'm working on the patience thing as I wait for the work to be done. Winter has finally arrived and the time at home would be great for additional practice but that's not going to happen now.

 

Talked with Aaron yesterday and inquired about lightening the touch while he is working the magic on it. I cannot wait to try it it after the work is done.

Until then, I wait.

 

Just picked up the horn and spent some time getting reacquainted with it. I know understand how detrimental and discouraging leaks can be as an adult. Giving a beginner a leaky horn seems like setting them up to fail. I like the lighter touch on the keys and it is much easier to play. And it looks better too.

 

There she is! The sticker was my idea.

 

I finally got some time with the horn and it is much different than before. The practice session on Sunday was great but today’s attempt was abysmal. I will try again tomorrow. I do like the lighter key action and has a much different sound.

 

That is a minty 21 for sure. What was abysmal about your practice session?

 

It really is in nice condition - played but not abused which seems to be rare with any student horn. I'm lucky to have picked it up.

Grabbed the horn again yesterday and experienced the same challenges. I am afraid I messed up keywork or something when handling it. Low C to low A are elusive and it plays worlds different than the first time I took it out of the case. Used both the C* and the 10MFan Classic 6* with it and same struggles. I am afraid I need to make a trip back to the master and see what I did to it.

 

I doubt you did anything. It's probably a missing cork or small leak that was missed.

 

Dropping it off on Tuesday to get looked over.

 

The 21 went to the doc this morning and is back home. I bent the body vent tube with the cleaning swab after my first practice session... :disgust:

Aaron disassembled what was necessary, straightened the body, de-burred the vent tube, and re-soldered it for reassembly. I so appreciate the patience he has showed with this rookie with every visit.

Time to practice!

 

That vent tube scares me every time I swab it (I use a Hodge silk swab) - the swab can and has caught on the tube. I am also leery of putting the fluffy brush down the body.

However, the tube has remained intact for 13 years - when I first got my YTS-21 in 2007, the tube was loose and needed to be soldered.

 

A Hodge swab sometimes catches on my YAS-23 body octave vent. And I'm always very cautious, having once dislodged the vent on my Zephyr alto by swabbing.

 

I don't feel so bad about this after what Aaron told me and your responses. Sometimes the best lessons learned are also the lesson's I rather forget... this is one of those.

 

Wow! I got some time with it yesterday using the 10MFan Classic 6* mouthpiece and 2.5 Java Green reed and this is the easiest the 21 has ever played. Clearly the horn is no longer getting in the way and I now can hear my limitations. I think lessons might be on the radar sooner than later.

 

Another good practice session this morning and becoming keenly aware of my need for a teacher since the horn is no longer getting in my way.

 

I use a Hodge swab with good success. I pull it through very slowly so it can soak up the moisture. If you feel a swab catch on something stop and figure it out. The body vent tube is close to the top so you can slide the swab off of the tube with a pencil.

 

Maybe pulling it slowly is what I need to do, because I never see much moisture on the swab. I used to ball up the swab so that it'd make better contact inside the sax body, but that's what caused it to hang up on the octave tube.

Long ago, my swab was this large leathery patch (still got it): it would collect a lot of moisture - you could see it getting soaked - but I stopped using it because it was difficult to get past the tube. Then I switched to a synthetic cloth type swab and then the Hodge because it had so much more surface area. I'll have to try pulling it through slowly.

I wonder whether the fluffy brush does anything; it seems that it should. After playing, I remove the neck, put in the fluffy brush, and put small squares of paper towel material on the closed toneholes. After cleaning the neck and mouthpiece, etc., I remove the fluffy brush, run the swab three times, then remove the paper.

Actually, my YTS-21 is the only Yamaha I've looked down the neck of - I wonder whether later Yamahas still have this tube. I have no clue what Selmer, Yanagisawa, Conn, Martin, etc., did.

 

Another post-repair update...

I am slowly working at it and making progress. As much as I want to play songs, scales and intervals have been a fair amount of my focus. Getting my fingers to work independently is about as far from trombone as I can get short of playing piano. Also have been working on overtones up an octave while paying attention to intonation. This has helped my overall playing. And I have been very careful while swabbing it out and have used a pencil to loosen the swab around the vent. Lesson learned the hard way.

 

Never played a 21 model Yamaha but had some experience with a 23 alto which wasn’t my thing.
Having said that I just picked up a YTS100 which is basically a 23 Tenor.
This horn is quite good.
A little brighter than I’d normally like, but with a nice focus to the tone.
Keywork is far superior to the later 62’s etc with tilting tables.
Still a tight (far more suited to smaller fingers) layout, but still a nice feel.

 

Never played a 21 model Yamaha but had some experience with a 23 alto which wasn't my thing.
Having said that I just picked up a YTS100 which is basically a 23 Tenor.
This horn is quite good.
A little brighter than I'd normally like, but with a nice focus to the tone.
Keywork is far superior to the later 62's etc with tilting tables.
Still a tight (far more suited to smaller fingers) layout, but still a nice feel.

As a beginner with minimal time on other horns, I can't comment on much. I like the finger spacing but I don't have large hands - an octave on any keyboard is a stretch for me.

Best move was moving to a different mouthpiece and reed which kept the focus and yet rounded out the tone. But that's me...