It’s one of the more difficult notes to voice correctly. But to rule out a mechanical problem, can you confirm that the neck octave key remains fully closed and the body octave key opens when you play G?

Personally, I call that note high G, not middle. The next higher G is altissimo.

 

I will have another look at the mechanical aspect of it. But i think it's just a hard note to voice. I can do middle F, middle E, middle D no problem. But when I have to jump from silence into a middle G like 30-40% of the time the note starts off wrong and it sounds like a dieing goose or something. A god awful sound.

 

Is it jumping to a higher harmonic or is it wanting to play the lower octave g and sound like a motorboat?

 

It's just hard to start it off right and has a tendency to let out a shrill high pitched squak sound.

 

What @buddy lee said. Also what @lydian said.

Yes it’s harder to voice. You need strong belly support, maybe take a bit more mouthpiece in your mouth. Try adjusting the shape of your mouth internally (aka tongue position). But rule out the mechanical issues first.

Also, look at the neck ovtave key, finger low G, push the octave key and see if the neck key jumps. This could indicate a sticky body octave key.

On tenor especially this is the most unstable note on the saxophone, except maybe for the altissimo G3.

 

What @buddy lee said. Also what @lydian said.

Yes it’s harder to voice. You need strong belly support, maybe take a bit more mouthpiece in your mouth. Try adjusting the shape of your mouth internally (aka tongue position). But rule out the mechanical issues first.

Also, look at the neck ovtave key, finger low G, push the octave key and see if the neck key jumps. This could indicate a sticky body octave key.

On tenor especially this is the most unstable note on the saxophone, except maybe for the altissimo G3.

When you say 'the most unstable note on the saxophone' are meaning it's one of the most difficult to voice?

 

Unstable means wants to jump to a different pitch. Don’t bite, and try changing shape of the mouth cavity. But confirm the octave key is working properly first.

 

Check that the octave key on the neck isn’t opening, that the one on the body is closing and that your G# key isn’t opening.
Since you have your right hand free you could push on the neck octave key, the G# key or open the octave key on the body while you’re playing the G.

 

Unstable means it’s the easiest to make crack. Usually embouchure firmness and stronger breath support fixes it. By firmness I mean muscular firmness, NOT pressure on the reed. Tenser muscles, same or less jaw pressure.

If this started happening recently, and you didn’t change reeds or mouthpieces, suspect a leak or other mechanical issue. If you DID change those things, then you might need to adjust the way you blow, or try yet another change. If it’s been happening all along, then it’s likely you .

And yes, this note is notoriously wacky. This is because neither of the octave keys are in the correct place to make this note speak like, say, F.

 

From what the OP described it sounds more like a mechanical problem. I bet the problem is in the neck and or body octave keys or maybe the G# key.

 

I was playing some more last night and it just is a difficult note to voice. If my embouchure isn't a particular way and I don't use my stomach muscles to "jump" right into the note hard and fast it will easily let out a horrible shrill sounding pitch. I'm at work for the next couple of days but maybe I will post a video in this thread so you guys can hear what I am talking about.

 

What you describe might be all an embouchure issue, but it still could be a leak, likely one of the issues Whaler mentioned. I'd check for a mechanical issue, even take it to your tech (don't have one? find one) if you can't diagnose it, so you can either fix it or rule it out.

 

Middle G (G2) is a easily squeaky note on tenor for newbie. Another squeaky note is Middle D (D2). Do you have a teacher or you are self-taught? Seems like you just bought your tenor, did you get it checked/tuned up by a tech? Like others said above, you will need to rule out the possibility that the horn has leaks.

 

I'm using a rented YTS 200ADII and have a teacher (weekly lessons) I've discussed it with my teacher and he says it's just a hard note for tenor beginners. I'm going to be renting a YTS-23 soon so it will be interesting if this difficulty I am having persists.

 

That happens on my VI. Every mouthpiece and every reed, it always wants to make the dying goose sound or jump to the D. I was convinced that something was wrong with the horn, but indeed it really seems like I just have to change the embouchure a bit. Firmness is a good term, because I can keep my jaw loose as long as I keep the rest of the muscles firm, but if I get lazy it makes some sort of Viking war horn sound and feels like the reed is going to vibrate off the mouthpiece.

It was annoying, and I’m still working it out, but paying special attention to that note and doing long tones to get a good feel for it has worked wonders.

I think reed strength has something to do with it too. Too soft or too hard and that G wants to go nuts. I was using Rigotti Gold 2.5 soft, then I tried the 2.5 strong and they each yielded similar results. Then I went to 2.5 medium and it’s much more manageable. So it’s not that harder or softer is better, it’s really about finding the correct strength for you.

 

Viking war horn sound

Thats a really good way of describing it!

 

I have suffered this for several months with my Indiana tenors. It has gotten a lot better for me. I notice that it occurs as I am trying to do something new, or try to speed up beyond my abilities. I also catch myself biting as I tire or sometimes bump a palm key which will set it off. It never happens on my Buescher True Tone stencil using the same MP and reed as I use with the Indiana's and never with the Indiana alto. I have found that a lip out embouchure and mindfulness when I play a middle G or G# helps most.

 

When I’m lazy or tired, that note wants to go all Sanborn on me. Firming my embouchure (by that I mean firming the muscles, NOT putting more pressure on the reed), and paying attention to air support - these things fix it.

 

Did you have your teacher try playing that note on your horn? That might be helpful, one way or the other.

Good idea!

 

Here's a video describing what I've been getting from time to time. You can really hear it between 56 seconds and 1:15.

I had trouble recreating it this morning and thing maybe it's just my embouchure needing work.

 

More than embouchure, but yes that needs work. And “dying goose” is exactly the sound I hear, I don’t think your horn is out of adjustment. From looking at your video, three things stand out.

• Air support - make sure you are breathing from the belly and using your abdominal muscles to push air out. Too much tension in your shoulders and chest, not enough in your lower abdomen. And the air should be fast - not hard, but just more focused. Thinking of focus may help you with the embouchure….
• Firm up your embouchure - no more pressure on the reed, but flex those mouth muscles a bit. Think of a rubber band wrapped around the mouthpiece.
• Raise the neck strap about 1/2”. (1 - 1.5cm)

These are in order of importance. Good luck and let us know how things work out.

 

Regardless, a Saxophone Leak Light is under $10 on Amazon here in the USA. A nice one at Music Medic is something around $40 for the smaller one I have. It's worth getting one and putting it in the horn to see if anything is going on that shouldn't be.

It's not very rewarding or fun to try and overcome equipment issues when playing, and sure, you can learn to play through a leak, but why not take care of it (if there is one) and make things easier on yourself.

 

Thanks for posting. I'm seeing more of a weak, clarinet type embouchure, not much bottom lip cushion or muscular support, mostly biting. I'm hearing a small mouth cavity with tongue too high to voice this range correctly. Try opening up the mouth and throat as you would if yawning. Maybe take in a bit more mouthpiece as well. I agree with skeller about air support and raising the neckstrap. Also check out Steve Neff's post about the bottom lip:

The Best Saxophone Embouchure: Where’s That Bottom Lip?

The Best Saxophone Embouchure: Where's That Bottom Lip?

www.neffmusic.com

When you practice long tones, focus on making the sound as pretty and full as you can. It's harsh and uncontrolled right now.

 

I recently broke my noblet tenor so I’ve been having to use my schools mk6, it’s just about impossible to get the note out. I think certain horns are more prone to it than others and small mechanical problems can have a big effect on it.

 

After watching and listening to it... I don't think it's the sax anymore, it's your embouchure.

I was watching it on my phone and it looked like you were taking a breath and biting down just before playing the notes again. Try practicing in front of a mirror and see if that's the case.

 

I would check if your short tube C# is not leaking. This can be caused by the compression of the cork adjustment material on the C# bar (actuated be the B key and or the A key) or due to the post supporting the upper stack hinge rod near the A key needing some peening. The other potential issue is as many mentioned voicing. Your embouchure and larynx position has to aim for the fundamental of the note and not its upper partial/harmonics. A good practice trick here is to stick a pencil under your neck peephole key to keep it open while you use your throat/larynx to voice notes in the first octave of the horn. Once you learn how to voice the first octave, voicing the octave with or without using the octave key should come naturally. Hope this helps.

MG

 

Interesting about that pencil trick. Thanks!

 

one issue with middle G is that the octave pip is a compromise and on most horns is ideal for middle F. Thus, why people have issues with Middle D and G.

I would suspect that you would have the same issues with G# as well. Perhaps the G# key has a leak or weak spring? This could cause issues.

For me this note (and G#) will play the lower octave or motor boat between the two if I am not careful.

For me, I have to hear the note in my mind otherwise it will not speak properly.

 

I have to hear the note in my mind otherwise it will not speak properly.

Thank you for this!

 

Not just hearing it, but making the throat shape like you’re going to sing the pitch (doing everything short of actually audibly vocalizing the note) gets your throat and tongue in the right place/ shape. Our vocal tract (mouth and throat anatomy) is part of our instrument. People get all hung up on syllables, vowel shapes, and tongue positioning gymnastics to make things work when our body does it all naturally to simply sing a pitch in tune.

 

That happens on my VI. Every mouthpiece and every reed, it always wants to make the dying goose sound or jump to the D. I was convinced that something was wrong with the horn, but indeed it really seems like I just have to change the embouchure a bit. Firmness is a good term, because I can keep my jaw loose as long as I keep the rest of the muscles firm, but if I get lazy it makes some sort of Viking war horn sound and feels like the reed is going to vibrate off the mouthpiece.

It was annoying, and I’m still working it out, but paying special attention to that note and doing long tones to get a good feel for it has worked wonders.

I think reed strength has something to do with it too. Too soft or too hard and that G wants to go nuts. I was using Rigotti Gold 2.5 soft, then I tried the 2.5 strong and they each yielded similar results. Then I went to 2.5 medium and it’s much more manageable. So it’s not that harder or softer is better, it’s really about finding the correct strength for you

That happens on my VI. Every mouthpiece and every reed, it always wants to make the dying goose sound or jump to the D. I was convinced that something was wrong with the horn, but indeed it really seems like I just have to change the embouchure a bit. Firmness is a good term, because I can keep my jaw loose as long as I keep the rest of the muscles firm, but if I get lazy it makes some sort of Viking war horn sound and feels like the reed is going to vibrate off the mouthpiece.

It was annoying, and I’m still working it out, but paying special attention to that note and doing long tones to get a good feel for it has worked wonders.

I think reed strength has something to do with it too. Too soft or too hard and that G wants to go nuts. I was using Rigotti Gold 2.5 soft, then I tried the 2.5 strong and they each yielded similar results. Then I went to 2.5 medium and it’s much more manageable. So it’s not that harder or softer is better, it’s really about finding the correct strength for you.

Indeed I encounter the same problem on any tenor I have tried so far. It is definitely my own self problem...It likely happens when starting a phrase with middle G or from high D or C jumping to middle G. Loosening the lip pressure seems to be a way to resolve it but it will still appear when I play the G unintentionally.

 

BREATHE.

Visualize a continuous column of air from your navel, clear through the horn, out the bell, and splashing against the far wall.

Something like 90% of these kinds of questions we see, will resolve if you regularly practice long tones, from pppp to ffff and back over the full range of the horn, preferably outdoors far away from reflecting surfaces, doing this with INTENTION and ATTENTION.

The remaining 10% where there's actually some mechanical deficiency in the equipment, will be far less troublesome if you have your airstream in order.

 

G? The A & Bb above are undervented so they're sharp. G isn't a problem for me. Middle D is a pain. So is low D.

 

It is FUNNY that sometimes it also jumps out when leaping a middle C to middle G, the sudden leap of faster air steam perhaps jump the G to its overtone series...