he's saving you from bringing it back to him monthly and spending in repairs on what you should just save up for a proper horn.

 

I have had these discussions with many techs. Often these instruments are not well made and use inferior parts, sometimes with odd non standard specs. I have been told that they can pose a number of issues in trying to repair. I have heard of keys melting when they attempted to solder, others snapping off if they attempt to bend into adjustment. In many cases I have been told of nightmare situations where the time and cost of the instrument is far beyond the original cost of the instrument.

 

ok that makes sense but right now it's just a few pad leaks ...

 

You might ask him to replace the pads, with you understanding there is no warranty on the repair. That is why reputable repairmen are hesitant or refuse to work on them. The results are unreliable and if they make adjustments that may not "hold" and the horn won't play right. You might consider looking for a Yamaha YAS-23 used. You can probably find one for $500-$800, and repair guys will definitely work on them.

 

Or is it they are non standard and are harder to repair? But isn't that a good challenge?

Find an old used Yugo and take it to your local auto repair shop and see if they will enjoy the challenge!

 

BUT I'm looking for that one guy who still loves to repair cars and wants to be creative and would enjoy trying to figure it out ...

 

I've been told this nonsense too by repairmen. Guys who were good at what they do, but didn't want to work on my horn. I've had probably a good 20 or more "pro" horns in my possession over the years. I played a VI for about 16 years as my main horn. I ended up going through two early Taiwanese copies of Yanagisawas. I've played those two for the last 12 years or so. They caused me to sell my VI. I subsequently had at least another 3 VI's after that because I bought and traded a bunch wondering if there was "better" out there. And I'm sure they were all "better" from a repair person's perspective. But sound and playability, no chance. The horn I have now is by far and away the best horn for me I've ever had. It literally cost me more to ship it than the purchase price. My mouthpiece is more expensive than the horn. It's crazy. In my own want to find a version of it that would pass the brand test of repairmen and the like, I actually went through about 6 Yani's thinking that I'd get the branded one and it would be better. I even had a 9932J for a minute. It was beautiful, perfectly built, likely a repairman's dream. But it couldn't hold a candle to the sound of my el cheapo. So be it. That's what I play now. Fortunately, the repairman where I live is always up for a challenge and has progressively made all my horns better every time he touches them. He doesn't cringe when I come through the door with another experiment. I also will say, this horn for some reason, holds pad seat better than any horn I've ever owned as well. I don't fight it anymore and simply play. So, if you found a gem, hold on to it and just find someone who's willing to work on it. Only you know what's the best horn for you.

 

hey aakip now that's preachin' the truth! So glad you replied gives me gumption to just find a good man who'll work on it ... LOVE MY NO NAME HORN!

 

Be prepared if you find a tech who is ready to 'figure it out' - that takes time and time is money. How's your budget for repairs?

 

I am old enough to remember the 1970s when mechanics wouldn't touch Japanese cars. People called them junk, of course parts were harder to find for them. I can't imagine that there are that many parts on a sax that will ever need replaced besides pads, corks, and maybe springs. All of these are readily available. I still haven't even held a Chinese made sax. I have some Chinese made ukuleles and their quality seems great for the price.

 

I am old enough to remember the 1970s when mechanics wouldn't touch Japanese cars...

And I am old enough to have ridden Japanese motorcycles of that era. Compared to shifters, brake pedals, and clutch/brake levers on European motorcycles, parts would snap off instead of bending back to position.

I bought an unbranded alto sax for $180 and it was in excellent playing condition and sounded to my ears really good. Body alone weights 5 lbs feels solid, looks like very good workmanship, keywork clearly not as good as a brand name maker.

Took it to a highly qualified tech today to check it over, he took one look and shouted: "I DON'T WORK ON CHINESE HORNS!"

Instead of making a stink about it here, did you pause long enough to ask the tech why? There are numerous possibilities (ex. parts not holding adjustment or breaking, clients not willing to pay repair costs in excess of the horn's value), but facts would be useful too.

 

My tech has no problem working on them. And he's a really good tech. People send him stuff from all over the country.

 

Apparently some people get unhappy when repair costs more than a new horn, and expect the work to somehow cost less if it's a cheap horn (understandable but incorrect sentiment).

Even more so if they end up not liking the horn after repair. Or the repair may surface other problems, and the repair ends up even more expensive than normal due to some quality issues in the sax.

I do kinda understand taking cheap horns can be risky for business and perception & feedback the business gets. As there is slightly bigger chance of an unhappy customer in the end. It is also likely that the owner of a cheap horn is also cheap (or poor), which can bring troubles, like the customer may end up not being able, or unwilling to pay, just leaving the mostly worthless sax to the shop.

Not a chinese horn, but I've met some mild resistance and funny looks getting my Amati serviced. But after being very clear and assertive that whatever the market value or perceived quality of the sax is, that particular sax is very important almost priceless to me, and that I realize the repair makes zero financial sense, and that I know it probably won't be super good in the end anyway - They've been happy work on it. Although, some also told it is at least decently built, like no particularly nasty quality issues or shortcuts that might surprise a tech.

 

I had that discussion with some store owners before. I always point out that they are selling Chinese horns. I ultimately learned to fix my own horns. I have found that most Chinese horns have pads put in with just a blob of glue. Some corks are of poor quality. Repair people don't want to warranty the work, when the other parts might be unreliable. I gave up on Chinese horns, but do admit some where pretty good.

 

They use to be notorious for poor soldering work. Some repair people would end up with a bigger mess than the initial job. They might be better now. I hope.

 

true I had a pad cover come unsoldered when I tried to screw a screw in that was out ended up leaving it alone. Have not had an issue in 6 months since then, I think my fairy grandmother sent me this horn for $180? And sounds better (to me) than a Selmer SA80 i I played last week…

 

You don't have to spend a fortune but you shouldn't spend a pittance. I'm an inveterate researcher and have found, if you're patient and take your time, you'll find a fine horn at a reasonable price. Mouthpiece too!!! I've played some Chinese horns that were kind of laughable compared to some 'decent' horns. Do I have massive experience with the sax? No. But I have a lifetime of musical experience, live, studio, teaching (guitar)............Don't sell yourself short!

 

The main reasons:

• Repair costs comparable to the cost of the instrument, which often offends the customer
• Unavailability of repair parts, which forces the technician to fabricate them (time-consuming and therefore expensive)
• Uncertain quality of components leaves no guarantee that it'll hold adjustment, which leaves the tech with an angry customer returning later if it doesn't

No, this isn't "all" Chinese-built saxophones anymore, but many techs have learned that it isn't worth the risk to work on any of them (some prominent brands excepted) - especially those who have been around long enough to remember when nearly all instruments from China were unserviceable.

 

i have an early chinese straight soprano that sounds amazing-as good as any sop i have ever played but its keywork is so fragile it goes out of wack if you sneeze. you can bend the keys with your fingers

 

I'll bet if you look around you'll find someone else who would work on it. Or get a leak light, look at some youtube videos and learn to fix minor leaks yourself in about 2 minutes. My cheapie chinese horns were both pretty nice once I fixed the leaks. At 180 bucks why not DIY?

 

Took it to a highly qualified tech today to check it over, he took one look and shouted: "I DON'T WORK ON CHINESE HORNS!"

I have never met a qualified tech with such a reaction and behavior in my life. Instead of shouting some stupid thing like I don't work on Chinese horns, the tech could just go ahead to tell the customer that it is not worth it to get it repaired. I once brought a brand new BW sax to a tech bc of some issues, and he spent almost 20 minutes on it and then told me that it cannot be fixed and I better live with it or get it returned if possible (he didn't charge me anything for the 20 mins work). This is a good example of "qualified tech".

 

There will always be people in every hobby (etc) who speak glowingly of their cheap <insert thing here> like they’re somehow smarter than the rest of us who have chosen to be silly and invest money into proven products. The reality is that cheap saxophones are 99/100 times inferior for many reasons and I’m sorry if you can’t find a tech who will work on yours but IMO people here have provided valid reasons for not doing so.

 

The problem with investing in proven products can be illustrated by Conn. Their quality began to fall but their prices stayed high. They were selling on their name only. There are so many examples of this that it isn't funny.

 

The whole idea of techs 'not working on Chinese horns' is going to get harder and harder for them to stick to because several premium makers have been outsourcing to Taiwan and China for several years. Beyond that I say that attitude is elitist and not a viable business practice. it would be easy for them to simply say they of course will take the horn in but there will be no guarantee on the work or even if the work can be reasonably completed due to poor design and build. When you pay $200 for a new sax, you obviously will realize things like that without being told, so it would come as no surprise.

 

Techs will work on what they are comfortable working on. Its solely up to them, and it pretty much comes down to that.

How much of a twit they are about it is equally up to them. That goes for the owners too.

 

So to cap this discussion I took it to my friend Paul Maslin at PM Woodwind and he said it was one of the better Chinese saxes he's seen decent built quality for this class and was in very good playing condition only needed a G# key tweak (which he did for free as a favor) and he played it and said it played well no complaints. Only comment was though it sounded strong and clear it was"nondescript" because the metal used is certainly not the same as a Conn or Selmer or Yamaha or any fine maker. So It forces me to find more tonal complexity from very little raw material, not a bad exercise for developing my playing...

 

There is history behind this dislike of cheap Chinese horns. I own one, a soprano, and if were a tech I would strongly discourage its owner to spend any money on it. I would say something like “Sure, I’ll fix it. I require a $1000 deposit, because there is a strong likelihood that there will be hidden problems that will take many hours to fix.”

I say this because I am in the process of repadding my cheap Chinese soprano. When I took it apart, I found that two of the hinge rods were about 5mm too short. They were screwed in so that they engaged about 1/2 thread. About half of the pivot screws had poorly formed and damaged threads, which were hard to get out of the posts, and had to be replaced. The keys with pivot screws use what Music Medic calls a “false taper” - a tapered screw fit into a cylindrical hole. Slack taken up by strands of oiled pad leather. Etc, etc, etc.

This is why some techs refuse to work on these cheap saxophones. I don’t blame them, I’m going to continue working on mine to see if I can actually make it into a playable instrument. But I’m retired and have the time and tools, and it’s fun.

On another topic, @doozer and @liggy please knock it off. You are both making this thread unpleasant, and helping to discredit this forum and its reputation. If this were a bar, you’d both be 86’ed.

[EDIT] - @Petrofied I’m glad you got it sorted out. Hopefully my explanation will help others. And thanks liggy

 

Please try to stay on subject!
Thank you fellas.

 

As I've mentioned before I work on acoustic pianos. There is a similar attitude about Chinese pianos. The early ones from the seventies were not good quality but there has been a steady improvement since then.
The biggest piano manufacturer in the world is Pearl River which has a huge factory.
They make the Essex model for Steinway.

 

The other issue is that the tech may have all the work he wants and when an instrument is made badly it can be a very time consuming and frustrating experience to work on it. Especially when you feel an obligation to stand behind your work. I get that Paul said its decent but some guys are not going to take the time. I know there are a few mouthpieces I refuse to work on. They are either poorly made beyond words, poorly designed, or from poor materials. They really cant be made into something decent. So I wont waste my time or my customers money. If I cant be happy with the result I wont take in the work.