I play a lot of bass clarinet, recently, for instance, with the Albany Symphony at Williams College for some performances of Lili Boulanger's setting of Psalm 130. When I was young and merely a doubling bari player, my Bundy (now Selmer USA) was good enough. Now I play a Buffet 1193 Prestige low C. It is a great instrument and makes me want to play bass more and more. If you can, I would suggest holding out for a good pro horn. The 1193 was $7200 when I bought it, however. If you must do it now and go for less, I find the Bundy to the best of the plastic instruments, although there are lots things about the keywork that I don't like. Most of all, get a great mouthpiece/reed setup. Clark Fobes makes good ones, but my favorite is Walter Grabner. Bass clarinet reeds are not good right now, and I'm back to blue box VanDoren and working on them.

 

I'll go along with danarsenult on this one. I also play a Buffet Prestige down to low C, mind you I played various plastic ones before I got it. I found the plastic Bundy ok, in fact most of the plastic ones are ok, not fantstic just ok!I think a majority are made in the same factory but with a different makers stamp on them. I, personally would stay with the Selmer and get it set up by a good tech, basses are known to be pigs to keep in balance. Then get a good mouthpiece. I've not long purchased a Lomax, but before that I played a modified Vandoren B44. Try as many as you can. You'll be surprised on what a difference a good mouthpiece/reed set-up can make to your overall sound. Most of all keep at at it, I went thru a phase many years ago where I could have thrown the damn thing out the window coz it sounded and felt c**p. I changed the mouthpiece and reeds and bingo,what a difference.

 

Ideally I would get a low C but I really don't know how often I'm going to use a bass clarinet. At this stage it is really just something nice to have. Also I have read that a lot of pro's get by with a plastic bass. I think I'm going for the middle of the road here if I get the Selmer Paris with Ab/Eb key and articulated C#/G#. That's the way I am leaning now. It would also make a nice match with my full-boehm soprano clarinet

What I will most likely use it for is improvised music. I'm uncertain as to whether I will ever use it in an orchestral situation (where low C would be most likely used), not that I'm against it, it's just that kind of opportunity has never arisen for me.

 

I'll jump on this bandwagon too. Dan's recommendation of Buffet 1193 as an ideal choice is accurate, but it's crazy expensive and I hear they are really hard to find right now (new or used). I haven't played a Bundy bass or other plastic basses, so I have no idea what they are like.
For the difference in cost, it might make sense to buy the Bundy and learn to play bass clarinet on it (it's different than soprano clarinet). You'll probably want to upgrade at some point. If you go with the Selmer, you might never need to upgrade unless you need to get a low-C bass. It's a bigger financial outlay, however.
It sounds like the Selmer might need to have adjustments. The variability in response is quite possibly leaks.
Absolutely, look for a good mouthpiece. I play a Grabner, and I've been very happy with it. He makes several different models. On soprano clarinet I play a Clark Fobes mouthpiece - I've never played his bass clarinet mouthpiece, but their reputation is very good.
As for reeds, I've had luck with Gonzalez bass clarinet reeds.

 

That's a good point about upgrading. I may never need to upgrade if I get the Selmer.

I asked the tester whether it needed adjusting and he reckoned not (he also is a tech). He compared it to his Selmer Paris Eb bass of around the same vintage but without the extra keys, and he said his horn was slightly easier to blow. I guess this is just a characteristic of the horn.

 

Ooooh, an Eb bass. Unless they have finally gotten around to renaming the true bass of the clarinet family (which currently goes by the "contra-alto clarinet" moniker), you are probably talking about an Eb alto, aka "the Great Satan" of clarinets. Be afraid, be very afraid.

For my answers to your questions, see my posting on the Clarinet board.

 

Ooooh, an Eb bass. Unless they have finally gotten around to renaming the true bass of the clarinet family (which currently goes by the "contra-alto clarinet" moniker), you are probably talking about an Eb alto, aka "the Great Satan" of clarinets. Be afraid, be very afraid.

For my answers to your questions, see my posting on the Clarinet board.

Thanks Terry. By Eb bass I was actually referring to a Bb bass going down to Eb. I have decided to go for the Selmer after all. The "full-boehm" option was too hard to resist. Thanks for the replies.

 

I would say take the Selmer and get it set up properly. Basses can be shut down by the slightest leak. It'll be a different horn after a set up. Nothing wrong with low Eb horns especially for jazz.. much easier to play standing and better projection..Eric Dolphy didn't sound too bad ditto John Surman.
I have a Buffet Prestige to low Eb and it projects better than the 1193 I had although I think the 1193 is a great horn. I wish Buffet offered a 2 neck option like Selmer though ' cause the straight up " correct" angle is uncomfortable to play standing.

 

That's interesting about Dolphy and Surman. The seller also alluded to this by saying that if money was not an issue he would have kept both horns, the low C bass for ensemble work, and low Eb for jazz.

 

I'd say he was right.. the low C is a gas to play no doubt and ideally yes have both but the Eb is best for playing standing and I think the horn projects better.. they feel like two different instruments much like low Bb and low A baritone. There are always exceptions though..Bennie Maupin has always played low C bass and I love his playing with Miles and Headhunters.

 

When I saw Bennie Maupin he played a bass clarinet in A!!

About the low C vs. low Eb, I played a lot of Buffets and Selmers of both models and other than the lowest notes on the low Eb horn (plus the 12ths above), there weren't any differences in projection and sound. I have a low C bass and use a long peg to play standing up (back problems makes it a little hard to play sitting) but there is always a voice in the back of my mind telling me to buy a low Eb bass too...... There is a big difference in weight.

My favorite bass clarinetist (and imho the best in the world currently) Louis Sclavis plays both low C and low Eb basses. I think he plays low Eb always unless it is absolutely necessary to play low C (since his clarinet trio played the same model basses maybe each just played the one he needed). Another really great (maybe my second favorite) bass clarinetists Denis Colin plays only low Eb as far as I know. I remember some players Henri Bok and Michael Lowenstern swear by low C bass clarinets. I've never found myself thinking about those missing 3 notes when listening Louis Sclavis or Denis Colin. I also never thought about those notes as an advantage when listening to Bok or Lowenstern. One player who really uses those low notes in a great way (i.e. playing it on a low Eb bass would not be anywhere as good) is Armand Angster.
But, everyone should decide for themselves if they need the low notes, and be complete with their decision so they don't regret it later.

The fact that a Selmer Paris and a Bundy play the same is very surprising. Does the Selmer have a double register mechanism? I have played some bad instruments with a double register mechanism (for example an old Orsi) but not Selmers! I think that probably the best value for the money is the older Selmers, which play great but their age/condition make them not very expensive (a new one is over $6,000). I actually don't like the sound and especially the keywork of the Selmers, but still that is my opinion!

"He also played his low C Selmer as a comparison. It sounded more fuller, bigger and darker. We agreed that it can be considered a different instrument from the Eb."

Is his low C Selmer a newer instrument? If it is then it is not surprising at all it sounded different. Selmer changed their design a lot over the years. Their new low Eb bass is also completely different than one from the 70s (at least the ones I played).

 

When I shopping for basses, I played an Eb Selmer bass (model 32, I think) that had been traded in to Rayburns for a low C by the bass player at BSO. It had been overhauled by Emilio (yes, red leather pads), and was fairly astonishingly good. He asked $3200 but I got him down to $2500 by the time I decided to go with the 1193.

 

Is his low C Selmer a newer instrument? If it is then it is not surprising at all it sounded different. Selmer changed their design a lot over the years. Their new low Eb bass is also completely different than one from the 70s (at least the ones I played).

I'm not sure how old the low C was.

The fact that a Selmer Paris and a Bundy play the same is very surprising. Does the Selmer have a double register mechanism?

Yes it does have the double register mechanisim. The Selmer was still the better instrument and worth the extra cost, but the Bundy played surprisingly well for the money.

 

When I saw Bennie Maupin he played a bass clarinet in A!!

But, everyone should decide for themselves if they need the low notes, and be complete with their decision so they don't regret it later.

I had a low-Eb Buffet and was very happy with it. Then I had the opportuntity to buy a low-C Buffet (I still have the low-Eb also). I've used the low-C bass in pit orchestras and clarinet choir, plus some solo work. I've used the bottom notes often enought to be glad that they are available. The low-Eb bass hasn't come out of the case since I bought the low-C 1 1/2 years ago.
If I was playing only jazz, or if I never needed the bottom notes, the low-Eb would probably be fine. I was really enjoying mine until I got spoiled by my new low-C bass.
I've found the low D note to be the most commonly needed, with occasional need for low Db and C. One thing that takes some time is getting used to the low notes fingerings.

 

If I was playing only jazz, or if I never needed the bottom notes, the low-Eb would probably be fine. I was really enjoying mine until I got spoiled by my new low-C bass.

I play almost only modern/free jazz and improvised music, and I use the low D Db and C all the time.

 

..is the neck angle style Michel Portal using easily available ?

He's the one on the right .

 

(This was also posted to a couple of other clarinet forums)

Clarinet forums? Where??

 

sneezy.org

We had our own "clarinet-on-the-web" forum for a brief time, but there were some technical issues with it (we're also talkin' phpBB).

Regarding this topic, I've played Bundy plastic and wooden models. I've also played an older Buffet (to Eb) and a couple old Vitos.

The one in Tryp's post has a neck simular to the wooden Bundy I played. It's probably *not* one in that pic, tho, so I'd say, "Look at pro Selmers".

 

I'm wondering if the neck option Michel is using is Selmer's or if that's one
of Charlie Bay's creations ?

 

I'm almost positive that the neck Michel Portal uses is the neck from Selmer. He plays an older model which probably came with this neck. For the new Selmers they now offer two different necks, one more straight and one more curved. I think the necks of the models 37 and Privilege are interchangable. Also, it is not that hard to change the angle of the neck. I'm guessing that for someone like Michel Portal Selmer wouldn't even mind making a completely new neck. But, in my university we have a slightly older Selmer (before the model 35 but I think newer than Portal's, because it doesn't have that metal bump on the top front) and if I remember correct the neck angle is about the same as Portal's.