We have Ramsa 10 in. mains that are put up on stands to the side and behind and a sub that the head sits on in the middle.
Since we have no monitors we tilt the mains in toward us some. We don't play loud enough to get feedback.
Everyone goes through the board (keys, bass, guitar, vocals, horns, percussion and kick). Only the bass and kick go through the sub.
Except for the drummer we all have submixers. We get a balanced sound with good control and less individual turning up which unbalances the mix.
We usually are a quartet: Bass(guitar & standup)/singer, keys/horns/hand percussion, guitars & guitar synth/backup singer and drums/percussion.
We play latin/jazz/raggae some blues/rock and some novelty songs. Some originals.

 

Thanks, It's something I might try at our next gig

 

Yeah, you could also try to start by lowering the main gain level. And maybe then you could try having the main speakers behind and to the side of the the band and get away with using them as temporary stage monitors also. Two small 10 or 12 inch wedges can work miracles for you especially your sax chops. Playing against electrics like guitars and loud keyboards is hard and a real headache. Drums even more so. Last resort is a good pair of in ear monitors for yourself with a good low and high end. I have westone ear monitors and custom molded ear plugs sometimes I dont want to hear nothing jajaja. Rock gigs are fun but rough on the ears man. Best wishes and good luck ok.

 

First, I'd say not having a sound guy is far better than having a poor sound guy (who is constantly fiddling with the dials, etc), but that's a separate topic.

Regarding FOH speakers, my band has done it both ways. When there's room, we'll put the FOH to the side and in front of the bandstand, using one or two monitors on stage (usually just one wedge, but a good one). In some clubs there just isn't room to put the FOH speakers out front so I raise them fairly high and put them behind us and to either side. No feedback issues as long as you don't point the mics directly at the speakers, and keep the volume under control (see below).

I think the trick to making do without a sound person, is to have a band member walk out front and listen the mix at some point early in the first set. Since I'm on sax and can leave the stage when I'm not playing, I'll usually do this, checking the balance between vocals and the band, etc. Of course I can't check the sax, but I have a pretty good idea how to dial it in, relying on the monitor.

The other 'trick' is to not play at extremely high volume!!! I know with some bands that won't be an option, but I'm glad I don't have to play with such bands often. And of course to some extent it depends on the type of music. We play blues, jump blues, 'soul' jazz, etc. That type of music is not meant to played at hard rock volume and we keep the volume reasonable. Which helps a lot in controlling the overall sound.

 

This scenario describes us most of the time, I'm usually the one that walks out and listens - maybe I should do it a bit more often

As far as people saying I can hear _____ , I think it depends on who they what to hear the most. People who love the hons want more, poeple who love vocals, want more of that, etc down the line. Whle we listen to our fans I use my own judgement in the end.

It usually comes out well. Remember the saying about too many cooks in the kitchen..............

Yep that's true, everyone has an opinion and expectations I guess on how a band should sound!

Nothing wrong with using the mains as 'side fills'. I had good luck with a band I played with using two 'mains' toward the audience, and two 'side fills' with the same mix as the mains (just used the main out L for the mains and main out R for the 'side fills'). That way, if you run into feedback problems, you can drop the level of the 'side fills'. If you need more monitors with a different mix, put a wedge here and there with a 'monitor' mix.

Thanks Hak, I have enough gear to try that out, could be a goer

 

In the two bands I play in they both do it differntly. The jazz quartet places the small pa speakers behind the band, because the volume level is fairly low and constistant that works for them. In the other eight piece band they do modern covers and are much louder. They use the traditional sitting large speakers (15" and a horn) on either side of the band and to very decent powered monitors up front. While the band is louder than the jazz group, it is not what I would consider loud. No one complains about the volume.

As far as people saying I can hear _____ , I think it depends on who they what to hear the most. People who love the hons want more, poeple who love vocals, want more of that, etc down the line. Whle we listen to our fans I use my own judgement in the end.

It usually comes out well. Remember the saying about too many cooks in the kitchen..............

 

Nothing wrong with using the mains as 'side fills'. I had good luck with a band I played with using two 'mains' toward the audience, and two 'side fills' with the same mix as the mains (just used the main out L for the mains and main out R for the 'side fills'). That way, if you run into feedback problems, you can drop the level of the 'side fills'. If you need more monitors with a different mix, put a wedge here and there with a 'monitor' mix.

 

As JL said - see if someone can get out in front while the band is playing to check the mix. Our bass player usually does our sound on small gigs, and he and I our other horn player have gone wireless. So we will each try to get out front during the first tune or two to check the mix. We try to turn the FOH in a bit towards the band to serve as monitors. Plus our guitars, bass, and keyboard are playing through the backline so that serves as their monitors, and the horns might bring a small amp (KC150) to serve as our monitor. And there is never a problem hearing the drums