Well Steve Marcus and Lenny Pickett both have bright but totally different sounds in my opinion.

Lenny is laser Beam Bright and Steve is more like Spotlight bright but the spotlight gets brighter the higher he goes.

Lenny uses a Berg and I think Steve (RIP) used a Otto Link.

But any good bright high baffled piece can get you a sound like either of the.

Dukoff, Jody Jazz, Otto Link (good ol' STM), Vandoren V16...

There's lots of options out there.

 

You are already playing on a bright mouthpiece, so switching will probably be more of a lateral move. Guardala Kings and Super Kings are very bright, but they only come in one tip opening that may be too wide for you.

I think most of what you want will need to come from embouchure development.

 

Thanks for the replies! I appreciate it!

littlewailer:

I agree, they definitely have a different sound, i was more so generally addressing their bright, powerful tone.

Thanks for the mpc info. I had heard that Pickett used a berg, which had originally enticed me to check out the mouthpieces.

MojoBari:

I had tried looking up the chamber/baffle on my B-LA 8 (just to make sure it's not getting confused, this is the newer model of Brilhart with the Selmer name), but was unsuccessful, so i had no idea as to how bright my mouthpiece was already.

Do you think you could elaborate on what you said about embouchure, with maybe some tips as well? I'm not sure where to start if that is the case (a strengthening of embouchure). I'm still getting a dull tone even though i have pretty good control and air flow on the mpc. I really wanted to try some of the upper level mpc's to see if its just me or the mpc. I certainly dont want the work done for me, but i was just curious as to what's limiting me: the hardware or myself.

THANKS again for the replies!

 

For a brighter tone, I think airstream speed seems to do the trick, but you need good breath support to keep it from getting thin. There's a few threads recently that talk through some of this - not sure what to search on, but people describe the oral cavity position in varying ways (and I think they are describing something similar)... the "eeeeee" mouth position is the way I think of it.

On those newer Brilharts, didn't they come with a removeable baffle? I seem to recall they did. I tried one a while back, and it was OK... a little dull with out a lot of projection without the baffle in, and with it in it was a bit better but still didn't have a ton of power for me.

Others have suggested good mouthpieces for what you are talking about.... there's a wide variety to choose from in the "bright" category... you don't have to spend a ton of money. You can also check out the Vandoren Jumbo Javas and the Rico metalites for some budget mouthpieces in that vein. Other mouthpieces with a bright sound include Dukoff "D" or "S" chambers, Guardala Super King, King, and Studio pieces, Ponzol M2, Runyon Bionix, Jody ESP or DV, Barone Fusion, RPC "B", Lamberson DD, Saxscape Downtown or Red River, Wanne Kali, etc, etc, etc... there's a ton out there!

Of the Bergs, keep in mind they have different baffles available... denoted by the number after the "/" when you look at the model, and the first number is the tip opening.... the baffles are (from darkest to brightest) 3,2,1,0. So, for example, a 105/3 would be a nice jazz piece (and I think what Sonny Rollins plays on), while Lenny Pickett plays on something like a 130/0.

If you otherwise like the way your mouthpiece plays, you can also just put in your own baffle... use poster putty or dental wax for a long-lasting but removable option.

Good luck!

Pete

 

I used to play a #8 Levelaire just like yours in bands for about 10 years. I had no issues with power or brightness., especially if I used the smaller of the two baffles.I also enjoyed the tone w/o the baffle- it had a fuller tone. I like the Fibracells on the Brilhart and also used baritone size Bari plastic reeds(medium). I have two Bergs- a 130/2 and a 115/0, both refaced by Mojo. The 115/0 is brighter than the Brilhart, the 130/2 has a more focused sound but not brighter. May I suggest trying out some alternative reeds first? It would be alot cheaper. I liked the flexibilty of the Brilhart, due to the baffles, and I would still play it on gigs if I had to. In fact, occasionally I do just that.
My main pieces now are a Ponzol Stainless Steel 110 M2 and a 130/2 Berg. I am used to bigger openings now, but could easily adjust back to the Brilhart if need be.

 

First of all there are great responces on this thread,

I'd suggest the obivious, TRANSCRIPE BOTH. Start with simple passages then see which part of their sound and " time" appeals to you.

NEXT, Grab a Link 7 and send it to John Reilly in LA. Ask him to put a small baffle into it. That will get close to where Marcus was. Try RJS 3M reeds and use unfiled.

Listen to Bert Wilson- Lennys teacher. That will glue the ideas in your mind with Pickett and Marcus. You'll see what I mean- when you start buying his CDs.

Then- to get more on top of Marcus time-feel....Transcribe or buy a few books of Trane solos from the Blue Trane, Kind Of Blue and Coltrane/ Stardust eras. Mracus was a great harmonic Trane guy...knew the lines and is more heartfelt that some of the later carbon copy guys. Yes- heartfelt. Marcus can rip your soul out when he plays a ballad.

PICKETT, Check out his solos on " Soul Vax"...or early " easy" stuff before the later.


I like your thinking, your into a good mindset. Have fun.

 

HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR PLAYING IN 6 STEPS!!
(Proven results guaranteed!!!)

1. FIND THE BEST TEACHER IN YOUR AREA. (preferably JAZZ saxophone)

2. Call him (or her) up

3. Say "I'm really serious about learning jazz tenor & specifically, my sound. I'm really drawn to the sounds of Lennie Pickett & the late Steve Marcus."

4. Then say "Do you have time to schedule a lesson (or more) with me? What do you charge?"

5. Then, go to your lesson & follow their advice.

6. Finally, TURN OFF THE INTERNET.

Its ALWAYS better to consult an experienced COMPETANT & KNOWLEDGABLE teacher than asking people on a internet message board. (Even Tim Price can only give you so much, w/o being able to hear or see you play to make APPROPRIATE suggestions)

 

HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR PLAYING IN 6 STEPS!!
(Proven results guaranteed!!!)

1. FIND THE BEST TEACHER IN YOUR AREA. (preferably JAZZ saxophone)

2. Call him (or her) up

3. Say "I'm really serious about learning jazz tenor & specifically, my sound. I'm really drawn to the sounds of Lennie Pickett & the late Steve Marcus."

4. Then say "Do you have time to schedule a lesson (or more) with me? What do you charge?"

5. Then, go to your lesson & follow their advice.

6. Finally, TURN OFF THE INTERNET.

Its ALWAYS better to consult an experienced COMPETANT & KNOWLEDGABLE teacher than asking people on a internet message board. (Even Tim Price can only give you so much, w/o being able to hear or see you play to make APPROPRIATE suggestions)

I don't disagree with this, but it's a little bit trite, don't you think? His opening remark was "aside from the obvious need for a lot of (tone) shaping and critique", and he was specifically asking for mouthpiece advice.

How do we know he doesn't already have a "COMPETANT & KNOWLEDGABLE" (sic) teacher?

Perhaps we could save everyone time by just having a "shut up and practice" auto-answer bot after the first post in every thread.

Can't we sometimes just answer the question asked?

Pete

 

My advice to all SOTW'ers (with whatever horn & mpc you got):


SHUT UP & PRACTICE!!!!!!!

 

My advice to all SOTW'ers (with whatever horn & mpc you got):

SHUT UP & PRACTICE!!!!!!!

Don't feed the troll.

 

After its too late to practice am I allowed to wonder all things saxophone?

 

The newer Selmer Brilhart LAs are made by Runyon. The number on the side indicates the tip opening using a Runyon scale. An 8 on tenor would be close to .094".

 

Thanks again for all of your thoughtful responses guys!

This is a lengthy reply to specific people, but anyone is welcome to add their 2 cents concerning the subject matters!

Sactopete: Thanks for the thorough response(s)! To address the baffle inserts to my current mouthpiece, yes, it did originally come with 2 removable baffles, but due to my purchasing of it at a fairly early time in my saxophone career, i have lost them due to my naive upkeeping (or lack thereof).

I think a primary issue with this whole sound thing is that not only is the idea of "bright" arbitrary, but everyone's own individual concept of "bright" is also arbitrary as well, so it makes it incredibly difficult to distinguish what sound is what. People are saying my current mouthpiece is "bright", but i dunno how well that compares to the "brightness" of other mouthpieces. Would you say my mouthpiece can reach the brightness achieved by Pickett or Marcus?

I'm sure i could certainly work on some airflow and embouchure issues (thanks for the advice btw, any more is appreciated as well) if it's possible to achieve said sound with my current mouthpiece and i'm still having problems getting it, but would you say its more on the mouthpiece side, or my own personal abilities? If it's more of the mouthpiece, Do you think it's primarily the baffle that's the issue?

Could you also maybe give me a bit more detail as to the do-it-yourself baffles?

Also, do you think those other mouthpieces suggested would make a significant enough difference to start to consider a switch, especially for how expensive they can be? I know that this decision can largely be dependent on specific users, but i was wondering if there was a safe generality. From what others have suggested, what would you guess be the best match for me?

So many questions, i know, but the more answers I have, the more informed of a decision I can make, and I appreciate any help! Also, thank you for trying to answer my questions as best you can instead of blowing me off!

Honeyboy: Thanks for sharing your experience with the LevelAire AND the Bergs, that helps a lot! Where you able to achieve a really good, bright sound with the LevelAire? Also, do you really think a different reed (softer/harder/diff brand) would really change the sound that drastically? Of course, every little bit helps, but i was wondering if that would be large enough to really help fix my overall problem.

Tim Price: Thanks for the suggestions with transcribing, that's also a great way to start working on my sound. And thanks for letting me know about Bert Wilson, i'll make it a point to check him out!

SopAlto1: Short, and to the point...i guess i could use the help of a pro teacher/private lessons, thanks for the suggestion! One on one work is definitely an important step in this process, but i also like getting other opinions about this whole mouthpiece business first.



If anyone else has any other suggestions or comments, keep them coming! THANK YOU EVERYONE!

 

You can order the baffles from Runyon, the makers of that mouthpiece. You will definitely hear a difference in the tone with the baffles. Without the baffles, it is somewhat darker sounding, which is one thing I liked about it. Sometimes it was too bright for me with the baffles, so I would take it out and get a thicker tone, which was more appropriate for certain events and styles of music.

I make baffles from dental wax, available at drug stores and drug sections of food stores. I make a pea sized ball, and push it onto the existing baffle about 1/4 inch from the tip, then kind of blend it in so it adds a bit of a step and a drop off down towards the chamber. This basically just adds some height to the existing baffle, helping the air to push faster, kind of like putting your thumb over the end of a hose.

I really don't think the mouthpiece itself will keep you from getting Lenny Pickett's sound. He is a real altissimo kind of guy and I have found the Brilhart is actually one of the easiest mouthpieces I have to achieve altissimo notes. Not too many guys are as good at altissimo stuff as Lenny Pickett. That requires alot of practice. I suggested different reeds because they certainly do have a major effect on how a mouthpiece sounds. Here is a bit of a truism, based on my experience. One can achieve lots of tonal variations with most mouthpieces. I can get a bright, edgy sound with most medium size bore mouthpieces, it is a bit easier with higher baffles. I can put a dental wax baffle in a large chamber NY Otto Link Supertonemaster and get that thinner, edgier tone you are describing. Try the reeds first, like #3 Fibracell, medium Bari plastic, both tenor size and baritone size, Plasticover Ricos, # 3 Vandoren ZZ's or Javas, etc. The reed, both brand and individual reeds within brands, make a big difference as far as tone goes. You might be surprised, and you will save some money over buying a new mouthpiece.

In conclusion, I play the Brilhart Levelaire, Dukoff D7, D8, Berg larsen 130/2, 115/0,Ponzol M2 110, Otto Link NY (w/ the added baffle), have played Guardala King and Super King, SR Tech Pro, Vandoren V-16, Vandoren Jumbo Java, Rico Royal Metallite and lots more, all of which are high baffle pieces, and I don't sound like Lenny Pickett. If, however, I wanted to, any of these mouthpieces would not be a deterrant to me achieving that goal. If I wanted to sound as close as possible to him, I would learn his phrasing, try to cop his energy, his feeling, and learn how to get really proficient at play altissimo, as if it was simply a normal extension of the sax. Incidently, he gets most of his notes from embouchure changes and throat changes, not so much special fingerings. Have fun in your quest.

I just pulled out the Levelaire, put on a Fibracell #3 Reed on my '53 The Martin and started blowing. Here's my obsevation- it is very bright and loud, in fact, brighter than the Ponzol M2 and Berg 130/2. It is about as bright as the Berg 115/0 and this is without the baffle! I forgot how bright it really is! I guess my tonal preference has shifted to less bright over the years. This one almost hurts my ears!!

 

Reeds can make a huge difference. I would say that you need to record yourself a lot so you can decide if you are getting closer towards your goals. Listen to Lenny a lot and get his sound burned into your brain. I spent a lot of time transcribing him and it gave me loads of tools to use in jazz and R&B. I would aslo agree that if you work a lot on altissimo it will help you to shape your overall sound on the brighter side. I play bright on any mpc because thats just my cocept and airstream. I have plenty of fatness in my sound because i play on medium large to large chamber pieces and have good air stream but my airstream fills in the blanks and gets me the higher harmonics in my sound. I also have gotten to the point where I hit my altissimo about 90 percent of the time clean. I can play chromatically up to a G4 and on a good day I can go even higher.

 

I was fortunate enough to come across a Berg 130/0/offset SMS that Brian Powell did his magic on. I can hear how Lenny uses a similar piece. Clear sound and plenty of volume, brightness but also full sounding.

Do I sound like him? Only if I bite down on the reed, and then it's only for milliseconds. But I do enjoy the piece a ton and would like to transcribe some of his stuff using this piece to see if I can achieve his thing.

 

Lenny looks like he plays loose across 6-7 octaves!

 

keeping your embochure loose helps to keep the higher notes from thinning out. i always try to consciously play relaxed the higher i go. i've heard similar advice from trumpet players