Hope everyone is doing well this fine day!

I've been up to my head in the 100000 ways to improve my sax playing lately, and I've felt overburdened by a lot of the things I've been trying to do on top of my lessons and recordings.

So, I wanted to ground myself a bit and I realized I've never done something most all of you probably have - Learn a tune in and out. Like I've memorized nothing musically, and only ever read my sheets of the standards. Sure, I spent some rather extensive time learning the blues changes last year - which was probably the biggest step forward in my development ever, but I still have to read a head if I want to play it. So I want to recreate upon this development, but I want to expand as well.

My goal: Learn 10 jazz standards this year - memorizing the head and changes, transcribing multiple solos for each, and finally, developing my own melodic concept/solo.

I was hoping SOTW would aid me in this journey, by helping me build a list of the songs it would be most beneficial to work. Here is my current plan, but I'm open to any suggestions:
Autumn Leaves
All The Things You Are
Lester Leaps In (Learn Rhythm Changes!)
Take the 'A' Train
Impressions (Learn Modal Jazz Concepts)
Cherokee (Bebop Concepts)
Misty
Giant Steps
Blue Bossa
Take Five (or another non 4/4 tune)

I am working on a similar practice routine this year, although at perhaps a somewhat more advanced level, since I have already memorized the changes and heads to dozens of standards many years ago. But I don't know every chord tone in all of those changes inside and out like the back of my hand. I think my new practice routine I started last November would probably be beneficial to you as well. I have been following the practicing strategies that Chad Lefkowitz Brown has been posting on his YouTube page and I also downloaded a few of his practicing materials from his website, jazzlessonvideos.com. I feel like I am finally beginning to master all of those changes inside and out, and practicing has become fun and exciting again. After practicing the standards in a couple of Chad's ebooks, I am finding amazing things popping out in my solos that are far more technically and harmonically advanced than anything I ever played before I started this practice routine. My favorite is Chad's 4 Tune Learning Exercises on 20 standard chord progressions. This ebook gives you 4 different ways of practicing through the changes of 20 jazz standards and after I practice all 4 of the ways of practicing a standard, I then go and solo on that standard and all kinds of wonderful things are coming out in my solos that I never dreamed of before I started using this ebook. I have also been using Chad's ebook 67 Pentatonic Phrases, and this has also been a game changer for me. Chad gives an introduction to these materials on his YouTube channel;

 

Normally I wouldn't up and buy a new book to practice from so quickly, but this guy sold me pretty quickly. I watched that first video you linked, and decided I could definitely benefit from practicing the content he described. Now to somehow find time to work on this in addition to everything else I have laid out in front of me...

 

I'd think about types of tunes (which you have done to some extent):

ii-V-I tunes
12 bar blues
minor blues
Rhythm changes
Circle of fifths tunes (rhythm changes covers a bit of this in the bridge, but I'm thinking of tunes like All of Me, Bill Bailey, Dinah, etc.)

I'd also go back well before bebop in learning tunes, to get that grounding. Like most people who started playing after 1970, I had this idea that jazz really started with Bird and Diz and all that older stuff was just weird corny stuff - but actually it's the basis for bebop and everything that follows. So for example, on some of the tunes you listed above:

Lester Leaps - go back to Lester's solos and the Basie performances. There are hundreds of recordings out there on rhythm changes that predate bebop.

A Train - again, go to Duke's recordings. Pay especial attention to the background patterns and riffs of the band.

Cherokee - go to Charlie Barnet before you go to Bird.

Frankly I am not overwhelmed by Take Five, but your interests may vary from mine. There aren't a lot of tunes in other than four or three, but if you feel improvising in something other than four is important to you at this point, I'd go for some of the many jazz waltzes out there rather than Take Five. They have interesting changes too.

For "circle of fifths" tunes, I'd do some good hard listening to Bix Beiderbecke's recordings and Fats Waller's recordings, then pick a couple from there.

 

I agree with your suggestions regarding the various types of chord progressions. That's the other reason I like Chad LB's book 4 exercises through 20 standard chord progressions. Chad pretty much hits up all of the basic chord progression types in his ebook.

 

There are tons of tunes that fit the bill for learning the common harmonic patterns that come up in jazz repertoire so pick songs you like and are drawn to, especially starting out. Finding others to play with on a regular basis also helps, particularly if you’re all working up the same material.

 

@J-Moen

Learning these really hard tunes (Giant Steps, Cherokee, All the Things You Are) is an admirable goal. But I'd focus on the simpler tunes and the fundamentals first. Please take this as constructive criticism, not anything personal. I check out some of your recordings from time to time, and you're coming along great. You've got a nice sound and good improv ideas. But you still have some fundamental issues, namely, time and swing.

Your time is still very loose where you rush, drag and generally lack precision. If you were my student, I'd have you play whatever exercises you're working on with a metronome at all times. It's going to take practice and discipline over a long period to develop a good sense of time. In the months you've been playing, I haven't really heard much improvement in your time. So I think you're in a rut and have neglected or skipped this part of your development. But it is a fundamental and critical skill that has to be mastered. I drill this into my my kids and my students. They hate me for it at the time but thank me later. Unfortunately, it's really hard to enforce good time by yourself without a ton of self discipline. A teacher is really needed. So I suggest you get one as soon as it's safe to do so.

Along the same lines as time, your swing feel is still kind of hokey (dotted eighth, sixteenth-ish). In addition to listening and playing along with simple solos by the greats, a good exercise is to set the metronome to click only on 2 and 4 and then tongue only the upbeats in eighth note runs. This makes you really feel where the swing part of the beat goes. In practice of course, you wouldn't tongue only upbeats all the time. But this exercise helps you develop a solid swing feel. Then work in different accents and articulations to make your lines really swing and flow.

When the covid is over, I highly recommend you try to join a group like a big band. There's nothing like playing in a sax section to develop your time, style, swing, articulation, dynamics and overall musicianship. It's really hard to learn all of that in a vacuum. Best you can do now is listen, play along and stick to that metronome.

 

@J-Moen

Your time is still very loose where you rush, drag and generally lack precision. If you were my student, I'd have you play whatever exercises you're working on with a metronome at all times. It's going to take practice and discipline over a long period to develop a good sense of time. In the months you've been playing, I haven't really heard much improvement in your time. So I think you're in a rut and have neglected or skipped this part of your development. But it is a fundamental and critical skill that has to be mastered. I drill this into my my kids and my students. They hate me for it at the time but thank me later. Unfortunately, it's really hard to enforce good time by yourself without a ton of self discipline. A teacher is really needed. So I suggest you get one as soon as it's safe to do so.

Along the same lines as time, your swing feel is still kind of hokey (dotted eighth, sixteenth-ish). In addition to listening and playing along with simple solos by the greats, a good exercise is to set the metronome to click only on 2 and 4 and then tongue only the upbeats in eighth note runs. This makes you really feel where the swing part of the beat goes. In practice of course, you wouldn't tongue only upbeats all the time. But this exercise helps you develop a solid swing feel. Then work in different accents and articulations to make your lines really swing and flow.

I probably sound like a broken record on this issue, but transcribing solos that aren't too challenging for you, or at least a chorus of a solo, goes a long way to both improving these types of time issues and learning the changes of the tune. By transcribing, I mean learning the solo and playing along with the recording (not necessarily writing it down, although that is a good exercise as well). For me at least, it helps me focus on timing and rhythm because you really have to lock in precisely where the phrases start, and even where the specific notes land, when learning to play along with the recording itself. And it helps with understanding how great players swing in their playing. Here are a couple examples of solos over rhythm changes that I've worked on recently:

 

Best thing you can do is start playing these tunes you are memorizing in front of other people. There is something about performing them live in front of others that solidifies the whole process for me. I could work on memorizing a tune for weeks in the practice room and never get there but if I have to perform it in front of an audience I have to get my act together!

 

Best think you can do is start playing these tunes you are memorizing in front of other people. There is something about performing them live in front of others that solidifies the whole process for me. I could work on memorizing a tune for weeks in the practice room and never get there but if I have to perform it in front of an audience I have to get my act together!

Much as I hate to admit it, discomfort is apparently the key to learning and neuroplasticity, particularly once past the easy years. Thanks to neurobiologist Andrew Huberman for nailing that down for me in his videos.

 

I think your list is fine, though (as others have said) some of the tunes may be a bit challenging. My starting point suggestion would be: don't read any of the heads, at all!

Not even once! Instead, pick them off of your favorite recordings by ear. The heads are really easy to sing and get in your head, and this will be good practice for training your ear. Also, you'll find that the way artists play these tunes on your favorite recordings rarely matches the lead sheet exactly.

 

Two things:

Master easy songs. Save the hard stuff for later.

Time is super important. Without solid time, little else matters.

Playing live / having deadlines / recording really works.

Turns out it was three things. Enjoy.

 

Timing is everything and like you said, I rather play an easy song well than try to play above my capabilities. All of the difficult stull comes with time and there is only so much you can force.

 

So, I wanted to ground myself a bit and I realized I've never done something most all of you probably have - Learn a tune in and out. Like I've memorized nothing musically, and only ever read my sheets of the standards. Sure, I spent some rather extensive time learning the blues changes last year - which was probably the biggest step forward in my development ever, but I still have to read a head if I want to play it. So I want to recreate upon this development, but I want to expand as well.

There are some good concepts to consider here: How to learn a standard in 7 steps. Vlog#46

+1 to Lydian's comments regarding "focus on the fundamentals" - intonation, attack, phrasing, timing... As you learn your favorite tunes, listen to your recordings and those of the greats. Do you hear a difference? What are they? Which of those differences can you turn into achievable goals?

Enjoy the path.

 

I remember hearing Dexter Gordon talk about learning tunes, phrasing, and remembering melodies in an interview one time, and his advice was to learn the lyrics. Of course not all tunes have lyrics, but learning the words helps you to phrase more appropriately as well IF you're singing them as you play...works on all tunes, not just on ballads. It kind of bothers me when people hack the **** out a common and well known melody like All of Me, Bye Bye Blackbird, A Train, or Girl From Ipanema by being lazy with articulation or over articulation to replace substance with what they perceive as style. Playing behind or ahead of the beat is an awesome trick that can be very useful, but if (and only if) you have a great command/ sense of time feel. In addition to having solid time you also have to have the confidence that what you're playing works in the moment. I'm definitely not confident all the time with what I'm throwing out there, but I've learned that being rhythmically accurate is equally if not more important than playing the "right notes"
@J-Moen ...Maybe it's time to start an interactive transcription thread with a monthly host to focus on entry-level/ easier material. ?‍♂ I get frustrated and often lose focus so haven't learned whole choruses/ solos of very many players at all so I'm looking into starting with things I (in theory) should already have the chops to play, like the old blues and r&b type stuff and building from there.

 

I remember hearing Dexter Gordon talk about learning tunes, phrasing, and remembering melodies in an interview one time, and his advice was to learn the lyrics. Of course not all tunes have lyrics, but learning the words helps you to phrase more appropriately as well IF you're singing them as you play...works on all tunes, not just on ballads. It kind of bothers me when people hack the **** out a common and well known melody like All of Me, Bye Bye Blackbird, A Train, or Girl From Ipanema by being lazy with articulation or over articulation to replace substance with what they perceive as style. Playing behind or ahead of the beat is an awesome trick that can be very useful, but if (and only if) you have a great command/ sense of time feel. In addition to having solid time you also have to have the confidence that what you're playing works in the moment. I'm definitely not confident all the time with what I'm throwing out there, but I've learned that being rhythmically accurate is equally if not more important than playing the "right notes"
@J-Moen ...Maybe it's time to start an interactive transcription thread with a monthly host to focus on entry-level/ easier material. ?‍♂ I get frustrated and often lose focus so haven't learned whole choruses/ solos of very many players at all so I'm looking into starting with things I (in theory) should already have the chops to play, like the old blues and r&b type stuff and building from there.

I am feeling the same. I’ve transcribed, played standards, but am now working on the blues and using maj/min pentatonics for improv.

 

Your plan is a great one. I am working on memorizing changes right now too. It seems like many I have spoken to, including both of my teachers over the years have said if they had to do one thing differently in their learning, it would be to have done more of this earlier. What works for me is learning the changes by the numbers and then learning it in multiple (ideally all 12) keys. At some point in this process, it seems like the relationships begin to makes sense and stick. Each tune gets easier then the one before it.
Tunes for consideration on your list:
Confirmation
Fly Me to the Moon.

 

You and I have talked about some very similar things that being mentioned here. I just want to bring up one thing, even though I'm following this conversation. Let's take the term "memorize" out of your vocabulary, and instead think of it as "internalize."

-Bubba-

 

Serious question -- can you internalize without memorizing?

 

Somebody said 'It's not what you know, it's how many tunes you know.' Along with some of the other suggestions, like also learning the lyrics to a tune, this will be an exercise that never ends and also prepares you for whatever may come in the future. A famous scene - Parker is wailing at some club, and a chick walks by - without missing a beat, he goes into 'A Pretty Girl Is Like A Melody'! This is an old trick but it definitely demonstrates that he knew hundreds, if not thousands of songs, including the chords. He may also have known the scale positions of the opening notes of the 'head', which means that he could play it in any key without worrying about transposing.

 

I've always been in awe of this level of song memorization. I guess after a while, the patterns will start to make sense and you can do it with ease, but to me it seems daunting. Thanks for this

J Moen, "Blue Bossa", in addition to the Latin feel (straight eighth notes), has a lot of ii-V movement in it. And it's a good tune for practicing in a minor key.

I'm with Steve, though. I never feel like I've learned a tune until I perform it with a band on the bandstand. But unfortunately that's not possible during this pandemic. You can certainly learn and practice tunes on your own as a starting point. I'm mostly a 'blues player' but I like to learn jazz standards as well because I love them! So go for it, but as others have said, start with the more basic ones.

Oh yeah, and definitely get away from the sheet music; use your ear!

That darn sheet music! Thanks - I've never actually attempted Blue Bossa, so It's great to hear that it will also help build those standard jazz movements!

Set the metronome at 70bpm and work it out from memory on the horn phrase by phrase...You'll memorize it pretty quickly.

Man - I'm still fighting my desire to run before I started walking/jogging. I've been practicing it at 120... Time to back it off

 

J Moen, "Blue Bossa", in addition to the Latin feel (straight eighth notes), has a lot of ii-V movement in it. And it's a good tune for practicing in a minor key.

I'm with Steve, though. I never feel like I've learned a tune until I perform it with a band on the bandstand. But unfortunately that's not possible during this pandemic. You can certainly learn and practice tunes on your own as a starting point. I'm mostly a 'blues player' but I like to learn jazz standards as well because I love them! So go for it, but as others have said, start with the more basic ones.

Oh yeah, and definitely get away from the sheet music; use your ear!

 

J Moen, "Blue Bossa", in addition to the Latin feel (straight eighth notes), has a lot of ii-V movement in it. And it's a good tune for minor key practice.

I'm with Steve, though. I never feel like I've learned a tune until I perform it with a band on the bandstand. But unfortunately that's not possible during this pandemic. You can certainly learn and practice tunes on your own as a starting point. I'm mostly a 'blues player' but I like to learn jazz standards as well because I love them! So go for it, but as others have said, start with the more basic ones.

Yes! And the solos on the original Blue Bossa recording are approachable but still 🔥

 

As to jazz waltzes, I particularly like the "in one" group: Up Jumped Spring, Alice in Wonderland, Bluesette, Someday my Prints will Come (the Fotomat song), etc.

 

Revising My List - here is the intended order:

1. Lester Leaps In - Rhythm Changes
2. Misty - Ballad Practice
3. Impressions - Modal Jazz Concepts
4. West Coast Blues (or Bluesette)- Uncommon Time Practice
5. Take the 'A' Train - A Train Changes
6. Blue Bossa - Bossa/Latin Practice
7. All of Me - Circle of Fifths Tune
8. Autumn Leaves - Maj/Minor ii-V-I
9. Cherokee - Bebop language
10. All The Things You Are - ii-V-I Tune

 

I'm with mmichel on this one, and the advice of others about learning the lyrics. There's a big divide between learning mechanically and intuitively/artistically. This is not a judgement, but a reality. Some people simply may need to do a mechanical memorization because they simply don't have musical talent. Yea, that's not what anyone wants to hear, but it's a reality. Doesn't mean you can't have fun and play, but you're not a natural.

Having bad instruction can hamper a natural/talent by taking them down a mechanical path when that's not where they should go. I don't know where J-Moen's at and that's something for him to discover for himself.

If you're continually reading, then you've simply developed an eye to hand reaction that may not include your HEARING the music before you play it. Talent = having an internal singing voice that means that you can hear and recall tunes. Can you hear a tune or phrase and repeat it singing? Can you repeat it playing? The latter can take years of practice, but for those who have talent (can HEAR the music) it's a matter of making the instrument your voice. All of the parts come together without mechanically forcing when you sing (timing, phrasing, dynamics, etc.) since you are just accurately repeating what you internally hear. Most dancers don't need to practice with a metronome as 90+% of us can hear and accurately react to and anticipate rhythm. The % who can hear a tune and sing it back may be less, but that's the starting point for learning.

The idea behind lyrics is simple, you're using the story to give you clues. This is something that's been happening for thousands of years. Singers/writers of songs would use rhyme (some still do) that helps you remember the lyrics and in turn helps you remember the tune. Nothing new in this. Those who wished to become minstrels had to be able to hear in their heads the rhymes and tunes, if you couldn't, you simply weren't gong to succeed. Would it have been possible for them to spend months saying/singing a song until it was ingrained enough for them to perform it by rote? Yes maybe, but that's not facing the real issue of not having the talent to be able to hear the rhyme and tune in your head and repeat it easily.

There's a huge cringe factor at hearing most here simply giving mechanical prescriptions. That's OK for paint by the numbers, but it's not music or art... it's drilling into you a routine and not an artistic expression. For some that's the only way, for those with talent it's having your head down looking at a GPS crawling to your destination when you can stand up, see where you're going and just go there. Trying to develop finger memory as the way to learn a tune, picture the dots on the page or just drill yourself until it's ingrained is not music or art. It's drudgery, especially if it's not necessary for some.

Know who you are, what you can potentially do and find the best way to accomplish your goals. At 5' 8" and 74 years old I'm not going to train to be a basketball star. Make the most of what you've got and train smartly towards the things that you're good at. Mechanical practice is good for learning the instrument and developing dexterity. It's not the way to hear music, play tunes or improvise. What's required is making a connection between your inner voice and your instrument.

 

I have been forced into getting away from reading because my eyesight is poor even with prescription glasses, an unfortunate side effect of the meds I have take for Crohn's Disease. Besides KNOWING is much better than relying on charts.

 

I think I"m mimicing much advice others have given but heres my 2 cents.
1. Create your list of tunes as a set to be performed. I dont know your area or audiance but many of these songs would not be useful for our crowd. IN other words I wont work on anything I dont think I'd perform in public.
2. I think you are better off taking one tune and learning the snot out of it in all keys. Melody , changes, patterns on changes. I had that choice in front of me learning keyboards over the last few months and I'm finding that running stormy monday Changes in all keys with differnent voicings has really improved me I think better than doing 10 songs.
3. I'd really focus on one thing at a time when doing anything. So for this time are you doing tone, time, patterns, inflections, approach notes, add ing space to solo, sticking in a lick or an approach chord. ? So thats is 7 different things you can focus on on one song? Lastly, you need at some point to think of a three chorus (or more) solo as a piece of music with a beginning , middle and end to it withing the 3 choruses. Good luck, if you do 1/10 of what I'm suggesting you 'll see a difference.

One more lastly, you need to get an idea of what you want your audiance to appreciate? (if you stop thinking about an audiance it is now an exercise with the same meaning as doing a push up. ) So you are telling an emotional story in a period of time using different notes to be your words, sentences, paragraphs. Be well, good luck K

 

Wow - thank everyone so much for all the great advice! I didn't expect such an overwhelming response and it is great to know that there is a community that supports and encourages the development of the sax players who want to better themselves, and the community as a whole! I really am appreciative of all the input and discussion, as it is great to see the roads and paths that people have taken to lay this foundation I'm starting to build, as well as the talk of various different methods to reach the end goal. I'm eager to follow through here, and I'll definitely keep my progress documented!

I think I"m mimicing much advice others have given but heres my 2 cents.
1. Create your list of tunes as a set to be performed. I dont know your area or audiance but many of these songs would not be useful for our crowd. IN other words I wont work on anything I dont think I'd perform in public.
2. I think you are better off taking one tune and learning the snot out of it in all keys. Melody , changes, patterns on changes. I had that choice in front of me learning keyboards over the last few months and I'm finding that running stormy monday Changes in all keys with differnent voicings has really improved me I think better than doing 10 songs.
3. I'd really focus on one thing at a time when doing anything. So for this time are you doing tone, time, patterns, inflections, approach notes, add ing space to solo, sticking in a lick or an approach chord. ? So thats is 7 different things you can focus on on one song? Lastly, you need at some point to think of a three chorus (or more) solo as a piece of music with a beginning , middle and end to it withing the 3 choruses. Good luck, if you do 1/10 of what I'm suggesting you 'll see a difference.

One more lastly, you need to get an idea of what you want your audiance to appreciate? (if you stop thinking about an audiance it is now an exercise with the same meaning as doing a push up. ) So you are telling an emotional story in a period of time using different notes to be your words, sentences, paragraphs. Be well, good luck K

Thanks Keith! Great to have your input - and it does well to reiterate points that are crucial! I agree that some of these tunes aren't going to be the keys for a modern audience, but I believe the list is more essential due to it laying a good foundation of the basics that can be carried to other tunes. My current audience is just the internet, as that's where my progress will be placed, and any feedback I gather can be used. I'm going to say this is a 'Set-List' and document some plans for a 'gig' that I can do in this day and age.

I also have considered taking one tune and pulling it into all 12 keys before moving on, and maybe that will be added to my to-do list. However, the basics of this part will do me a huge favor in the basics of ear/horn connection, rhythm/time, matching intonation/tone, and being able to internalize the entirety of these songs, which I figured would be more beneficial based upon my current issues.

And understanding that there are a lot of things to focus on, you listed a little outside of my intended goal. What i'm working on is hearing/playing connection, while playing alongside the greats - which will also happen to help me with rhythm, intonation, tone matching, and time! The other things listed - approach notes, patterns, licks, etc - aren't the focus here. Yes I intend to perform my own solos over these, but I'm just going to be playing whats in my head after transcribing/playing along with the old recordings, not studying specific patterns/licks or anything.

YES. After so many years I've come to realize that relying on charts doesn't cut it. I have maybe two or three songs committed to memory. Having the chart in front of me, I can play it more or less how it's written but the feeling, the subtleties of inflection and articulation aren't there. I feel you can't be a convincing instrumentalist without having the songs committed to memory. Now if I'd only take my own advice. I just find it so darned hard to sit down and memorize music note by note. I don't seem to be able to hear an entire phrase and repeat it on the horn. Maybe that gets better with practice? I read what Jared says and see myself in him. At least he's on the right track and he's a lot younger than me so there's time. I can definitely hear the improvement in his recordings.

Thank you very much! I owe a great debt to the community here for helping me to develop and improve as I have, but this is the one thing I've never done and I feel will be the biggest way to increase my ability. Your experience even further solidifies this in my mind, and I'm happy to feel like I'm on the right track (Finally!)

I am (or used to be...) a good sight reader, and I know a fair number of tunes. I started playing saxophone by playing along with the radio and then records, but I was also studying classical clarinet at the time. The tunes that I know well aren't "memorized", they are just part of me.

I had a real interesting experience with a gig and memorization. I was playing in a salsa band, and we got a gig for 7 weeks at a club in Honolulu. We were doing a few originals, and covers of standard and popular repertoire of the day, with a 3 piece horn section. The leader (the keyboardist) had written out the horn parts and they were complicated with double and triple D.S. and D.C. signs, only take the 2nd ending the 3rd time thru, that kind of stuff.

The club owner took exception to the horn section reading the charts (something that is standard practice for salsa bands). So the three of us spent our days in that first week memorizing the charts; we had a deadline - either no music stands for the horns by the start of the 2nd week, or we were fired. Of course we got it done, and the process was helped by the fact that we played the tunes every night, 6 nights a week.

But that was memorization. Not the same as knowing the music.

The point is this - if you have a deadline, the process of learning a tune or a chart is accelerated greatly. If you have a gig, and you can't read on the gig, then you WILL get those tunes down, because the alternative is not doing the gig. Too bad that the OP doesn't have a gig on the horizon. For that matter, too bad that I don't either LOL

Thanks Steve! This is incredibly interesting, and definitely documents a key difference between internalizing and memorizing!

So, as I briefly mentioned above, my best bet for a 'gig' in this day and age is this idea of a virtual performance. The idea is, i'll prepare this set of tunes over time and internalize them as my 'Set-List'. Then I'll do a Live - virtual performance on youtube, where I play this set-list all together from memory. Seems like this is the most likely scenario for me to be able to set up this type of motiviation. Obviously setting myself a timeline would be very beneficial, but I'll probably think about that after I've finished a few tunes. This is of course a compromise and if I can get a group together or into a band, that'll change things - but as for right now, I think this is the best idea for me to set an end-goal

 

learn them on the piano, and play them on the piano until the chords are spread out in front of you in your dreams. So when you play them you visualize the chords like a friendly and sonorous road map.

 

Haha! The other benefit to learning lyrics is when you get older and start losing your memory you can sing the lyrics and remember what tune it is. I thought learning the lyrics was a waste of time when I was younger but now I am in my 50's and spend hours every week trying to remember the name of the song I just heard on the internet! I wish I had learned those lyrics........

 

I can't even remember being 50.

 

That's a great article but in reality most musicians will never be able to play by ear. I played in a band for 14 years and we did some numbers for the whole time. The other three horns had to have the charts for every number that whole time. Like Chick said, you read the chart a few times and one day you don't need it anymore. Its just that some players will never be able to do that. When I was in the Army band I was the only one who could just play, and I was the only one who could basically take a solo on most anything. Unfortunately my reading skills were poor, but during my hitch I improved greatly on that. I have thought about the difference in 'memorizing' and 'learning' but Chick expressed it so well - what I do is not memorizing - it is definitely learning, and retention is incredible when you learn music this way. In fact I now learn songs just by hearing them casually. Once I was sitting in Starbucks and they played a jazz tune. It was in the form of a riff tune with trumpet and sax together on the line, and I remembered it. The thing became an ear worm and I finally started working it out. I recorded how I thought it went, then posted that on here, and someone answered that it was Lee Morgan's 'The Sidewinder'. Turned out I only had a couple notes wrong.
(3) The Sidewinder - Lee Morgan - (Full Album) - YouTube

 

That's a great article but in reality most musicians will never be able to play by ear. I played in a band for 14 years and we did some numbers for the whole time. The other three horns had to have the charts for every number that whole time. Like Chick said, you read the chart a few times and one day you don't need it anymore. Its just that some players will never be able to do that. When I was in the Army band I was the only one who could just play, and I was the only one who could basically take a solo on most anything.

I don't think this is true. As I mentioned earlier, I used to be one of those "read only" musicians. What I figured out was that, if I let myself read the chart, I'd continue to rely on it no matter how many times I played it.

For most musicians who start out reading, playing without sheet music is painful. In my case, I had made some progress, little by little, but it wasn't until I put the music away "cold-turkey" for an extended period of time (i.e., several years) that I was completely comfortable playing without music.

In the Army in particular (note that I too was once an Army bandsman), musicians are sort of selected for their 'legit' chops, which means that you're more likely to encounter musicians who have relied on reading.

 

"memorizing" vs. "internalizing" - a play of words. Just get it done and play your standards.
This is just music. We are not saving lives. It's not biblical or spiritual.

 

This is just music. [...] It's not biblical or spiritual.

I don't know about the "biblical" part, but I suspect you're speaking strictly for yourself when you say that it's not spiritual.

 

On the topic of memorizing and internalizing a tune, I've said this on here before, I find it impossible to internalize a tune by reading it. I could read a tune 100 times and still not have it thoroughly memorized. Yet once I begin playing it by ear (even if I read it a couple of times to start with), I can get it down fairly quickly. I don't know why exactly, but I think it has to do with visual vs aural learning. And I don't know if this is true for everyone, but if you are having trouble memorizing a tune by reading it over and over, that means you need to get entirely away from the sheet music and use your ear.

 

Really hitting it home now!

So I got started Lester Leaps In! Playing along with Lester (and Sonny Stitt), no sheets, not even going to try to find one! I can already tell it's more reliable. I practiced the tune for a solid 30 minutes and have really stuck the A section down! I can feel the connection to my sax just thinking about the song and rhythm. I played the super simple "Watermelon Man" yesterday, while reading off the sheet, and I can't even remember what the first whole note is! Tomorrow will be a better testto see if I can pick my horn right up and play the A section.

However, I was struggling with the B section (is that the format?) Every version seemed to have a lot of change and embellishment in here, so it was hard to pick out what it was supposed to be. Sonny Stitt started running off on me - but I slowed it down and played through. Lester was a little easier, but couldn't internalize it fully just yet.

 

With the lyrics, the only real benefit to learning them is if you are going to play the song 'straight' at least the first time around. Knowing the lyrics can be incredibly helpful in your phrasing and accenting but after you start messing with the melody that becomes a thing of the past.

 

I kind of respectfully disagree, it depends on the song. Many songs have very repetitive verses but there are others where almost every line has a different melody and in cases like that learning the lyrics is very helpful to remember where each line goes, it just makes it a lot easier because the lyrics are a story and the story tells you where you are in the melody.

It is not the majority of songs but the ones with repetitive melodies- they are just repetitive anyway and there isn't that much to memorize.

 

I am (or used to be...) a good sight reader, and I know a fair number of tunes. I started playing saxophone by playing along with the radio and then records, but I was also studying classical clarinet at the time. The tunes that I know well aren't "memorized", they are just part of me.

I had a real interesting experience with a gig and memorization. I was playing in a salsa band, and we got a gig for 7 weeks at a club in Honolulu. We were doing a few originals, and covers of standard and popular repertoire of the day, with a 3 piece horn section. The leader (the keyboardist) had written out the horn parts and they were complicated with double and triple D.S. and D.C. signs, only take the 2nd ending the 3rd time thru, that kind of stuff.

The club owner took exception to the horn section reading the charts (something that is standard practice for salsa bands). So the three of us spent our days in that first week memorizing the charts; we had a deadline - either no music stands for the horns by the start of the 2nd week, or we were fired. Of course we got it done, and the process was helped by the fact that we played the tunes every night, 6 nights a week.

But that was memorization. Not the same as knowing the music.

The point is this - if you have a deadline, the process of learning a tune or a chart is accelerated greatly. If you have a gig, and you can't read on the gig, then you WILL get those tunes down, because the alternative is not doing the gig. Too bad that the OP doesn't have a gig on the horizon. For that matter, too bad that I don't either LOL

 

I am (or used to be...) a good sight reader, and I know a fair number of tunes. I started playing saxophone by playing along with the radio and then records, but I was also studying classical clarinet at the time. The tunes that I know well aren't "memorized", they are just part of me.

I had a real interesting experience with a gig and memorization. I was playing in a salsa band, and we got a gig for 7 weeks at a club in Honolulu. We were doing a few originals, and covers of standard and popular repertoire of the day, with a 3 piece horn section. The leader (the keyboardist) had written out the horn parts and they were complicated with double and triple D.S. and D.C. signs, only take the 2nd ending the 3rd time thru, that kind of stuff.

The club owner took exception to the horn section reading the charts (something that is standard practice for salsa bands). So the three of us spent our days in that first week memorizing the charts; we had a deadline - either no music stands for the horns by the start of the 2nd week, or we were fired. Of course we got it done, and the process was helped by the fact that we played the tunes every night, 6 nights a week.

But that was memorization. Not the same as knowing the music.

The point is this - if you have a deadline, the process of learning a tune or a chart is accelerated greatly. If you have a gig, and you can't read on the gig, then you WILL get those tunes down, because the alternative is not doing the gig. Too bad that the OP doesn't have a gig on the horizon. For that matter, too bad that I don't either LOL

Right, that's a very good point and knowing the music doesn't mean that you have memorized it, that's a very common misconception. You can know a musical piece even if you never heard it before because it follows some kind of, for lack of a better term, logical "musical" structure that has become part of you. That's where many of the really good soli come from, which at first glance / listening have nothing to do with the song, yet capture it perfectly. You can't get there with "memorizing" the song where you just end up playing around the melody and throw in a few licks to make it sound a bit more original