That is just amazing. I love this development for your archive.
Congratulations and many thanks for all your investigative superpowers!

 

How exciting!!

For you in particular, as you put so much into this, but for all of us Selmer fans too.

Thanks again for your sharing your fantastic research.

 

Thanks so much, Douglas, for your help in the past and your ongoing efforts in doing research and investigation work for Selmer horns.

 

Fantastic news!!

 

Really great Douglas, thanks!

 

Well done Douglas!
For those who don't know, such as myself, will the final records be available for interrogation by the public in the future?
For instance, I'd like to know more about my MkVII baritone.

 

The complete record archive will never be made public, but I am happy to share information about individual instruments. Just send me some photos for my photo archive (an integral part of my research) and I will tell you what I can about your instrument.

Well done Douglas!
For those who don't know, such as myself, will the final records be available for interrogation by the public in the future?
For instance, I'd like to know more about my MkVII baritone.

 

Before anyone suggests otherwise, yes, there are some Selmer Baris embossed with 'MarkVII' (usually on the back of the body to bow connecting ring, rather than the front). They also have 'M7' on the Neck. Appearance-wise, they didn't change the keys like they did with other MarkVIIs, so still look like a regular MarkVI (which had Serial Numbers that went well into the normal MarkVII range). More info can be found here: The Mythical Selmer Mark VII Baritone Saxophone | The Bassic Sax Blog. @DavidUK, if yours is one of these previously-thought-of-as-mythical beasts, you've got a rare one indeed. Any chance of pics here too? Cheers...

 

Before anyone suggests otherwise, yes, there are some Selmer Baris embossed with 'MarkVII' (usually on the back of the body to bow connecting ring, rather than the front). They also have 'M7' on the Neck. Appearance-wise, they didn't change the keys like they did with other MarkVIIs, so still look like a regular MarkVI (which had Serial Numbers that went well into the normal MarkVII range). More info can be found here: The Mythical Selmer Mark VII Baritone Saxophone | The Bassic Sax Blog. @DavidUK, if yours is one of these previously-thought-of-as-mythical beasts, you've got a rare one indeed. Any chance of pics here too? Cheers...

Some pics here, before overhaul: Selmer MkVII Bari

Link also emailed to Douglas for some more info, hopefully.

 

Thanks Douglas. Shall I post a link here to some photos in an album? It'll have to wait a few days as I'm just about to cross the pond back to old Blighty and I'll be zonked when I get there tomorrow.

As a reluctant collector on GAS this bari led me a merry dance for 6 months but patience paid off on the end (it was hanging on the seller's wall).

BTW Douglas I messaged a few weeks back about my 'Mystery Lafleur' but no worries if other French horns are not your bag? Hmmm... can't find my message now, maybe I didn't press send! Here's the link if you can help: Mystery 1920's Lafleur Tenor - Made in France - RTH...

 

Thanks for all of your hard work, Douglas—and for all of the information you've provided to so many of us regarding our own instruments. Congratulations on your ongoing sleuthing, and succeeding at uncovering even more records!

 

So cool! Thanks, Douglas!

 

Doug; thanks so much for your diligent and arduous work in pursuing the correct and original records on practically every Selmer Paris saxophone out there! I only have one Selmer story and it goes like this; in 1966 I was in the Army band in Indianapolis. They issued me a MK VI tenor but even though it was in fine shape, it was totally lifeless, so I was playing my 'Selmer Buescher 400' made shortly after the Selmer takeover of Buescher. One of the sergeants asked me if I wanted to buy a MK VI tenor and trade in the Buescher - he was going to swing the deal with the music store and we were going to drive to Elkhart, and acting as 'agents' for the store, pick the horn up. He was an alto player and wanted to try the new low-A alto. He even arranged for financing and everything. I was a bit inexperienced at the time but it was a good deal.
So we arrived and went directly to 'the room' - the room with one man in it and saxes laying around all over the place. This was the final stop before shipping them out. I believe it was here that the famous 'grading' took place which sometimes included neck swapping especially on the tenors. Can you imagine who had stood in that room before me? I was totally humbled but I still had to play some tenors and pick one out. I ended up with 130491 which seemed to be the best as far as tone and even response, including D2. The technician in the room told me 'You picked well-that one was going to New York'. I knew that had to be good but I did not know at the time about the 'A-B-C' grading system. The A's were reserved for Selmer Artists. The B's were sent to the premier outlets, like NYC, and the C's went to the other outlets. So I figured mine was at least a 'B'. People tend to make too much of this grading system - it was company policy so they had to do it, but it wasn't like there were good and 'bad' ones - if a horn was 'bad', it would not be shipped until fixed. The differences between them were small, so they would pick almost anything that would help them decide, like maybe a darker pearl or imperfections in the finish, for example. Plus, they did not need A's out of every batch because there were just a few Selmer Artists. I imagine there were plenty of 'A' horns marked as 'B'.
Well, Sgt. Manley did not care for the low A alto because of what he deemed to be sketchy intonation so only the tenor went back to Indy.

 

So we arrived and went directly to 'the room' - the room with one man in it and saxes laying around all over the place. This was the final stop before shipping them out. I believe it was here that the famous 'grading' took place which sometimes included neck swapping especially on the tenors. Can you imagine who had stood in that room before me? I was totally humbled but I still had to play some tenors and pick one out. I ended up with 130491 which seemed to be the best as far as tone and even response, including D2. The technician in the room told me 'You picked well-that one was going to New York'. I knew that had to be good but I did not know at the time about the 'A-B-C' grading system. The A's were reserved for Selmer Artists. The B's were sent to the premier outlets, like NYC, and the C's went to the other outlets. So I figured mine was at least a 'B'. People tend to make too much of this grading system - it was company policy so they had to do it, but it wasn't like there were good and 'bad' ones - if a horn was 'bad', it would not be shipped until fixed. The differences between them were small, so they would pick almost anything that would help them decide, like maybe a darker pearl or imperfections in the finish, for example. Plus, they did not need A's out of every batch because there were just a few Selmer Artists. I imagine there were plenty of 'A' horns marked as 'B'.
Well, Sgt. Manley did not care for the low A alto because of what he deemed to be sketchy intonation so only the tenor went back to Indy.

Very cool experience! It would be interesting to learn whether that grading was captured in the logs.

I have been around some various music companies that had Artist Relations managers, so I can appreciate that there exists some of this detail in the industry.

 

@Douglas Pipher if you need any additional photos on my #1599 I will gladly help you with anything you need.

 

Any possibility to make these archives public? I would love to get info about the manufacturing of my 1989 Super action II but concerned about a 1000 other people like me asking the same question.

 

answer is in post #8

 

The Mk.VII bari issue seems to pop up every now and then. Personally, I have great interest in it as I have a Mk.VI bari (obviously) that has a serial number deep in the Mk.VII period (251xxx), probably around 1976 or so. However, there are no Mk.VII markings to be found (or VI!). I’ll attach a couple of photos of the critical areas…
I bought it second hand, but it was basically brand new at the time. I also knew the seller very well. An airline captain who bought it in NY just about half a year before I bought it.

 

Mark VI Baritones continued through the Mark VII era and the Super-Action 80 era as well. Low Bb baritones continued to be built even into the SA80 II era, as high as the 388k range.

 

Per Douglas, my MKVII was despatched from Selmer in 1981, for the French market.

 

Thank you for the fantastic work! So very much needed and appreciated

 

Hi Doug please i am after info on my recently purchased MKVI tenor that you have kindly offered to find
Serial M221782 it looks absolutely mint condition the case especially so i can only imagine it has been under a bed for many years? I am pretty sure its orignal SP
hopefully your research will prove this.
The pads certainly look Selmer pads
Thanks in advance

 

Selmer 221782 is a Dutch-market Mark VI Tenor which shipped from Selmer Paris in February 1974. It was sold to a store called Van Leer, located in the Netherlands.

 

Hi Douglas, I've enjoyed watching your videos on historical Selmer saxophone models and came across one today where you discussed finding another set of records from the factory archives. About a year ago, I purchased a silver plated Selmer SBA alto with no engraving in the serial number range 47,XXX. The shop I purchased from works with someone who finds saxophones in Europe and sends them to the US. I would love to learn a little more about this sax if you were willing to check your archives. I also would be interested in knowing a little more about my Super Action 80 (Series I) alto which is serial number range 381,XXX. My family purchased this instrument new for me in 1988 and I believe it was made in 1986. I would be happy to share any photos or information you might be interested in on these. If you've able to help let me know how I should get in touch with you. Thanks! Andy

 

Hi Douglas thanks for the info about the retail origins of my horn Regards Neil