Steve Goodson talks about using neoprene on his site.

http://www.saxgourmet.com/

 

Possibly the best source, for Yanagisawa-like composite, specially formulated for instruments rather than for gaskets, "techcork" (formally called "Gummycork" is in Portugal. I can email you the 'family' business manufacturer's email. It is quite a new product and as yet there is probably no USA agent.

I could give you another source, of similar but not identical material, in Switzerland.

Both come in 0.1 mm thickness increments from 0.4 mm to about 1.2 mm, then larger increments.

A limited thickness range (0.4, 0.8, 1.2, ???) is available, considerably more expensive, from Yamaha agents. It is named 'Hycotex". Also very good.

I get some of mine as offcuts from a local manufacturer of industrial gaskets. Many types of automotive gasket material are available and most are unsuitable, particularly when they break up too easily.

 

Thanks Gordon, that's what I'm talking about. I'll check around and see what I can find out about techcork, gummycork, and hypotex. Was sorta hoping I could just head down to the local auto shop ...

I did buy a few sheets of the stuff Ferree's is now selling by the name "Hytek" or "RealCork". It seems rather springy to me, which may be a good thing, but I'd be more comfortable with something that doesn't compress much.

 

I have not seen Ferree's Hytek yet, but he advocates it for tenons, which means it is probably NOT suitable for linkages. To me, his rave about a rubber smell in other products really is clutching at straws for sales. There is no significant smell.

 

I've had some luck with a Hycron/Hypalon material used for baffling in Airplanes (I had some in my tool box from an owner assisted annual). A quick chat with a professional wrench may gain you some small chunks of different gasketing materials they use as well.

StevenW

 

My saxophone repair tech uses a certain kind of 'shoe soul' material he aquires cheaply from the local cobbler. It's very shock absorbing so it works especialy well for replacing the felts on the lower stack. It can't be sanded though, so a sharp knife and precise measurments are required before gluing.

 

Gordon- I'd be interested in the email address of the supplier you mentioned above. Would you mind sending it along? Thanks. crawfordrobin@yahoo.com

 

Possibly the best source, for Yanagisawa-like composite, specially formulated for instruments rather than for gaskets, "techcork" (formally called "Gummycork" is in Portugal. I can email you the 'family' business manufacturer's email. It is quite a new product and as yet there is probably no USA agent.

Sorry that I didn't get into this tread sooner I've been away from SOTW for a while.
In my shop I do mainly Vintage Saxophone overhauls and have been using the Tech Cork on Saxophones for a while now. I am really liking it. I like it so much, I ordered a good deal of it to sell on the Website and hope to have that page up by mid April.

I like the Tech Cork because it does not seem to compress significantly and it can be sanded. It is more dense than cork yet it acts as a silencer.

The same company in Portugal makes a product called AAAA Treated cork. This is natural cork covered with a special treatment which soaks through the entire sheet penetrating the inside and sealing the entire cork sheet, No holes pop out and it does not crack when bent. This stuff is much better for neck tenons and looks like cork. I am liking this stuff too.

I will post a note here when we get the Tech Cork up on the site.

 

To all appearances and 'feel', the "treated cork" means "filled". To me the term "treated" is an unfortunately misleading misnomer. It has quite significant holes, that have been filled.

Past attempts at filling the holes in cork have been rather dubious.

This AAAA "treated" cork is a lot better. Much the same as the newer version of "filled" cork that Kraus sells. The holes are much more securely filled, but I still would not consider cutting through a significant hole that was going to end up at the end of a tenon cork (i.e. the SIDE of the STRIP of cork). (I was not too impressed with the samples of the "AAA" version.)

 

OK, I finally got it up on the site! There is a lot of interest in this new cork and for good reason. It's certainly the best stuff that I have used.

Steve Goodson Talks about it in his article here:
http://www.saxontheweb.net/Goodson/AlternativeMaterials.html

If anyone is interested in the Tech Cork, using this link to learn about or purchase some will benefit SOTW...
www.MusicMedic.com/enter.php?ref=saxontheweb

 

Well done, Musicmedic, in making this quality material more readily available in USA.

 

Thanks Gordon,
We added a "sample pack" on the site if anyone is interested in trying all 13 sizes.

 

Be careful using gasket material as a cork substitute. I had to remove all of it on my horn after I noticed that it was tarnishing the contact points on the silver plating. I'm sure (I'd hope, at least) that TechCork doesn't suffer from this problem. Curt?

 

Tech Cork does not have this problem. The Gasket material that I use does not either. When I want a very firm material (like on palm keys that need a thick bumper), I use a black Gasket material that is great. It only comes in an assortment from Auto Zone (I think it's part number 3060). Now, there is a cork composite material in that assortment that might do what you are saying...

 

Curt, that's the gasket assortment I am using. It's the black material that ate holes in the silver plate. Some places were just slightly tarnished, others lost a good layer of silver (like under the feet of the RH stack that always touch the body). I've recorked the whole horn with TechCork and Teflon.

The two packs of "Part #3060 Gasket Assortment" have had slightly different color and texture. I think some might be safe to use, others not. The trouble is knowing which is ok.

 

Anything with sulphur in it is cruel to silver. It is common to see serious pitting in the silver where the felt on key stops contacts the body. This is probably because most felt is made from wool, which contaings sulphur.

For at least 15 years I have been using other composite corks with no problems. These are not sourced from automotive suppliers, but from suppliers to the market requiring high-end specification gaskets, such as for oil-filled transformers, and geothermal power stations.

Tech Cork seems an excellent product, but if you want something thicker, a source is off-cuts from any makers of INDUSTRIAL gaskets. See your 'Yellow pages'.

A major supplier to the world seems to be
http://www.jameswalker.co.uk/index.html

My supplies date back to a time when the products were not 'colour coded', and I do not know which products I actually have, although SOME of is labelled 'Nebar'.

 

Curt, that's the gasket assortment I am using.

Thanks for that info Stencilman, I bought a good deal of the stuff a while back and have had no troubles. Maybe they changed the formula. I will go get some and try it out.

You should not have a problem with the Tech Cork let me know how things go.

 

For those interested, I have found a chemical resistance chart for cork/elastomer composite gaskets. What is interesting is that although it seems that most elastomer binders are resistant to mineral oils, not manx are resistant to synthetic oils. So perhaps we have to be careful which greases we use to lower friction.

In the following pdf file, pg 16, 17, 18 give specs for various elastomer binders, and page 18 shows the chemical compatability. Unfortunately acetone and lighter fluid are not mentioned.

http://www.jameswalker.co.uk/docs/pdfs/Gaskets_&_Jointings_Low_Res.pdf

 

I bought the sample kit from Ferree's of the Hytek cork and have found it completely unusable! Even with a fresh razor blade and my best technique, I can't cut it cleanly. It crumbles terribly when you try to sand it. It is pretty nice on neck tenons, but the raw edges crumble if you try to sand them and it is REALLY tricky to cut a bevel for the overlap. I did manage to use it to success on some older Kings that I worked on because they have raised sections at both the top and bottom of the tenon. I have it on my personal alto (King Zeph Special) at this point, but that is my only satisfactory application. I'm going to try some of the Techcork from MusicMedic...maybe order this weekend if time permits.

 

I have not tried Ferrees, and will not, because there is little favourable reaction to their offering. There are several sources now for HIGH quality composite cork. Ferrees does not seem to be in this category.

 

Hey Gordon,
I have a ? for you,and anyonelse with some input.
Please give your input if you have tried both Hycotex, and Teck cork.


If price was not a factor, and the same sizes were available, which would you prefer to use, and why? As you may know I use Hycotex, but It does cost alot of $$$, and my new J.L. Smith catalog just came in today, with tech cork now in there.

Is Hycotex just a different name for the same thing, or is it somewhat unique.

 

They are near enough to the same in function. The 0.5 & 0.8mm Hycotex has cork particoles about half then size, and a lighter, more natural colour (than Tech Cork) so I would prefer the Hycotex. I'm not sure about the thicker Hycotex. I have not used it for a long time and think it may have a courser particle size.

Also, Hycotex has been successfully used for quite a long time, so it has stood the test of quite a long period of time. As I understand it the Tech Cork has been used on instruments for maybe only a yeaqr or two, and not more than 5 years.

TechCork may be a fantastic product, but the publicity associated with it has made statements that leave me wondering just where the truth lies, so I would trust Hycotex ahead of Tech Cork as a proven material.

For a relatively unproven material in our field, I have questions that I have repeated but which have not been answered. For example what is its resistance to synthetic oils, UV light, and atmospheric ozone & oxygen? What long-term guarantees can be given against powdery breakdown or hardening of the elastomer binder, or that any plasticiser will not leach to the surface of the binder and repel the adhesive that secures the composite to the key. These are real issues with elastomer binders.

However TechCork does have an excellent thickness range.

 

As far as Hycotex goes, the particaL size seems to be the same throughout the range. This is just from the visual impression that I get.
Although expensive, I am very pleased with this product, so I am very resistant to change, but may try some techcork in the not so distant future, just to see. I find that it takes longer to sand down hycotex, than natural cork, but the results are worth the effort.

 

Poly-crystaline diamond tools, such as "diamond wheels", as used in the dental laboratory industry, are very effective at shaping these composit corks. They could be used in a "Dremel".

 

What I would like to know... Are there a difference between TechCork and automotive composite cork?

The composite cork we get here in South Africa, Comes in plain compressed cork (looks like techcork) then with small compressed rubber particles between the cork and then I bought some 5mm thick normal compressed cork with no rubber in it - these materials work very well and are WAY cheaper than conventional cork.

I've never seen the real techcork, but the stuff on Musicmedic.com looks exactly like the cork I bought here in the auto store.