Just got an old wood clarinet. It's probably been a long time since it has been used. I'm thinking I should oil it before I use it. Any suggestion s as to what kind of oil I should use, or is the music store bore oil good enough? Thanks for any input.
sandster
I don't think you will do better than "Grenadoil".
There is natural oil in grenadilla timber, which gradually dries out.
A clarinet-playing chemist (Omar Henderson) with enormous lab resources, analysed and synthesised the main component of this grenadilla oil.
He then distilled the other componhents from the timber shavings and saw-dust from a clarinet manufacturer. I imagine in much the same way as very expensive perfumes are made from flowers etc.
He then combined all these to make an accurate copy of the original grenadilla oil.
He then added an antixoidant - a superior type not available to the general public - to stop the oil from polymerising and going rancid.
The result is "Grenadoil". Obviously it is not cheap, but a few $ worth is enough to oil the bore of a clarinet. Why would you use anything else?
http://doctorsprod.com/cbuy/doctorsprod-grenad-oil
There is natural oil in grenadilla timber, which gradually dries out.
A clarinet-playing chemist (Omar Henderson) with enormous lab resources, analysed and synthesised the main component of this grenadilla oil.
He then distilled the other componhents from the timber shavings and saw-dust from a clarinet manufacturer. I imagine in much the same way as very expensive perfumes are made from flowers etc.
He then combined all these to make an accurate copy of the original grenadilla oil.
He then added an antixoidant - a superior type not available to the general public - to stop the oil from polymerising and going rancid.
The result is "Grenadoil". Obviously it is not cheap, but a few $ worth is enough to oil the bore of a clarinet. Why would you use anything else?
http://doctorsprod.com/cbuy/doctorsprod-grenad-oil
Despite not being a technician, I think that probably the best answer to OP’s question is, very likely, the one given by Gordon.
The best oil on the market is the doctor’s oil.
However, it is way more complex a problem if we widen the scope a little bit and we ask ourselves IF , überhaupt, a clarinet needs to be oiled in the first place and why people do this under just any circumstance and what is precisely to be expected from oiling a clarinet ( a flute or oboe or whatever) or what would happen if we don’t!
OP got an old clarinet and (I think) automatically assumes that the clarinet needs oiling. For a number of people this is obvious but there is no reason to assume that this IS the case.
What does one want to prevent by oiling? Cracking?
Some clarinets crack immediately (new ones especially) some, which are more than 100 years old and oiled or not oiled, will NEVER crack.
This is of course especially true of those clarinets which survived for 100 years (or more) without cracks! They have selected themselves to be the ones impervious to cracking in all those years!
The reality is that this is another of the things that nobody can test.
There are no two identical clarinets because every piece of wood is different. So, there is no way to know why clarinet A withstood time and use with no cracking and clarinet B cracked.
In other words maintenance ( in the form of oil) might have been what prevented the clarinet from cracking or it might have been the simple fact that that piece of wood was impervious to it.
There are no identical twins to experiment on and my idea is that, oiling with the Doctor’s oil can do no harm, but maybe does not particular good either, there is NO way to know.
The best oil on the market is the doctor’s oil.
However, it is way more complex a problem if we widen the scope a little bit and we ask ourselves IF , überhaupt, a clarinet needs to be oiled in the first place and why people do this under just any circumstance and what is precisely to be expected from oiling a clarinet ( a flute or oboe or whatever) or what would happen if we don’t!
OP got an old clarinet and (I think) automatically assumes that the clarinet needs oiling. For a number of people this is obvious but there is no reason to assume that this IS the case.
What does one want to prevent by oiling? Cracking?
Some clarinets crack immediately (new ones especially) some, which are more than 100 years old and oiled or not oiled, will NEVER crack.
This is of course especially true of those clarinets which survived for 100 years (or more) without cracks! They have selected themselves to be the ones impervious to cracking in all those years!
The reality is that this is another of the things that nobody can test.
There are no two identical clarinets because every piece of wood is different. So, there is no way to know why clarinet A withstood time and use with no cracking and clarinet B cracked.
In other words maintenance ( in the form of oil) might have been what prevented the clarinet from cracking or it might have been the simple fact that that piece of wood was impervious to it.
There are no identical twins to experiment on and my idea is that, oiling with the Doctor’s oil can do no harm, but maybe does not particular good either, there is NO way to know.
While grenad-oil is surely a nice oil I doubt it would be any better in doing his job than any other decent bore oil that cost a fraction...
Oil depletion from wood is mainly a superficial effect due to playing it. Oil won't penetrate the wood if not in the more external layer and it's the same oil that will go away with playing again.
Any oil will do the job of protecting the bore of the instrument, but you want to avoid anything that goes rancid or that polymerizes (Lindseed oil or olive oil came to mind). I sometime use a bottle of almond oil that my wife bought for her pregnancy. It also has vitamins inside that I'm sure do nothing to the wood...
Snake oil will work as well, so fell free to spend large amount of money on something that went the tandem-mass-spectroscopy route to make an oil more oily...
Oil depletion from wood is mainly a superficial effect due to playing it. Oil won't penetrate the wood if not in the more external layer and it's the same oil that will go away with playing again.
Any oil will do the job of protecting the bore of the instrument, but you want to avoid anything that goes rancid or that polymerizes (Lindseed oil or olive oil came to mind). I sometime use a bottle of almond oil that my wife bought for her pregnancy. It also has vitamins inside that I'm sure do nothing to the wood...
Snake oil will work as well, so fell free to spend large amount of money on something that went the tandem-mass-spectroscopy route to make an oil more oily...
the use of Linseed is discouraged by several sources. I like sweet almond WITH lemon oil or PURE aromatherapy quality lemon oil but not everyone agrees. The doctor’s oil is probably the best but, in my view, there is no proof that I would do anything to PREVENT cracking.
In my view cracking tendency is determined by which piece of wood it is used and accelerated aging cannot replace naturally and slow aging wood. Despite those who talk of the life being blown out the inside of a clarinet. A 50 or 75 years old clarinet which survived all those years, central heating and the changing of the seasons will probably survive forever.
Oil or no oil.
In my view cracking tendency is determined by which piece of wood it is used and accelerated aging cannot replace naturally and slow aging wood. Despite those who talk of the life being blown out the inside of a clarinet. A 50 or 75 years old clarinet which survived all those years, central heating and the changing of the seasons will probably survive forever.
Oil or no oil.
Someone told me that if you add oil to a clarinet, as the wood absorbs the oil, it will naturally move around a bit, which in turn will move the posts and keys, putting them out of alignment.
Is this a danger?
Is this a danger?
I use sweet almond oil. I've been using the same little bottle for the past 10 years. I keep it in the freezer and it hasn't gone rancid.
WoW! Thanks for the responses. I know what milandro says about cracks is true. I purchased a new Buffet Bb clar. in the early 60's and it cracked in the first year. I had it banded and still play it regularly. Just recently, my tech discovered some very teeny cracking which he filled with a very thin glue. I used to oil this clarinet regularly but haven't in recent years.
Thanks for the suggested oils.
Now, I don't know what I'm gonna do! Oil or noil?:dontknow::treble::bass:
Thanks for the suggested oils.
Now, I don't know what I'm gonna do! Oil or noil?:dontknow::treble::bass:
I think Milandro says it best....... I can only speak of personal experience but I have owned maybe 25 wooden clarinets in my life time and have never oiled any of them. One of them I bought new in 1974. I have never owned a clarinet that cracked either. Maybe just lucky? I understand wanting to be good to your instruments. I think oiling a clarinet makes us feel better about providing care to our beloved clarinet but I'm not too sure it's necessary. I don't think it hurts the clarinet and it could make it smell good.
The good doctor also has a fine bore oil (Bore Doctor) which is less costly than the Grenad-Oil.
yes, what about it?
Trees don’t agree with petrol so some folks say you shouldn’t use synthetic or mineral oils to oil the bore of a wooden musical instrument.
People don’t like petrol too but we use plenty of it ( well mineral oils derived products) in many products, even some food.
Again there is research which seems to discourage the use of mineral oils but some bore oils are of mineral origin.
Would your clarinet disintegrate because you use mineral oil? I can’t imagine that it would.
Trees don’t agree with petrol so some folks say you shouldn’t use synthetic or mineral oils to oil the bore of a wooden musical instrument.
People don’t like petrol too but we use plenty of it ( well mineral oils derived products) in many products, even some food.
Again there is research which seems to discourage the use of mineral oils but some bore oils are of mineral origin.
Would your clarinet disintegrate because you use mineral oil? I can’t imagine that it would.
Wood moves by fractional amounts across the grain with humidity. Expanding with humidity and contracting in dry climates. Grenadilla wood was probably originally selected for it's density and stability against humidity. The original need for bore oil may have been to prevent uneven absorption of moisture (expansion) from the inside of the Clarinet to the dryer (contracted) outside. Probably any oil that keeps the wood of the bore from absorbing moisture and doesn't interfere with the sound is good. In that case a few drops of mineral oil on a swab would be a good choice. Keeping the bore dry after playing and don't expose your instrument to extremes of temp or humidity are probably the best things you can do to prevent cracks.
for the reasons I gave before, there is no proof that a clarinet left wet would crack any easier that one that is dried.
Most of these things are things that we all do or repeat because we think so or we’ve been told that .
When I was a kid I had to wait 3 hours after eating before going to swim. My mother and everyone else’s mother knew that. When later on I went to a proper swimming course they told me it was something that people say but there is no evidence that it is true.
Most of these things are things that we all do or repeat because we think so or we’ve been told that .
When I was a kid I had to wait 3 hours after eating before going to swim. My mother and everyone else’s mother knew that. When later on I went to a proper swimming course they told me it was something that people say but there is no evidence that it is true.
I remember my first experience with oiling a clarinet.
I had bought a clarinet which, as often happens, did smell a bit.
So I decided to clean it and first of all I thought of oiling it with the oil that was in the case. After oiling the clarinet smelled even more moldy.....a quick sniff of the oil confirmed my suspicions ...............THE OIL HAD GONE MOLDY!
I had bought a clarinet which, as often happens, did smell a bit.
So I decided to clean it and first of all I thought of oiling it with the oil that was in the case. After oiling the clarinet smelled even more moldy.....a quick sniff of the oil confirmed my suspicions ...............THE OIL HAD GONE MOLDY!
As a tech, my thoughts are that there are a number of bore oils that work great, but the real problem is whether to do this yourself or wait until you take your instrument in for servicing. What I see are a LOT of Clarinets with pads that should have been perfectly fine but instead have been prematurely killed due to bore oil getting on the pads. You really shouldn't be oiling the bore when the keys are still on the Clarinet! (I'm also a believer that Key oil is another thing that doesn't belong in a care kit because everyone dumps it all over the keys that are sluggish when really the problem is ill-fitting keys. Besides, key oil will attract dust/dirt and make a sludge which makes the problem worse.)
Another mistake that is often made is oiling the bore when the Clarinet is not COMPLETELY dry. I always ask when the last time it was played, but even then to be on the safe side I wait a day or two before oiling. When does it need oiling? When the end of the tenon starts turning greyish.
I take the entire instrument apart, oil the bore AND wipe down the outside AND use Q-tips with oil to do all the tone hole sides. I put it aside for a day. Yes, a day.
Next, I'll wipe the outside with Kleenex after Kleenex, since that is soft, won't damage the wood and absorbs all the oil residue. I use Q-tips over and over to clean the tone holes. I put Kleenex on a cleaning rod and gently pull through, over and over with fresh Kleenex.
During the time the Clarinet is 'resting' before doing that, I attend to the keys, buffing as necessary, then clean pads, looking for any water stain (immediate sign the pad has a leak in the bladder/skin).
Typically it might only take 2 hours total of time with a wooden Clarinet, but it is spread out of a couple days. I figure a professional/advanced student should be prepared to spend $100 per year for annual service, while a plastic student Clarinet annual service is $50, since it only takes an hour.
As far as key oiling? I clean all the rods and screws and use pipe cleaner to clean the keys (I NEVER file unless absolutely needed) and make sure the key rods move freely. When assembling, it is enough to have some key oil on your fingertips to handle the rods. I NEVER apply key oil to keys/screw on the Clarinet. If it doesn't move easily, it doesn't fit right.
Another mistake that is often made is oiling the bore when the Clarinet is not COMPLETELY dry. I always ask when the last time it was played, but even then to be on the safe side I wait a day or two before oiling. When does it need oiling? When the end of the tenon starts turning greyish.
I take the entire instrument apart, oil the bore AND wipe down the outside AND use Q-tips with oil to do all the tone hole sides. I put it aside for a day. Yes, a day.
Next, I'll wipe the outside with Kleenex after Kleenex, since that is soft, won't damage the wood and absorbs all the oil residue. I use Q-tips over and over to clean the tone holes. I put Kleenex on a cleaning rod and gently pull through, over and over with fresh Kleenex.
During the time the Clarinet is 'resting' before doing that, I attend to the keys, buffing as necessary, then clean pads, looking for any water stain (immediate sign the pad has a leak in the bladder/skin).
Typically it might only take 2 hours total of time with a wooden Clarinet, but it is spread out of a couple days. I figure a professional/advanced student should be prepared to spend $100 per year for annual service, while a plastic student Clarinet annual service is $50, since it only takes an hour.
As far as key oiling? I clean all the rods and screws and use pipe cleaner to clean the keys (I NEVER file unless absolutely needed) and make sure the key rods move freely. When assembling, it is enough to have some key oil on your fingertips to handle the rods. I NEVER apply key oil to keys/screw on the Clarinet. If it doesn't move easily, it doesn't fit right.
it would be nice but it is unlikely given the shrinking state of the wooden instruments market ( pun intended ), besides you would have to carry out this research over a number of years and you still won't know why one clarinet cracks despite all the attention and the other never does despite all the mistreatment because then another clarinet does exactly the opposite.
Making sense of all of this would require lots of money for a long time and there is a a serious chance that at the end of the research results would be inconclusive. Who would pay for such a research and why? Would they sell more clarinets if the exactly knew what is working and what is not?
My guess is that it won't. So nobody would put they wallet in the hands of expensive dendrologists.
In the meantime everyone does what they have always did, contradictory, unproven, un-researched.
With no real idea whether what they do keeps the clarinet whole or if this is just a game of chance.
In any case DO DO that VOODO that YOU DO so well !!
:twisted::bluewink2:
Making sense of all of this would require lots of money for a long time and there is a a serious chance that at the end of the research results would be inconclusive. Who would pay for such a research and why? Would they sell more clarinets if the exactly knew what is working and what is not?
My guess is that it won't. So nobody would put they wallet in the hands of expensive dendrologists.
In the meantime everyone does what they have always did, contradictory, unproven, un-researched.
With no real idea whether what they do keeps the clarinet whole or if this is just a game of chance.
In any case DO DO that VOODO that YOU DO so well !!
:twisted::bluewink2:
Useless piece of data,
I had a clarinet oiled inside and out with Grenad Oil (during full overhaul) and the results were stunning. I don't recall how the instrument appeared before the treatment, like a clarinet about sums it up, but after the treatment the wood fairly glowed. It was quite beautiful and the grain was completely closed - practically a mirror finish inside and out.
Who knows if it was beneficial or not, I don't. I don't even recall which clarinet I had it done to. I suppose I could go through them and see if I could spot the one, but that seems like work. Maybe if I have a free moment some time I'll try to find the one, but that may be a while.
I had a clarinet oiled inside and out with Grenad Oil (during full overhaul) and the results were stunning. I don't recall how the instrument appeared before the treatment, like a clarinet about sums it up, but after the treatment the wood fairly glowed. It was quite beautiful and the grain was completely closed - practically a mirror finish inside and out.
Who knows if it was beneficial or not, I don't. I don't even recall which clarinet I had it done to. I suppose I could go through them and see if I could spot the one, but that seems like work. Maybe if I have a free moment some time I'll try to find the one, but that may be a while.
Milandro, I think you are overcomplicating the issue.
If his writings on-line (and to me personally before the marketing) are to believed, he did investigate what different lipids did to timber and cork using one of those uber-uber microscopes and other equipment.
All I am saying is that if one is the sort of person who, after due consideration (including the concepts of reducing the moisture gradient through the timber) decides to oil one's clarinet, this Grenadoil is likely to be the best oil available for the purpose.
If his writings on-line (and to me personally before the marketing) are to believed, he did investigate what different lipids did to timber and cork using one of those uber-uber microscopes and other equipment.
All I am saying is that if one is the sort of person who, after due consideration (including the concepts of reducing the moisture gradient through the timber) decides to oil one's clarinet, this Grenadoil is likely to be the best oil available for the purpose.
No research made on samples of wood would ever tell us what happens to a finished clarinet. There would be data about the respective or combined absorption of water and oil in the fibers but this could turn out to be absolutely meaningless in relation to crack preventing of a finished instrument.
In any case although I am not an expert at chemistry I know enough of it and about wood and trees to at least be able to read and understand the premise of the study and the conclusions.
Flutes, clarinets and oboes were made of softer woods like boxwood. Bassoons are still made of very soft wood like Maple and often, modern bassoons, have a sleeve of some material which prevents the wood splitting which in historical instruments was rather more the norm than it was the exception.
I think that at the time when instruments were not made of these hard, oily, exotic and expensive woods, the tradition arose to wax or oil the wood and it did indeed make sense, back then.
When , much later on, we started making these woodwinds with black or rose woods ( there are actually many types of each used) we kept on doing something that was not necessary for these woods, impervious to absorbing water over a very small amount, because it didn't actually prevent the splitting of these woods,
Splitting happened with black or rose woods alright, but was not caused by the normal use under normal circumstances, and it was (and is) quite literally something that was ingrained in the wood grain and structure , its aging an machining. Let's also not forget that inserting all kinds of bits and pieces IN the wood distributes the the stress unevenly and in itself might create the presuppositions for splitting.
The majority of clarinets in the world are oiled, according to the Doctor, with wrong oils or not oiled at all.
Despite this, some have survived hundreds of years of these mistreatments and apparently survive being cleaned, as Simso tells us, with water only in a world which postulates that a clarinet would require regular cycles of total immersion for a wood that is only superficially absorbing any oil or water.
Many sell, at great expense, the services of their ritual bath in different types of oil. The clarinet " mikveh"! To revive, rejuvinate and wash all sins away.
Mind you this is the same world which tells us that one literally blows out the life out of a clarinet and that once that has happened only, maybe, this immersion in the purifying oil bath would give the blow of life , the " ruach "back to the clarinet!
In my opinion there is a very good chance that oiling instruments inside or outside does absolutely nothing to their chance to not split and as for many things which we do to prevent something happening things might happen if we do or if we don't regardless.
On the other hand it is also very possible that no ill effect can come from oiling. Also, I am almost sure that, as far as oil go, the Doctor's oil is probably the best and only researched product out there! So, if you must oil, then use that one.
Chances are that it won't do anything good or bad and that your clarinet would look beautiful ( and that, in itself would be money well spent!).
One other thought.
Orsi produced, at a certain time, a series of clarinets in olive wood, they were stunning, as far as I know they all cracked in a few years and Orsi quickly abandoned that ill advised project.
In any case although I am not an expert at chemistry I know enough of it and about wood and trees to at least be able to read and understand the premise of the study and the conclusions.
I absolutely agree with this, as I said within a previous post, there is a very good chance that oiling the clarinet is only done for traditional reasons which probably have their roots (!) in the fact that clarinets were not always made of the black or rose woods which we use now.
Flutes, clarinets and oboes were made of softer woods like boxwood. Bassoons are still made of very soft wood like Maple and often, modern bassoons, have a sleeve of some material which prevents the wood splitting which in historical instruments was rather more the norm than it was the exception.
I think that at the time when instruments were not made of these hard, oily, exotic and expensive woods, the tradition arose to wax or oil the wood and it did indeed make sense, back then.
When , much later on, we started making these woodwinds with black or rose woods ( there are actually many types of each used) we kept on doing something that was not necessary for these woods, impervious to absorbing water over a very small amount, because it didn't actually prevent the splitting of these woods,
Splitting happened with black or rose woods alright, but was not caused by the normal use under normal circumstances, and it was (and is) quite literally something that was ingrained in the wood grain and structure , its aging an machining. Let's also not forget that inserting all kinds of bits and pieces IN the wood distributes the the stress unevenly and in itself might create the presuppositions for splitting.
The majority of clarinets in the world are oiled, according to the Doctor, with wrong oils or not oiled at all.
Despite this, some have survived hundreds of years of these mistreatments and apparently survive being cleaned, as Simso tells us, with water only in a world which postulates that a clarinet would require regular cycles of total immersion for a wood that is only superficially absorbing any oil or water.
Many sell, at great expense, the services of their ritual bath in different types of oil. The clarinet " mikveh"! To revive, rejuvinate and wash all sins away.
Mind you this is the same world which tells us that one literally blows out the life out of a clarinet and that once that has happened only, maybe, this immersion in the purifying oil bath would give the blow of life , the " ruach "back to the clarinet!
In my opinion there is a very good chance that oiling instruments inside or outside does absolutely nothing to their chance to not split and as for many things which we do to prevent something happening things might happen if we do or if we don't regardless.
On the other hand it is also very possible that no ill effect can come from oiling. Also, I am almost sure that, as far as oil go, the Doctor's oil is probably the best and only researched product out there! So, if you must oil, then use that one.
Chances are that it won't do anything good or bad and that your clarinet would look beautiful ( and that, in itself would be money well spent!).
One other thought.
Orsi produced, at a certain time, a series of clarinets in olive wood, they were stunning, as far as I know they all cracked in a few years and Orsi quickly abandoned that ill advised project.
Do not get me wrong, if a customer asks me to oil there clarinet as part of the servicing or repad, I happily do it for them, and then follow up with a buffing of the bore to ensure its clean with no left over residue. In general we do not.
I only started doing this after we started making guitars for music stores and customers, the learning curve was fast and dramatic when working with woods and we learnt quickly how much water and oil penetrates the surface of different woods, grenadilla is a very tight grained wood, I doubt soaking it for a week would get any penetration greater than 10 thou.
We have also made plenty of bells and barrels for clarinets (plenty being in the hundreds), I can easily get a barrel to crack within days of it being machined if the initial drying process is not adhered to strictly
I do not however condone anyone that said's they do it as part of there process, I do not believe personally it can damage the instrument, unless one was to soak it for a period of time, and then ""I think"" it would compromise post mounts
Steve
I only started doing this after we started making guitars for music stores and customers, the learning curve was fast and dramatic when working with woods and we learnt quickly how much water and oil penetrates the surface of different woods, grenadilla is a very tight grained wood, I doubt soaking it for a week would get any penetration greater than 10 thou.
We have also made plenty of bells and barrels for clarinets (plenty being in the hundreds), I can easily get a barrel to crack within days of it being machined if the initial drying process is not adhered to strictly
I do not however condone anyone that said's they do it as part of there process, I do not believe personally it can damage the instrument, unless one was to soak it for a period of time, and then ""I think"" it would compromise post mounts
Steve
I was talking once to Mr. Paraschos ( a fine gentleman I was introduced to the entire family including his wife and sons) at the musikmesse in Frankfurt.
They have been for many years the Greek importer of Yanagisawa and many years ago were asked by Yanagisawa to make wooden necks for Yanagisawa saxophones.
They made a first series and they ALL split ( of course a wooden neck is even more complicated than a clarinet because it is made in two pieces), they tried all manners of oils, it didn't work, then they made them in a different way and they are to this day, a well established brand making these necks ( whatever one thinks of them sonically, they are beautiful pieces of handcraft!).
The stress of the wood he told me is the key to the secret.
Paraschos doesn't particularly recommend oiling the neck and will replace it if something would go wrong.
![Image]()
They have been for many years the Greek importer of Yanagisawa and many years ago were asked by Yanagisawa to make wooden necks for Yanagisawa saxophones.
They made a first series and they ALL split ( of course a wooden neck is even more complicated than a clarinet because it is made in two pieces), they tried all manners of oils, it didn't work, then they made them in a different way and they are to this day, a well established brand making these necks ( whatever one thinks of them sonically, they are beautiful pieces of handcraft!).
The stress of the wood he told me is the key to the secret.
Paraschos doesn't particularly recommend oiling the neck and will replace it if something would go wrong.
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
