I don't know about Bill Street, but yes, there a number of resonably priced current production model c melody mouthpieces available for in and around the $100 mark.

Ruynon makes one, although they don't advertise it. You can contact the company directly and they will tell you about it. Comes in 3 openings and with or without spoiler. I use this one on my straight-neck Conn. Gives a nice authentic c melody sound, but has good projection.

Woodwind and Brasswind sells the Woodwind brand by LeBlanc.

Meyer makes one. I've only ever seen the listing in a on-line price list for a store in Holland I believe. I think I remember Bootman used to use one, he could tell more about it.

I know that Ralph Morgan recently started selling them, but they are more costly. Don't know how much more, but I know some people on this board use them.

Lastly, if you haven't already checked out the c melody forum, here's the link:

http://boards.eesite.com/board.cgi?boardset=cmelody

C melody players talking nothing but c melody issues. Lots of info. and threads about mouthpieces...Hope this helps as a starting point....helen

 

Lastly, if you haven't already checked out the c melody forum, here's the link:

http://boards.eesite.com/board.cgi?boardset=cmelody

C melody players talking nothing but c melody issues. Lots of info. and threads about mouthpieces...Hope this helps as a starting point....helen

This link seems dead. Were all the threads just moved to this subcategory?

 

Helen, that site is just what I needed. Many thanks!

 

I have a Bill Street C-melody piece. It plays good. DAVE

 

Awesome link Helen! Once again you provide angst-free advice and pointers. Thanks.

 

I too have a Bill Street mouthpiece that came with my Buescher c-mel; it seems to be faced for alto reeds rather than tenor though - anybody else come across one of these? I did pose this question on the c-mel site that Helen mentioned, but nobody knew anything; I even emailed the man himself via the Univ of Maine(? it was a while ago...) but got no response. The obvious answer I suppose is that if an alto reed fits then that's what I should use, but it would be interesting to know if anybody else has one.

 

I tried a Bill Street c-melody mouthpiece a year or two ago. It struck me as being a better quality mouthpiece than many of the others that I tried at the time. However, I didn't find anything particularly exceptional in it's playing characteristics. On the other hand, when I first tried a Morgan c-melody mouthpiece it was WOW!!! The quality it's of sound, response, and projection have to be experienced in order to be believed. Yes, this mouthpiece is more expensive than others on the market. Never the less, in my experience it's worth every penney and then some. One reason why it has a higher cost than others is that it's hand-made and a great deal of attention goes into making each one.

 

My alto mpc fits on a straight-neck Conn, but I would rather use a bigger mpc and reed because I don't like the whiney alto tone as much. I don't know if I like the idea of difficulty finding reeds, etc. What does everyone think of alto or tenor mpc's on C-melodies? I was thinking if it had a slightly thicker cork a tenor mpc would fit just fine.

 

My alto mpc fits on a straight-neck Conn, but I would rather use a bigger mpc and reed because I don't like the whiney alto tone as much. I don't know if I like the idea of difficulty finding reeds, etc. What does everyone think of alto or tenor mpc's on C-melodies? I was thinking if it had a slightly thicker cork a tenor mpc would fit just fine.

The new c melody mouthpieces use tenor reeds, so no problems hunting for odd reeds.

As far as playing alto or tenor pieces on a c melody, it is done all the time. However it changes the sound of the horn to something other than a c melody sound. Intonation is also often compromised with either an alto or tenor piece. I have only found 2 m/ps (both tenor) that work with my straight neck Conn. A vintage Otto Link Tone Edge hard rubber piece circa. 50s or 60s. The other is a plastc Couf from an unknown period. Both play intune, but the horn loses its c melody sound.

 

Beechler also makes a C mel mpc.

 

If you're thinking about using a Beechler c-melody mouthpiece I'd suggest that you carefully check it out against a tuner before shelling out the money for it. Personally, I find the Beechler piece to not have enough chamber volume to be a good c-melody mouthpiece. As a result, intonation can be problematic. It addition, it's faced for alto reeds....not tenor. This was confirmed when I sent a Beechler c-melody mouthpiece I had a couple of years ago to JVW for refacing. Even after JVW did his magic on this mouthpiece it didn't work out very well on my Conn c-mel. However, I gave the mouthpiece to Wade Walker and he absolutely raved about how well it plays on his Buescher c-melody. So, go figure! :lol:

 

So Beechler make c-mel m/ps faced for alto reeds? Maybe my Bill Street alto reed c-mel isn't so strange after all ...

 

As far as playing alto or tenor pieces on a c melody, it is done all the time. However it changes the sound of the horn to something other than a c melody sound.

Assuming that the horn is dark by nature, and that brightness in a C melody is inauthentic. I wonder. Even with the alto-like bore, I wonder.

If you play a bari mpc on a bass sax, does its sound change to that of an "un-bass"?

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Paul,

This is an interesting point!

When I listen to Frankie Trumbauer recordings his c-melody tone doesn't sound all that dark to my ears. Rather, it's on the light side. However, with a vintage mouthpiece a c-melody sounds dark, tubby, and muffled. It isn't at all like Trumbauer's sound! So, what do we mean by a traditional c-melody sound -- the vintage sound or Trumbauer's?

It's important to understand that Trumbauer's c-melody sound is different from his sound on alto. This should not come as a surprise. While the design of the c-melody bore is closer to an alto than a tenor, it's NOT the same as an alto. Thus, the air flow in a c-melody has more resistance than an alto and it's sound has a somewhat muted quality. As much as I love the c-melody, it would be a struggle to play the lead alto part on one in a large jazz ensemble. It simply doesn't have an alto's brillance of tone and level of projection.

The Morgan c-melody mouthpiece has helped me to develop a clearer concept of a c-melody sound. Ralph spent quite a bit of time researching the c-melody and created a mouthpiece that has the proper length and amount of chamber volume for the instrument. Interestingly, it's very close in length to an alto mouthpiece; however, it has a considerably larger chamber than a similar tenor mouthpiece. This piece doesn't have a vintage mouthpiece sound. Rather, it has a tone that sounds alive and projects very well. Depending upon your set up, it can have a Trumbauer lightness or it can be on the darker side. I think of this as being more of a "natural" c-melody sound. I really like this sound. It's different from an alto or a tenor. It's something unique.

 

Something other than a C-melody sound?

I have to weigh in on this one. What is a C-melody sound? Most people have never seen one let alone heard one. The number of people who have recorded with a C-melody (and admitted to it!) can probably be counted on one hand. There is certainly a lot of room for tonal variation on soprano - alto and tenor, as evidenced by any number of sax players. Why should we not strive for tonal variation on a C-melody? For me, intonation should be first - followed by saying yes to the following question. "Do I like what I'm hearing?" If I could get my C-melody to sound like a clarinet, or an alto, or a tenor - why would I care, as long as this sound worked for me and what I was trying to do musically?

I had a Runyon C-mel mouthpiece for a while. It had great tone and a lyrical quality in the upper octaves. But I could never get it to play in tune - way sharp. I've gone back to a really cheap Rico Graftonite A5 tenor mouthpiece and have no problems with intonation. It plays easily from top to bottom and has PLENTY volume and projection. Someday I'd like to try a Morgan - a Leblanc and a vintage Selmer jazz. Actually I'd like to try a whole roomful of mouthpieces if I had the time and money. But I wouldn't be looking for an 'authentic' C-melody sound. I'd be looking for whatever I liked best.

 

I have a Meyer C Melody mpc, refaced and tweaked by JVW to play like a NY Meyer. This is the best C melody mpc I have ever found. It uses a tenor reed too. The sound is unusual and I have trouble getting a handle on it because it sounds like a tenor and an alto similtaneously. It is unique and the horn plays really well too but I find it hard to find a use for it on a gig.

 

I found out some interesting news today under the mpc topics. Johannes Gerber is working on an alto mpc that takes tenor reeds. I posted in there that I would be interested in a C-mel piece that takes tenor reeds. I think he only makes metal, and his site lists them as about $200. Maybe you could talk to him.

 

I did some work with c-melody mouthpieces on my web site. Check it out at http://home1.gte.net/wwalker/tuning.htm.

The home page for the C-Melody site is http://home1.gte.net/wwalker/cmelody.htm

Also check out the forum threads about mouthpieces at http://boards.eesite.com/board.cgi?boardset=cmelody&boardid=cmelodym&spec=4864557

 

Re: Something other than a C-melody sound?

I have to weigh in on this one. What is a C-melody sound? Most people have never seen one let alone heard one. The number of people who have recorded with a C-melody (and admitted to it!) can probably be counted on one hand. There is certainly a lot of room for tonal variation on soprano - alto and tenor, as evidenced by any number of sax players. Why should we not strive for tonal variation on a C-melody?

A C melody sound can be heard on the theme song from the 60s (?) TV show, My 3 Sons. It was c melody solo. (Is Nick At Night running the show at all?)

By the way, I'm not saying all C melodies have to sound alike, what I'm saying is that the C melody does have a charcteristic tone like a tenor has a characteristic tone. There are variations in tenor sounds of course, but you can still tell it's a tenor sax. Playing a tenor or alto mouthpiece changes the characteristic tone of the c melody. As long as you like the sound you produce, great. :mrgreen:

 

If you play a bari mpc on a bass sax, does its sound change to that of an "un-bass"?

It has not been my experience that playing a bari piece on the bass changes the sound characteristics of the bass sax radically. But then I have a modified baritone piece especially customized for use on bass sax. I also have an original bass mouthpiece. The modified bari piece has a lot more edge and punch to it. The bass piece is a very beautiful sounding mouth piece, but does not project extremely well. Great for classical music.

 

The real difference between using a Bas sand a Bari mpc on a bass sax is that the bass sax mpcs definitely improve the middle D and Eb on a Bass. The don't jump like they do with a bari mpc. There is a tonal difference but it is not really that noticeable. I was having all sorts of Bass sax mpc nightmares until I obtained a refaced mpc from Sarge, this has made the workd of difference to how the Bass plays in terms of intonation, low end and projection with a big round sound.

I took the C melody out again today and was shocked as to how well the horn played. The sound was excellent although G3 can be problematic on this horn (the only horn I won where this is the case) but the rest of the altissimo speaks well. The JVW modified Meyer works beautifully. All I need know is to find new places to use this instrument professionally.

 

Bootman,

Here's a thought.... Perhaps you can play your c-mel on some gigs without saying anything about it. You know, just go for it and let everyone grove on your sound. Of course, this might not work if you're supposed to be doing a gig on bass sax! :lol:

 

Windcraft in the UK (part of Dawkes) sells two different c-melody pieces, a plastic one for about £15 and an ebonite one of their own brand for about £30. I found both these to be very similar in sound and facing to the original c-melody pieces I had with the two Buescher C-melodies I have owned. So, they played in tune, but I found they choked off the sound and made the instrument sound asthmatic just like the originals.

I bought a second hand modern Beechler HR no 5 C-melody piece and had it refaced by Anton Weinberg at Dawkes to match a Meyer 6 tenor piece, and that made all the difference - WOW! I sold the horn and the piece, then obtained a second C-melody (glutton for punishment) and got a new Beechler piece, think it was a 7. This was better than the previous un-refaced 5 but I didn't like it nearly as much as the refaced one. I should say though that I don't generally get on with Beechler facings on other size sax mouthpieces, so this may be personal, but as you all know, there are not many makes to choose from.

I have since sold the whole lot, but mention this in case 1) you need an authentic type piece for a reasonable price, perhaps with a view to getting it faced to your liking (go to Dawkes) or 2) you were thinking about getting a Beechler C-melody piece.

 

Someone should create a sound library for the C-Mel

I've heard Bootman play his C-Mel (via a shared sound clip). It's a beautiful thing - but I bet a blinded panel would have a hard time saying whether he is playing an alto or a tenor or a C-Mel. It sure doesn't sound like the same horn playing on the 'My Three Sons' tune or like anything that Scott Robinson does on C-Mel with an alto mouthpiece. Doesn't sound like anything I've ever heard from Traum either! Lots of room for tonal variation here and as Roger has said many times, the C-Mel is sort of a blank slate. The only thing I've heard that accurately describes a C-Mel sound is 'something between an alto and a tenor'. Who wants to volunteer to compile some C-Mel samples - describing horn and mouthpiece?

 

OLDAIR,

Compiling some c-melody sound samples along with info about the set ups being used is a GREAT idea. I have rather primitive equipment around the house so I'm not the best person to do it. Let's see if some kind-hearted soul with the means to do it will step forward.

I'm still scratching my head over the concept that a c-melody's sound is somewhere between an alto and tenor. I have a couple of theories in progress about this: 1. A lot depends upon one's set up and 2. the c-melody, due to it's particular bore design, is largely a different animal from an alto and tenor; thus, it needs to be thought of as a unique instrument.

One excellent modern player whom I admire a lot is Dave Pierto. He uses a Beechler alto mouthpiece on a 20's Selmer Model 22 c-melody. When I listen to his recordings there are times when I have to really focus to tell when he's playing alto and when he's playing c-melody. He has a pretty dark sound on alto. However, one thing that can be a give-away is the weight of his sound on c-melody.

On the other hand, in my own experience with a c-melody (using a c-melody mouthpiece) I find that it's performance characteristics are very different from an alto or tenor. It has tonal qualities that to my ear are rather like a french horn and bassoon blended with a saxophone. But, I've also tried other kinds of mouthpieces -- such as a Meyer tenor piece -- which, as Hellen mentioned, changed the sound and feeling of the horn.

So, when it comes to the c-melody I guess everything is up for grabs. That helps to make it a really cool adventure.

 

The C melody sound is an interesting thing, I always get the feeling that I should be playing French Classical Saxophone music when ever I play this horn. It can be used nicely in a Jazz context but I would have a hard time trying to make it work in a contemporary setting. The sound almost defies description. I had forgotten how good this old C-melody was to play, but this could be because it is a mint condition silver plated straight neck model.