hate to sound snippy or derogatory ... but i grew up without "online" knowledge ... a lot of teacher input and a lot of trial and error .... for me the best reed break-in is:
1) Open box
2) Remove reed from box
3) Unwrap reed
4) place in mouth while you walk around putting horns together, cleaning studio, or call your agent regarding the next gig
5) put on mouthpiece
6) wail away ....

if needed (and i RARELY do this part) use a little rush or sand paper to remove some material on the heavy side ...

7) be very careful with reed ... they are so darn expensive

No need to get overly concerned with the "online" sources and discrepancies you find ... as Nike says ..."Just do it!"

 

YES I likes it! All this reed prep procedure is lunacy. Thats 220 wetordry sandpaper by the way. Heres a serious time saving tip.... Place a few dry reeds, new or old, in a small bowl in about 1" of water, in the microwave for 10-15 seconds. This saves you 3-5 minutes of soaking, and helps force water INTO the reed which helps with warping on the flat and tip.

hate to sound snippy or derogatory ... but i grew up without "online" knowledge ... a lot of teacher input and a lot of trial and error .... for me the best reed break-in is:
1) Open box
2) Remove reed from box
3) Unwrap reed
4) place in mouth while you walk around putting horns together, cleaning studio, or call your agent regarding the next gig
5) put on mouthpiece
6) wail away ....

if needed (and i RARELY do this part) use a little rush or sand paper to remove some material on the heavy side ...

7) be very careful with reed ... they are so darn expensive

No need to get overly concerned with the "online" sources and discrepancies you find ... as Nike says ..."Just do it!"

 

http://bit.ly/HvyFQj :bluewink:

 

Hi arya,

You can find most of the answers from the "Reeds" subsection in this forum. http://forum.saxontheweb.net/forumdisplay.php?43-Reeds

There're many methods and procedures to break-in a reed. Player A may massage the reed after soaking for 15 minutes and scrape and play only G1 to G2, while player B would just pull new reed straight from box, slap on the mpc and go wail. It's quite a personal thing I think. You'd probably get as many procedures as there are people answering your questions.

But in general sense, IMO:
a) Do what you feel comfortable with. If you think soaking is good, go for it. If you're worried too high/low notes will damage the reed, then don't do it.
b) Cane Reeds' quality vary a lot. Even within the same batch of the finest brand, there are some variance between each reed. If you start to follow certain procedure, stick with it on more reeds before you draw your conclusion whether such procedure works or not.

 

There are CRAPLOADS of online sources that show you how to adjust reeds. Google, Bing, and Yahoo are your friends.
My break in is: Put reed in mouth while putting horn together. Play.
If it has issues take it off and hit the problem areas with sand paper. Play.
I don't 'baby' my reeds. The first time on the mouthpiece they get the full range of the horn at all volumes for the entire practice session.
I'm too damned old to be farting around with swapping reeds every 5 minutes.

 

I don't 'baby' my reeds. The first time on the mouthpiece they get the full range of the horn at all volumes for the entire practice session.
I'm too damned old to be farting around with swapping reeds every 5 minutes.

+1 +1 +1 !!!

Except I may not be "too damned old...." I am just oldER.... Like mommy says "Play"...you should listen to Mommy .... I have a boat load of reeds right now left over from my Equinox and Phil-tone Meyer experimental days. I center my playiing around Vandoren java 3's ..... but when i get low on reeds, and to poor to buy some new ones I use whatever 2.5 or 3.5 may be around ...play the gig, get paid and buy some new reeds ...

 

Here's mine:

Take reed out of box
Insert into mouth for less than 1 minute
Put on mouthpiece
Blow

 

I agree with Allen and Saxy.

If I wanted to play with reeds, I would have stayed with oboe.

 

I find the following works for me, but it will depend on your set-up if it is correct for you . ..

` I use Vandoren V-16 Size 3 on Alto, tenor, and Soprano.
` I use 400 grit sandpaper and place the reed on the sandpaper on a piece of glass I had cut at the glass store.
` I leave the tip on the glass (about half a pinky nail length).
` I then sand the reed until the label is removed from the back of the reed.
` I then sand the reed from the top of the reed (bark) to the tip. I do this LIGHTLY. This is only to remove any microscopic burrs.
` I then wet the reed in my mouth while assembling the horn and play the following:
LOW Bb, C, B, C, C#, C, B, Bb as fast as possible
then a chromatic scale from Bb to E Altissimo or higher if I am having a good day.
` I then play a pivot scale off an octave c that descends chromatically to a low Bb.

This warms the horn, vibrates the reed and magnifies any issues. I also place the tip on the TABLE of the mouthpiece Perpendicular with my thumb squeezing the tip to the table and LIGHTLY tap the bark of the reed very carefully and then pull the reed out to create a flat and even tip.

The end result is a well playing reed that should play in tune and balanced. If you still have trouble, try rubbing the reed WHILE ON THE MOUTHPIECE AND ON THE HORN with you thumb from the Bark to the tip back and forth really fast. i.e. similar how you rub the glue off with friction that is left on your body when removing a bandage. You do the same to the reed here back and forth. This warms the reed and once again will help it play balanced and with good intonation.

Hope it helps.

 

I see a very long thread repeat in our future.....

 

I wish I could not "baby" my reeds, but if I didn't break them then they'd never last a gig. A classical alto reed right out of the box may not last 30 minutes for me. I think it might have something to do with the humidity in the area. Reeds seem to work better and last longer for me when I go further inland. Oh well.

First, I don't soak my reeds in water. I think constantly wetting and drying reeds has a negative effect because it makes the fibers of the reed swell and contract repeatedly. The solution is to not get them overly wet. Keeping them wet all the time works too. Believe it or not, if you waterlog a reed, it plays fine, but letting it dry out will cause havoc. But if you keep it wet in a bottle somewhere it'll continue to play fine as long as you never let it dry out. The other method is easier though.

Anyway, I just soak it in my mouth for a minute or so. Saliva is more corrosive that water but the reed won't get as wet which is what I prefer. I want a moist reed but not a soaked one.

First day I play a minute. 2nd day I play 2 minutes. 3rd-6th day I play 4 minutes. I play long tones. The first 3 days I start around middle Bb and go down chromatically as far as I can before time runs out, giving each note a full breath. On the 3rd day, if I reach low Bb before 4 minutes is up, I just stop. On days 4-6 I go up chromatically. Day 4 starting on Low D, Day 5 starting on Low G, and Day 6 starting on middle C. I usually get through somewhere between and octave and an octave + 5th before time runs out. The first few days I play mezzo piano and then move more into mezzo forte and forte.

Sometimes I'll adjust my reeds if they need it after the first 2 or 3 days and sometimes I'll wait until after the 6th day. Depends on how I feel. If a reed doesn't play very well at all, I'll do it sooner and if it still doesn't play well after adjustments then I'll throw it out.

And that's pretty much it. More intensive than some, less than others.

 

pop the brand new reed into the mouth. put on the mouthpiece and blow. if this brings too much resistance, I will just put on another of the weaker strength and repeat wetting the reed in my mouthpiece before the next gig/practice.

 

I'm not going to tell you how to condition or break in a reed. I'll tell you there are several sources for you to go to for some ideas. The old Larry Teal Art of Saxophone is one also I believe most of the major reed manufactures give recommendations on their websites.

 

(1) Moisten reed. (2) Affix reed to mouthpiece. (3) Blow.

 

Well, I appreciate your responses but I am still in the same situation. Too many diverse responses. I found the same situation with older thread about the same subject. I guess I was hoping to get response from the ones that tried With and Without break in for the same reed model, mouthpiece, etc. and tell me the experience they had to compare the consistency, life, etc. and trying to find a middle ground, something that perhaps prolongs the consistency and life of a reed without too much calculation and steps 1 to 20.
I contacted Rico and they just said play it only for 5 to 10 minutes for the first few times and then you should be good after that.

 

the ones that tried With and Without break in for the same reed model, mouthpiece, etc. and tell me the experience they had to compare the consistency, life, etc.

Seriously though, like they say in Maine...Ya cahn't get theyuh from heyuh.

The reason is that every single reed is a unique piece of organic plant life with it's own individual characteristics that make each and every one respond differently within a wide range of possibilities. So you can't set your clock by them, you can't make book on them and you definitely can't do a meaningful comparison test of prepping methods on them because every reed responds the way it alone responds and even that can vary from day to day depending on climatological conditions and perhaps even the phases of the moon. IMHO there is no common denominator for reed behavior other than that they are quirky and need to be dealt with individually.

I've taken reeds and not prepped them at all and had them last for months (in rotation playing every day) and I've had others of the same brands and hardness number that I prepped very carefully and then had them suddenly up and split or fall apart at the tip or just go sour and dead sounding within a couple of weeks. There's no rhyme or reason to how they behave and so there is no method IMO to ensure them doing well or prevent them from doing badly.

That's why most of the opinion on this thread so far is to just play them and not worry about all the mumbo jumbo. However, I'll be less rigid and say that you should do what works best for your time, budget and degree of anal retentiveness. That could be anywhere from nothing to a very involved procedure like Dave Sanborn's myriad little jars. Then when that method proves not to guarantee anything particularly meaningful, try a different method. When that proves to be a false hope too, you might just want to give up futzing around at all, and just play the things hoping for the best. To improve your chances however, IMO it helps to keep enough reeds in rotation so that when one doesn't want to cooperate at a given moment (it's uncanny how they do that) you can simply switch to another.

 

From Alexander Reeds:

http://www.superial.com/mainten_breakin.html

Breaking In A New Reed

We suggest that you break the reeds in by first soaking them for about 2-4 minutes in lukewarm to warm water, and making sure that the whole vamp, and not just the tip alone, gets wet (a reed that is too dry or only wet at the very tip might tend to squeak). Some players, especially in dry weather, prefer a little more soaking time and a some others like immersing the whole reed in the water. Then again, if you soak it for too long, it may end up becoming waterlogged, so try a balanced approach. And make sure you wet the reed each succeeding time you play thereafter, though you may find that as it gets broken in, less soaking time will be necessary.

After the soaking is operation is done, place the reed you want to prepare on glass or a similar flat surface and massage it (starting from the back of the vamp slope) with your finger or fingers several strokes forward towards the tip, in order to help close off the fiber ends and stabilize the cane.

Then comes the break-in secret, which is certainly no original idea of mine, but a time tested practice for reed longevity:

Break in the reeds you prepare by only playing them at no louder than mp-m and for the first day only a few minutes and maybe 5-10 minutes the second day.

By breaking them in at mezzo or softer and for not too long in the first couple of days, the reeds should last longer and be more stable for full bore playing later. Playing them all out in fortissimo from the first 2 days might overstress the tips.

The exception to the break in is: If the new reed you try feels a good bit too hard, you can skip the break in period and just play in normally from the first day.

A tendency of these reeds is to harden a little after a few days of playing, so you may find a slightly softer reed that will end up being perfect in a few days after break in. If you find a reed that is too hard even if you skip the break in.

 

Break in the reeds you prepare by only playing them at no louder than mp-m and for the first day only a few minutes and maybe 5-10 minutes the second day..

This seems to be pretty standard advice, and it's what I do. Seems to work pretty well and doesn't take any extra time. I'll break in a box of reeds this way, rotating them during a practice session for a couple of days. It's not difficult.

The real question I have is what is this thread doing in the tenor mpc section? Isn't it about reeds????

 

Warming some water quickly in a microwave is not the equivalent of soaking for 2 or 3 minutes in warm /luke warm water. The short soak time is to allow the reed to hydrate the entire reed which helps the reeds longevity and helps prevent cracks, curls and warping.

Alexander's site (as Dr G's posting) give virtually the same recommendations as Vandoren and Rico sites. Of course they are just the manufactures...what do they know?

As a matter of fact they should be saying ' just suck on it a minute or two and play that sucker' thus the reed will wear out, lose it's playability quicker, will have a bigger chance to warp and or crack and then the player will have to purchase more reeds more often!

arya44,
Just do some basic reading and you will get the ideas of reed prep. From there you can stay as simple or go as complex as you want.

 

One thing we can all agree on is that the reed needs to be wet, and the microwave really hydrates the reed without over water-logging it. My personal experience with the microwave is that it does the exact same thing as soaking but much much faster. Why waste time? 15-20 seconds in a bowl of water in the microwave is perfect. The idea is that the reed warps more with uneven distribution of moisture. The microwave warms, expands and forces moisture into the cane, under the bark and all around, doing exactly what 5 min of soaking achieves in a few seconds. Try it.

 

You're right - we agree that a reed needs to be wet (although I've always wondered why Plasticover reeds work as well as they do) and we want to avoid water logging.

The microwave warms, expands and forces moisture into the cane, under the bark and all around, doing exactly what 5 min of soaking achieves in a few seconds. Try it.

One observation: Microwaves react with water, water is not homogeneously distributed in a reed. A dry reed will have a different distribution than a reed that has residual moisture, therefore the method will have inconsistent results and not do "exactly what 5 minutes of soaking" will achieve.

 

I agree with everyone else that says you should just suck well and play..

the only thing I would add is that the continuous cycle of wet - dry -wet is more damaging for the reed than maintaining it in a continuously 'damp' state. If you practice everyday, then the reed retains a certain amount of moisture and is essentially good to go the whole time.. I find the reeds also last much better this way. It's just when you get old and lazy that reeds dry out and start warping and tend to deteriorate more rapidly..

 

the only thing I would add is that the continuous cycle of wet - dry -wet is more damaging for the reed than maintaining it in a continuously 'damp' state.

It's just when you get old and lazy that reeds dry out and start warping and tend to deteriorate more rapidly..

I haven't noticed this to be true. I always let the reed dry after using it, and often it will play better after drying and re-soaking (I only soak them for a couple of minutes at most). But then I haven't done anything close to a scientific experiment. I just don't like the idea of keeping a reed waterlogged all the time. And since I break in a box at a time, what am I to do with the reeds I'm not using yet? Keep them floating around in water? I guess I am kind of old and lazy, though.

I'd be willing to bet if someone did design and do a rigorous test to see if reeds last longer and play better when soaked all the time, or when allowed to dry out, or when simply sucked on, or any of the other things listed here, there would be no definitive conclusion reached.

 

I've tried everything to get reeds to function as best they can and have come to this conclusion; playing the saxophone keeps you humble. You can head to the gig feeling great about your cache of reeds and ten minutes into it, the tables of the reeds start to warp and you become absolutely frustrated. Or you can head to the gig thinking my reeds aren't working and then be pleasantly satisfied and feel on top of the world. It's best to have no expectations. Lol

 

Well it's certainly obvious reasonable minds can differ.

For what it's worth, I wet the reed with saliva. At both ends. I want moisture to wick itself down the capillaries of the reed. Personally, I think the reed wears too quickly if only the heart to the tip is wet. It seems to stress the fibers, not unlike steaming wood to bend for fine furniture. If it's not completely "wet" something is going to give.

I try to have four or five reeds available for backup, that is, ready to go. With every reed I write the date and my impression of it, on the back of the reed. E.g. 10/29 good, or buzzy, etc. I do use a Reed Geek to finesse the reed if needed. (Years ago I used reed rush and thought the ReedGeek was a gimmick, but I'm sold on it now.) I also place reeds on some sort of table to dry as I believe that keeps the tips in good shape. I previously used Selmer's case with glass table, and still do, but also the newer humidified cases.

Lastly, because I'm old and from an era... at the start of a gig, a few reeds went into a good glass of bourbon at my feet. Ready to play at a moment's notice, and damn, they taste good!