I've read about B&S 2001 and Medusas, but not a whole lot on the earlier 1000 Series III saxes. Can anyone pass along experiences with these horns? Thanks.
goodsax
Rob, B&S stenciled these horns for the Kawai music company here and they are not of the same quality of the 2001/Medusa....
My tech looked them over and was very unfavorably impressed with them.
I thought the construction was kind of cheap looking.
My tech looked them over and was very unfavorably impressed with them.
I thought the construction was kind of cheap looking.
Hi Rob, I think you are recalling my recommendation for a bari sax, not an alto or tenor:
I meant the B&S 1000 bari (which to me looks like a dead ringer for the Medusa and Guardala bari, save the engraving) or the Antigua bari....
Those are great values in a bari.
Finally, I believe (and I may be wrong on this) that the altos and tenors you are calling the "1000" were actually called the "600" series...which are the horns that Kawai music had stenciled for them. To my knowledge there were no "1000" model altos and tenors....produced concurrently with the 2001 models.There may have been a "1000" model tenor or alto prior to the "600", but i am not sure about that.
Did you see any information on the B&S site about a "1000" model tenor or alto specifically?
I know the bari existed under this model label.
I meant the B&S 1000 bari (which to me looks like a dead ringer for the Medusa and Guardala bari, save the engraving) or the Antigua bari....
Those are great values in a bari.
Finally, I believe (and I may be wrong on this) that the altos and tenors you are calling the "1000" were actually called the "600" series...which are the horns that Kawai music had stenciled for them. To my knowledge there were no "1000" model altos and tenors....produced concurrently with the 2001 models.There may have been a "1000" model tenor or alto prior to the "600", but i am not sure about that.
Did you see any information on the B&S site about a "1000" model tenor or alto specifically?
I know the bari existed under this model label.
This is a tenor: http://images.andale.com/f2/127/110/14735169/1113378472110_EBAY_4_19_05_009.jpg
and this is an alto:
http://i2.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/df/13/81_1_b.JPG
They are both B&S 1000 III's.
and this is an alto:
http://i2.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/df/13/81_1_b.JPG
They are both B&S 1000 III's.
mea culpa!:shock:
I just did a little net sleuthing and I found a little more info on the 1000 alto and tenor, which I didn't know existed!
From what I can gather the 1000 altos and tenors were designed as an lower cost intermediate horn (between their 500 line (now called the 600) and 2001 line) and sported a high F# just like their pro line does.
Reminds me a bit of what JK did with their EX line of horns....nearly identical in most major respects to the SX series with a few cost cutting measures taken here and there....
One report I read said that the horns played as well as the 2001, so I am left wondering if the 1000 was a 2001 body with cheaper keywork, etc...?
I noticed the high F# and F# trill keys were not the same design as the more ergonomic pro horns and that the engraving of the B&S 1000 Series III logo looked machined rather than hand engraved...so the horns keywork may have been partially taken from the 500- both signs of cost saving.
My guess on these horns is that they are probably a lot closer to the 2001 than the 500 model, in which case they may be a really good value (just like the 1000 model bari is).
*** another guess is that they were Taiwanese imports....but I have no particular reason to think so other than a few rumors I have heard about B and S selling Taiwan produced horns. I don't put much stock in these rumors- and I seriously doubt that B&S would use a Taiwanese horn for an intermediate line if they did import one. I mention it only because Selmer is doing that now with their La Voix series***
Since B&S phased this horn out, I suspect that the horns were either:
1. poor sellers
or
2. causing too much competetion within their own brand name. Basically, prohibiting sales of their higher priced 2001 because they were nearly identical in playing characteristics at a much lower cost.
A similar kind of marketing thing (only in reverse) happend back in the late 60's with the Bundy Special horns.
These were JK stencils (Tonekings-JK's pro line) that Bundy imported and tried to market as an intermediate horn when the German Mark was particularly weak against the dollar .
Soon people found how good they were and since they were only marginally more expenisve than the American produced, marching band staple Bundys, they soon out sold Bundys cash cow, the American produced student horns. Bundy dropped them from their line-up like a hot potato.
Bottom line I guess is that these 2 horns may indeed be great players, but the information is scant so I couldn't be entirely sure of my postulations, but given what I know about the 1000 bari, I would say maybe it is worth a shot.
You can try to contact VMI thru their website email to get the skinny, but my experience is that it is hit and miss getting a reply.
I'll give my German contact (a B&S dealer) a shout and see what he can find out about these horns....If they are indeed made with 2001 bodies, then these horns would be a real sleeper and a great value.
I just did a little net sleuthing and I found a little more info on the 1000 alto and tenor, which I didn't know existed!
From what I can gather the 1000 altos and tenors were designed as an lower cost intermediate horn (between their 500 line (now called the 600) and 2001 line) and sported a high F# just like their pro line does.
Reminds me a bit of what JK did with their EX line of horns....nearly identical in most major respects to the SX series with a few cost cutting measures taken here and there....
One report I read said that the horns played as well as the 2001, so I am left wondering if the 1000 was a 2001 body with cheaper keywork, etc...?
I noticed the high F# and F# trill keys were not the same design as the more ergonomic pro horns and that the engraving of the B&S 1000 Series III logo looked machined rather than hand engraved...so the horns keywork may have been partially taken from the 500- both signs of cost saving.
My guess on these horns is that they are probably a lot closer to the 2001 than the 500 model, in which case they may be a really good value (just like the 1000 model bari is).
*** another guess is that they were Taiwanese imports....but I have no particular reason to think so other than a few rumors I have heard about B and S selling Taiwan produced horns. I don't put much stock in these rumors- and I seriously doubt that B&S would use a Taiwanese horn for an intermediate line if they did import one. I mention it only because Selmer is doing that now with their La Voix series***
Since B&S phased this horn out, I suspect that the horns were either:
1. poor sellers
or
2. causing too much competetion within their own brand name. Basically, prohibiting sales of their higher priced 2001 because they were nearly identical in playing characteristics at a much lower cost.
A similar kind of marketing thing (only in reverse) happend back in the late 60's with the Bundy Special horns.
These were JK stencils (Tonekings-JK's pro line) that Bundy imported and tried to market as an intermediate horn when the German Mark was particularly weak against the dollar .
Soon people found how good they were and since they were only marginally more expenisve than the American produced, marching band staple Bundys, they soon out sold Bundys cash cow, the American produced student horns. Bundy dropped them from their line-up like a hot potato.
Bottom line I guess is that these 2 horns may indeed be great players, but the information is scant so I couldn't be entirely sure of my postulations, but given what I know about the 1000 bari, I would say maybe it is worth a shot.
You can try to contact VMI thru their website email to get the skinny, but my experience is that it is hit and miss getting a reply.
I'll give my German contact (a B&S dealer) a shout and see what he can find out about these horns....If they are indeed made with 2001 bodies, then these horns would be a real sleeper and a great value.
Now you're hitting on all cylinders!! Thanks for the informative feedback. There are a few days left for the 1000 tenor, but hours only for the alto. It won't be the end of the world if these slip by because there are always the Aloras (alto and tenor) that are hovering nearby.
I think you are right, and, the Alloras are a known quantity.
Still the price on that tenor is tempting to take a gamble on if it doesn't go over $500 or so....
My friends all tell me I am the devil.... :twisted:
Still the price on that tenor is tempting to take a gamble on if it doesn't go over $500 or so....
My friends all tell me I am the devil.... :twisted:
As in, "Randall made me do it!"? I can't imagine how anyone could be so terribly unfair...an inappropriate misnomer, IMNSHO.Randall said:
That said, the Aloras are a known thing compared to the Series 1000's? How so? The sandblast Alora tenor on eBay looks a lot like the B&S 2001 sandblast, complete with polished bell, but not polished keywork.
:badgrin: Yes Rob....but i really feel my being called the devil is undeserved.
I think I simply make suggestions ....
The Allora IS the 2001....and at a very good price!
And the 2001 is basically the same as the Medusa tenor....so, why wait!? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
I think I simply make suggestions ....
The Allora IS the 2001....and at a very good price!
And the 2001 is basically the same as the Medusa tenor....so, why wait!? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
The fellows that plays to the left of me in our community band plays a black nickle 1000 series III tenor and I can tell you it is indeed an incredible sounding horn. Having played it a couple of times I could not believe how free-blowing it is and the construction does not appear to be cheap in any way. It compares favorably in all ways to my own Medusa. I also own a BC550 Antigua and the 1000 smokes it.
Geez Rob-
Thanks for making me feel better about my GAS!!!! I thought I had it the worst when I saw you paring down your horns, and selling your beloved Yana! Now I feel I must say..
My name is Jeff... I'm a GASaholic...It has been zero days since I last satisfied my GAS. Yes. I've fallen off the wagon -hard. I loved the B&S 2001 tenor (notice I am not blaming Randall :evil: , or any of his glowing posts about B&S products for the tenor purchase) so much that I fell off the wagon for a Medusa alto. Just received it last night, gonna play it all night tonight, and take it to band practice tomorrow (if the wife doesn't go into labor first).
Now when I say fallen off hard, I mean to say, the Medusa was on its way and the GAS didn't subside. The devil :evil: forced me to bid on a Conn 444 clarinet in that den of serpents known as Ebay. I suspect I did this only in a desire to provide a new outlet for GAS - clarinet gear! I have sinned...
If I could only repent....
Thanks for making me feel better about my GAS!!!! I thought I had it the worst when I saw you paring down your horns, and selling your beloved Yana! Now I feel I must say..
My name is Jeff... I'm a GASaholic...It has been zero days since I last satisfied my GAS. Yes. I've fallen off the wagon -hard. I loved the B&S 2001 tenor (notice I am not blaming Randall :evil: , or any of his glowing posts about B&S products for the tenor purchase) so much that I fell off the wagon for a Medusa alto. Just received it last night, gonna play it all night tonight, and take it to band practice tomorrow (if the wife doesn't go into labor first).
Now when I say fallen off hard, I mean to say, the Medusa was on its way and the GAS didn't subside. The devil :evil: forced me to bid on a Conn 444 clarinet in that den of serpents known as Ebay. I suspect I did this only in a desire to provide a new outlet for GAS - clarinet gear! I have sinned...
If I could only repent....
Jeff...It seemed like only yesterday I owned an alto and a tenor..now, I have four tenors and three altos..it's like they multiply -like rabbits. :help:
You need to play it smart, Jmac. I shifted focus for two days and bought my wife some eBay jewelry (read paste?) that took some of the heat off. Now, she doesn't hover over my shoulder every time I log in...at least not yet. I have Elliot's Recording King Martin stencil being delivered today and I just scored an Antigua Winds A520LQ that's like new for a mere $142. I'm also the highest bidder on a B&S Series 1000 III tenor at the moment (to get back on topic). So, the battles continue and thirst remains unquenched.
Oh, I feel your pain Medusa Man, I also now have 3 altos, 4 tenors, one sop and one bari, and soon my first clarinet. I don't even play clarinet yet. Can't wait for a Bass, Contra-Bass, Sub-Contra Bass.....
Rob, you did play it smart! I usually log in while I'm at work, or she's watching the tube. Should have heard her laugh when I said I was watching an auction...
Rob, you did play it smart! I usually log in while I'm at work, or she's watching the tube. Should have heard her laugh when I said I was watching an auction...
B&S 1000 vs B&S2001 Tenors
Randall's sleuthing is pretty right on! I A-B ed the 1000 against the 2001 four years ago and bought the 2001in the sandblast finish. I would place the 1000 as intermediate where the 2001 is low end pro?
Also in the mix was a JK black nickel horn wich I thought was better mechanically then the 2001 and maybe? sounded a little better, but did not justify the price difference. I loved the horn and it is a great buy, but I have just sold it having purchased the Shadow to which nothing yet has come close.
Randall's sleuthing is pretty right on! I A-B ed the 1000 against the 2001 four years ago and bought the 2001in the sandblast finish. I would place the 1000 as intermediate where the 2001 is low end pro?
Also in the mix was a JK black nickel horn wich I thought was better mechanically then the 2001 and maybe? sounded a little better, but did not justify the price difference. I loved the horn and it is a great buy, but I have just sold it having purchased the Shadow to which nothing yet has come close.
The 1000 III is not a bad horn. We had a few in here a little over a year ago for eval... they were built as well as their pro horns. I do agree that they made it as an intermediate horn (but I think they marketed as student and then replaced them with the 600 series if memory serves correct).
The problem is that when they were new for the price, I do not think they justified it... however, if they were less, then I would have considered them. Definately is a good solid horn though and compared to an student or intermediate Selmer or Yamaha, the 1000 is probably all around the better horn.
The problem is that when they were new for the price, I do not think they justified it... however, if they were less, then I would have considered them. Definately is a good solid horn though and compared to an student or intermediate Selmer or Yamaha, the 1000 is probably all around the better horn.
I am resurrecting this thread to see if anyone has a B & S Series 1000 III Tenor for discussion.
It was recently gifted to me by my dad. I found this site which had some information on it.
Series 1000 | Bassic Sax (bassic-sax.info)
It was recently gifted to me by my dad. I found this site which had some information on it.
Series 1000 | Bassic Sax (bassic-sax.info)
The 1000 series is a continuation of the what is called the Blue Label but in gold lacquer mostly but sometimes two tone with silver keys and gold body. Point is it is not the professional series that came after that. The 1000 is a well built horn and plays well but it doesn’t have the modern refinement that the Medusa, 2001 and Dave Guardala.
I really enjoyed my 1000 series. It was my first tenor and the first horn I’d played in about ten years when I got it. My lesson teacher had a 2001 in that (almost) black lacquer that looks kind of brown. We’d swap often in lessons because we were both looking for new instruments. He got a shiny new gold lacquer Cannonball BBSS that I didn’t like to play on. I got a Cannonball Raven that was pretty nice but looking back, not really much/ at all better than the 1000…I had it in my head it was the intermediate model and needed an upgrade. I should’ve bought his 2001, but he had another student lined up to buy it. Someone else in his studio grabbed my 1000 as well if I recall correctly. Anyway, I really enjoyed playing the 1000.
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