I've read about B&S 2001 and Medusas, but not a whole lot on the earlier 1000 Series III saxes. Can anyone pass along experiences with these horns? Thanks.
goodsax
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Rob, B&S stenciled these horns for the Kawai music company here and they are not of the same quality of the 2001/Medusa....
My tech looked them over and was very unfavorably impressed with them.
I thought the construction was kind of cheap looking.
My tech looked them over and was very unfavorably impressed with them.
I thought the construction was kind of cheap looking.
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3,859 Posts
Hi Rob, I think you are recalling my recommendation for a bari sax, not an alto or tenor:
I meant the B&S 1000 bari (which to me looks like a dead ringer for the Medusa and Guardala bari, save the engraving) or the Antigua bari....
Those are great values in a bari.
Finally, I believe (and I may be wrong on this) that the altos and tenors you are calling the "1000" were actually called the "600" series...which are the horns that Kawai music had stenciled for them. To my knowledge there were no "1000" model altos and tenors....produced concurrently with the 2001 models.There may have been a "1000" model tenor or alto prior to the "600", but i am not sure about that.
Did you see any information on the B&S site about a "1000" model tenor or alto specifically?
I know the bari existed under this model label.
I meant the B&S 1000 bari (which to me looks like a dead ringer for the Medusa and Guardala bari, save the engraving) or the Antigua bari....
Those are great values in a bari.
Finally, I believe (and I may be wrong on this) that the altos and tenors you are calling the "1000" were actually called the "600" series...which are the horns that Kawai music had stenciled for them. To my knowledge there were no "1000" model altos and tenors....produced concurrently with the 2001 models.There may have been a "1000" model tenor or alto prior to the "600", but i am not sure about that.
Did you see any information on the B&S site about a "1000" model tenor or alto specifically?
I know the bari existed under this model label.
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mea culpa!:shock:
I just did a little net sleuthing and I found a little more info on the 1000 alto and tenor, which I didn't know existed!
From what I can gather the 1000 altos and tenors were designed as an lower cost intermediate horn (between their 500 line (now called the 600) and 2001 line) and sported a high F# just like their pro line does.
Reminds me a bit of what JK did with their EX line of horns....nearly identical in most major respects to the SX series with a few cost cutting measures taken here and there....
One report I read said that the horns played as well as the 2001, so I am left wondering if the 1000 was a 2001 body with cheaper keywork, etc...?
I noticed the high F# and F# trill keys were not the same design as the more ergonomic pro horns and that the engraving of the B&S 1000 Series III logo looked machined rather than hand engraved...so the horns keywork may have been partially taken from the 500- both signs of cost saving.
My guess on these horns is that they are probably a lot closer to the 2001 than the 500 model, in which case they may be a really good value (just like the 1000 model bari is).
*** another guess is that they were Taiwanese imports....but I have no particular reason to think so other than a few rumors I have heard about B and S selling Taiwan produced horns. I don't put much stock in these rumors- and I seriously doubt that B&S would use a Taiwanese horn for an intermediate line if they did import one. I mention it only because Selmer is doing that now with their La Voix series***
Since B&S phased this horn out, I suspect that the horns were either:
1. poor sellers
or
2. causing too much competetion within their own brand name. Basically, prohibiting sales of their higher priced 2001 because they were nearly identical in playing characteristics at a much lower cost.
A similar kind of marketing thing (only in reverse) happend back in the late 60's with the Bundy Special horns.
These were JK stencils (Tonekings-JK's pro line) that Bundy imported and tried to market as an intermediate horn when the German Mark was particularly weak against the dollar .
Soon people found how good they were and since they were only marginally more expenisve than the American produced, marching band staple Bundys, they soon out sold Bundys cash cow, the American produced student horns. Bundy dropped them from their line-up like a hot potato.
Bottom line I guess is that these 2 horns may indeed be great players, but the information is scant so I couldn't be entirely sure of my postulations, but given what I know about the 1000 bari, I would say maybe it is worth a shot.
You can try to contact VMI thru their website email to get the skinny, but my experience is that it is hit and miss getting a reply.
I'll give my German contact (a B&S dealer) a shout and see what he can find out about these horns....If they are indeed made with 2001 bodies, then these horns would be a real sleeper and a great value.
I just did a little net sleuthing and I found a little more info on the 1000 alto and tenor, which I didn't know existed!
From what I can gather the 1000 altos and tenors were designed as an lower cost intermediate horn (between their 500 line (now called the 600) and 2001 line) and sported a high F# just like their pro line does.
Reminds me a bit of what JK did with their EX line of horns....nearly identical in most major respects to the SX series with a few cost cutting measures taken here and there....
One report I read said that the horns played as well as the 2001, so I am left wondering if the 1000 was a 2001 body with cheaper keywork, etc...?
I noticed the high F# and F# trill keys were not the same design as the more ergonomic pro horns and that the engraving of the B&S 1000 Series III logo looked machined rather than hand engraved...so the horns keywork may have been partially taken from the 500- both signs of cost saving.
My guess on these horns is that they are probably a lot closer to the 2001 than the 500 model, in which case they may be a really good value (just like the 1000 model bari is).
*** another guess is that they were Taiwanese imports....but I have no particular reason to think so other than a few rumors I have heard about B and S selling Taiwan produced horns. I don't put much stock in these rumors- and I seriously doubt that B&S would use a Taiwanese horn for an intermediate line if they did import one. I mention it only because Selmer is doing that now with their La Voix series***
Since B&S phased this horn out, I suspect that the horns were either:
1. poor sellers
or
2. causing too much competetion within their own brand name. Basically, prohibiting sales of their higher priced 2001 because they were nearly identical in playing characteristics at a much lower cost.
A similar kind of marketing thing (only in reverse) happend back in the late 60's with the Bundy Special horns.
These were JK stencils (Tonekings-JK's pro line) that Bundy imported and tried to market as an intermediate horn when the German Mark was particularly weak against the dollar .
Soon people found how good they were and since they were only marginally more expenisve than the American produced, marching band staple Bundys, they soon out sold Bundys cash cow, the American produced student horns. Bundy dropped them from their line-up like a hot potato.
Bottom line I guess is that these 2 horns may indeed be great players, but the information is scant so I couldn't be entirely sure of my postulations, but given what I know about the 1000 bari, I would say maybe it is worth a shot.
You can try to contact VMI thru their website email to get the skinny, but my experience is that it is hit and miss getting a reply.
I'll give my German contact (a B&S dealer) a shout and see what he can find out about these horns....If they are indeed made with 2001 bodies, then these horns would be a real sleeper and a great value.
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I think you are right, and, the Alloras are a known quantity.
Still the price on that tenor is tempting to take a gamble on if it doesn't go over $500 or so....
My friends all tell me I am the devil.... :twisted:
Still the price on that tenor is tempting to take a gamble on if it doesn't go over $500 or so....
My friends all tell me I am the devil.... :twisted:
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3,859 Posts
:badgrin: Yes Rob....but i really feel my being called the devil is undeserved.
I think I simply make suggestions ....
The Allora IS the 2001....and at a very good price!
And the 2001 is basically the same as the Medusa tenor....so, why wait!? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
I think I simply make suggestions ....
The Allora IS the 2001....and at a very good price!
And the 2001 is basically the same as the Medusa tenor....so, why wait!? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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