Those are the standard type of flute pads. Bundy and some Armstrongs use snap in pads that have a nylon snap that looks like a sax resonator but the pad is the same felt type. The problem that you would have using sax type pads is the thickness. A flute pad is less than half the thickness of a sax pad and you will never get the key ehight much less the angle to be right. A good pad job on a flute should last at least 5 years and I have seen some that are more than 20 years but that is stretching it as raot sets in.
The way to pad a flute is to remove the screw and washer and put the new pad in using paper washers or shims to get the proper thickness. This makes the front and rear seat the same. Too many washers and the back hits first and too few make the back leak. The small trill keys use the same system as saxes (and piccolos) whereby the pads are floated in place with an adhesive.
Over the years I have thought about using a sax system, but finding the pads would be a problem and adjustments would be a greater problem. There is a type of pad (Straubinger) that has various materials built up but they cost over $100 a set vs. about $10 for standard pads.

 

The problem that you would have using sax type pads is the thickness. A flute pad is less than half the thickness of a sax pad and you will never get the key ehight much less the angle to be right.

how about clarinet pads? haven't had them side by side, but the kangaroo clarinet pads I've used seem if not the same at least closer in thickness.
I get my pads from this guy http://instrumentclinicusa.com/

 

Sorry to revive this old thread, but I just wanted to add that I've started re-padding flutes with black Roo Pads for some of the sax players in town. They work great, but there is definitely a learning curve involved. And depending on the flute, some key modifications might be needed.
The most recent conversion I did was to a Gemeinhardt 3shb for a gent who was starting to have some reach problems due to arthritis. I silver soldered some "permanent" plugs in place, removed the spuds, and padded with black Roo pads and small rivitless resonators. It was expensive because I had to send the keys out to be silver-plated after modification.
But it turned out great!

 

Those leather punches work great. The problem is finding the exact ceter of the pad. It sounds easy, but it's not.

 

I have a six-hole punch similar to what cyclopathic showed us. I use it for many things in the shop, including punching holes in plain sax pads. For plain sax pads, I find the centers either by eye or by measurement, depending on the size of the pad.

Ferree's (possibly others, too) makes a set of tools designed to punch larger holes in flute pads, so they will fit in an open hole pad cup. The system basically works like this: place the pad in the appropriate die, each of which has a hole in the middle to accommodate the punch. http://www.ferreestools.com/woodwindtools/woodwind-pad tools.html

In your case, you could machine a punch with a smaller hole to fit the existing dies. Or, you (or a friend with a lathe) could just machine your own set based on what you need...

 

Ferree's (possibly others, too) makes a set of tools designed to punch larger holes in flute pads, so they will fit in an open hole pad cup. The system basically works like this: place the pad in the appropriate die, each of which has a hole in the middle to accommodate the punch. http://www.ferreestools.com/woodwindtools/woodwind-pad tools.html

In your case, you could machine a punch with a smaller hole to fit the existing dies. Or, you (or a friend with a lathe) could just machine your own set based on what you need...

Ferree's makes that already. The N79Y punch will do the job and fits the existing dies.. Or just order the regular punch and specify the hole size you want for Curtis.

 

A simple tool for finding the center of a circle.
http://www.robotroom.com/CircleCenter.html

 

great idea for <$20.. I'll get one, thnx!

Edit: just looked at micromark and for $10 more they also have one with 5" capacity

http://www.micromark.com/center-square-2-1and2-inch-capacity,7953.html
http://www.micromark.com/Center-Square-5-Inch-Capacity,8433.html

 

I have a similar tool. If I am using say a ballpoint, I would draw lines using the tool 4 quadrants rather than two. Then the centre is in the middle of the square made by the drawn lineds in the middle. (This makes allowance for the thickness of the drawing tool, eg ballpoint.)

A wider-ended marking tool produces a larger square, and then it is very easy to center the punch in the middle of that square.

Google <<centre square>> to find sources for this tool.

 

Thanks guys! I'll get one soon!!! I've received another request to convert a flute to Roo pads and I will try the new clarinet style pads.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions. I can't believe I didn't think of machining a new punch for the french pad cutter I already have. You know, the first thing that goes when you are getting old is the mind!!!

 

Ferree's makes that already. The N79Y punch will do the job and fits the existing dies.. Or just order the regular punch and specify the hole size you want for Curtis.

Yes, it seems that I also have a case of early-onset CRS...thanks for the tip, JButky.

 

I was thinking of trying this on an old flute I have. The clarinet roo pads on Musicmedic are 3.1-3.2mm. Would the slight difference in thickness be an issue? I was thinking of two ways to try to do this. One was to use the screws and install slightly larger flat metal resos. The other idea was to remove the screws and use small domed metal resos and float them in with shellac. Can the spuds for the screws be removed? Are they silver soldered or soft soldered?

 

Stick with conventional bladder pads. Any flute that I have had come in with leather pads has been a mess mostly due to the pads being too thick and/or mushy. It may work on a bass or alto but not for a C flute

 

Likewise.

 

I've got to disagree guys. There's definitely a learning curve with roo pads, but if you don't want to learn it, just use leather bass clarinet/bassoon pads. They are very thin and float in easily. The roo pads I have in my model 20 are working out great and stayed seated very well. On my next flute I will try the clarinet pads.

 

If it not supposed to be done I just gotta try it. Not to affend the seasoned flautists and repairmen here but the idea that you must use bladder pads and shim them as apposed to floating them in with shellac sounds like dogma to me. After all, early boehm flutes had their pads floated in. So, I ordered a couple black saxgourmet clarinet pads for a trial fit in an old no name american made flute. The pads are thinner than the bladder pads I removed (old) and could easily be shimmed like a regular bladder pad, I am going to try floating them in with shellac and using slightly larger flat resos. I will report back and let you know if it works. And eat crow if it doesn't :doubt:

 

Yes, I like to experiment but somehow the old bladder pads just seal better for a longer time.

 

Are they fish bladders?

 

I used to buy it locally from a supplier who told me they produced it from the buoyancy air bladder of a particular fish. (That would account for the terms "fish skin" & "bladder")
And that seems likely: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swim_bladder

It was generally called "goldbeaters skin" in those days, that term coming from the way it was interleaved for beating thin sheets of gold down to 1 micron thick, to use as gold leaf.

But in the last few decades I have only heard of the membrane being produced from part of the intestine wall of an animal. Perhaps effectively the same as sausage skin?

For "goldbeaters skin", wiki says: "Goldbeater's skin-the outer membrane of a calf's intestine-is a parchment traditionally used in the process of making gold leaf by beating, reducing gold into mere 1 ?m-thick leaves..."

The bottom right of this page tells how it is prepared: http://www.forrestsmusic.com/thread.htm

 

Interesting. I thought as much. Since fish are getting scarce something from a farm animal would seem more consistant.

 

All other things being set up as best they can... In order to seal, a key must be pressed hard enough to overcome the spring tension, then a bit more to flatten the microscopic imperfections in the surface of the pad until no air can leek.

Bladder pad membrane needs far less pressure to achieve that than does any leather that I know of.
Flute players like to press keys as lightly as possible. Therefore goldbeaters skin is used.
It would be great for saxes too, but I doubt it would last long enough. It does not last long on certain cheap (now vintage?) models of flute (eg the cheaper version of Grassi student flutes) with drawn, unrolled tone holes like saxes mostly have.

The flutes I have encountered with leather pads invariably leak very badly unless played with gorilla grip.

Furthermore, flutes, with their light springing, cope worse with sticking pads than saxes do. Sealed-surface leather pads are much more likely to stick than unsealed. But unsealed pads are typically porous. Porosity = leaks. The low notes of a flute tolerate leaks far less than do saxes.

So I'm not trying leather flute pads. It does not make sense to me.

 

Gordon, I respectfully disagree with your line of reasoning. I've worked for professional sax players that play with an extremely light touch. The leather pads seal just fine with light presure when seated properly. I am also a proponent of clamping sax keys LIGHTLY closed after the sax is swabed and put in the case. This can be done on the older horns with a cork pressed lightly between the bell and lower stack keys. On selmer style horns it is more problematic but there are sax clamps available that fit inside the case . On flutes I accomplish this by placing some small pieces of "peel and stick" closed cell door insulation on the lid of the case that press the C,A,G,F,E,D,& low C keys LIGHTLY closed when the case is closed.
I've got a couple of professional musicians trying out their flutes repaded with roo pads. The jazz guy wanted black roo with domed rivitless resonators (I had to take the smallest I could find and make them smaller). The classicly oriented flautist wanted white roo and I used the same reso set up. So far, both are extremely happy with this new fangled concept. On my own Conn model 20-O (which I play everyday for at least an hour or more) I drop my leak light in every day before I start and after I finish and have found the seats to hold up well and be leak free. I anticipate that these leather pads will last much longer and be more worry free than traditional bladder. Time will tell.
I think it's a great idea for school flutes, especially those that are used for marching band and sometimes get soaked in the frequent fall rain storms we have here in the northeast. But right now the cost of the job makes it prohibative for the parents of most school children and the resistence of the music educators who are very rooted in tradition doesn't help either.