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Your experiences with LA Sax?

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17K views 50 replies 19 participants last post by  Elliot G.  
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#1 ·
I work at a fairly small instrument repair shop that is very respectable in terms of how they are seen and the work they do. One of the ways they do that is by refusing to try to work on instruments that would be hard to fix due to a weaker assembly or cheap setup; think Mendini/Cecilio, Jean Paul and other Amazon saxes. To my surprise, LA Sax was on that list of instruments. I had heard not generally positive things but also not negative things about the brand, and was wondering if anyone might have any explanation as to why we won't fix them- the list was written some time ago by someone that is no longer at the shop.

Thank you all for the discussion!
 
#2 ·
I've never had experience with them. But maybe why they won't fix them is because of the flashy finish? I was talking to a few people about maybe painting my sax (It's a Jean Paul so it wont damage much lol!) and someone brought up the fact that I would have to consider how the finish would look if it was needed to be repaired. With that being it could be because they didn't like to have to be careful with the lacquer of the instrument, or with customers complaining about how the finish was damaged. I could be completely wrong, and they could be cheaply made for all I know. But this might be a reason why. Some LA saxes are gold or normal colored, but most of them I've seen sport some... Questionable paint jobs.
6956
6957
6958
6959
(I kinda like the pink and yellow one, it's very very.. Unique? lol!)
 
#3 ·
I don't know why they would single out LA Sax at this late stage of the Asian sax invasion where there are saxes pouring in from Taiwan, China, Viet-Nam and who knows where else. That's like saying you won't work on 1992 Hondas - how many are actually still in use?
In this case techs in general better just forget about not working on this kind of sax because they are becoming more and more prevalent AND they are working their way up to the upper levels of the sax world.
LA Sax was really the first intrusion of the Taiwan sax into the USA and it was a marketing masterpiece with all the different finishes and pro player affiliation. As it turns out, they were decent horns for the money and no other brand of that type has gotten the attention that LA Sax did.
 
#5 ·
Sounds like a pretty lame business model to me. Refusing to repair an instrument because it doesn't fit someone's criteria of what is a quality instrument seems counter productive to making money. Some of those "cheap" saxophones are just as well if not better constructed than some vintage horns. Sounds to me like you're working for some saxophone snobs ...
 
#6 ·
Have had a tech do this with my Jean Paul and try to sell me a Jupiter. Just made me reluctant to even get my saxophone fixed, I'll do it myself. (Recently fixed some leaks on it it's become quiet the horn, I'm surprised.)

There is only a few brands I would understand to not be fixed up. Especially Mendinis. If I was a tech I would maybe fix it up once before trying to inform the person they should try something better. In my experience watching my peers with Mendinis, made me feel bad. Their metal is so bendable that they'd bend their keys sometimes to get them to play. Needless to say I'd rather inform than charge a huge fee, and take a lot of time, on a crappy instrument like that. This could be just me though.
 
#15 ·
A blanket policy is easy for the shop, but off-putting to the customer. Consider adopting a case-by-case evaluation of the instrument, and talking to the customer about the expense of repairs. Yes, it may take some extra time, but the customer will become better informed, develop trust in your shop, and be more likely to return or promote your business by word of mouth.
 
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#16 ·
My Dad owned a bike shop when I was growing up and he had a policy that he wouldn’t repair any Huffy/Murray or any other cheap Walmart bike. It wasn’t because he was a brand snob, but the problem was that people would bring them in for repair and then never pick them up because the cost for the repair wasn’t worth paying relative to the value of the bike. Compounding the issue, those cheaper bikes were harder to work on, requiring more time from the shop. At the end of the day he decided that it was better for the shop to just refuse to work on the low end cheap stuff.
 
#21 ·
Tranechaser said:
My Dad owned a bike shop when I was growing up and he had a policy that he wouldn't repair any Huffy/Murray or any other cheap Walmart bike. It wasn't because he was a brand snob, but the problem was that people would bring them in for repair and then never pick them up because the cost for the repair wasn't worth paying relative to the value of the bike. Compounding the issue, those cheaper bikes were harder to work on, requiring more time from the shop. At the end of the day he decided that it was better for the shop to just refuse to work on the low end cheap stuff.
Click to expand...
Yeah well, once again not a good business decision. My remedy for that situation is to price the work accordingly and collect 50% payment up front.
 
#22 ·
That case made quite a few "waves" and is quite well known in the band instrument repair industry. First Act apparently had the "deep pockets" to take the case to trial. It should be noted that today First Act only sells inexpensive guitars, drum sets, and electronic keyboards. They have gone out of the band and orchestra instrument business completely. Unfortunately there are scores ultra cheap Chinese instruments to take their place. At least First Act made an effort to recruit techs to work on them and to provide them with free replacement parts. (That should tell you something about the company knowing how dependable their instruments really were.)

The real damage done by these ultra cheap ISO's (instrument shaped objects) that are "band director approved" and come with a pair of white gloves sold on Ebay is to the school beginning band programs all over the country. The parents who often have no musical knowledge or background fall for the marketing and low price with the notion that the instrument will be good enough to see if their student is going to succeed in band. Then if they do succeed, they will spring for a better instrument. The problem is that equipped with an instrument that is constantly needing repair and adjustment because of how poorly they are constructed, and how badly they play out of tune those students have two strikes against them before they even start and most of them drop out their first year. I have had many years experience with these instruments on both sides of the counter as a beginning band teacher and as a professional woodwind repair tech. It is a tough position to be in when a parent brings an instrument of this type in to be repaired, and you have to tactfully break it to them that it will cost as much or more than they paid for it to have it made playable. And then because of the low quality of the materials they are made from, there is no warranty on the repair. Several years ago NAPBIRT produced a pamphlet directed at parents in an effort to mitigate this problem. I've attached a copy in case anyone would like to read it or share with someone you know who might be interested.
 

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#30 ·
lacquer is rather resistent unless you apply heat for a very long time.

The loctite ( how much did you apply and where) will hopefully burn before the lacquer does, I don’t understand which screw kept of falling out that you had to glue it with superglue .

By the way, there is nothing special about a Jean Paul saxophone that you need to send it for repairs to the Jean Paul place wherever or whatever is, saxophones are generally repaired used parts and components available to any repairers .
 
#31 ·
milandro said:
lacquer is rather resistent unless you apply heat for a very long time.

The loctite ( how much did you apply and where) will hopefully burn before the lacquer does, I don't understand which screw kept of falling out that you had to glue it with superglue .

By the way, there is nothing special about a Jean Paul saxophone that you need to send it for repairs to the Jean Paul place wherever or whatever is, saxophones are generally repaired used parts and components available to any repairers .
Click to expand...
I'm not great with jet names, but it's the screw that holds down the G-sharp key. I'll be going to the store and getting some loctite today, the stuff that's easier to remove.
 
#32 ·
Sometimes screws need to be held in with adhesive. Example: Yanagisawa does that on the upper screws that hold in the LH pinky keys.
They have not always done that, but they seem to have done it for some time now.
Dave Kessler was pretty sure they had when I called him to get some spare screws once one had backed itself out of one of my older Yany tenors.

Went something like this ...

DK: "Those screws have adhesive. Those should never back out."
Me: "Well, Dave ... MY tenor did not get any adhesive. Screw is missing and another is loose"
DK: "Maybe that screw was removed once and the tech did not remember or know to use adhesive."
Me: "I have the whole sax apart. No adhesive anywhere."
DK: " ... "
 
#34 ·
datsaxman said:
Sometimes screws need to be held in with adhesive. Example: Yanagisawa does that on the upper screws that hold in the LH pinky keys.
They have not always done that, but they seem to have done it for some time now.
Dave Kessler was pretty sure they had when I called him to get some spare screws once one had backed itself out of one of my older Yany tenors.

Went something like this ...

DK: "Those screws have adhesive. Those should never back out."
Me: "Well, Dave ... MY tenor did not get any adhesive. Screw is missing and another is loose"
DK: "Maybe that screw was removed once and the tech did not remember or know to use adhesive."
Me: "I have the whole sax apart. No adhesive anywhere."
DK: " ... "
Click to expand...
The screw I have problems with loosens when I play. So it gets pretty annoying to have to screw it back it every time I stop. So I did what any uninformed person would do. Stick some glue on it and call it good.
 
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#35 ·
Good discussion, all. The reason we do not fix a lot of the instruments on the list is not solely because of the quality, but due to the lack of parts available on said instruments. It makes sense because most (all but two, LA Sax and Glenn Edwards[which has an asterisk in and of itself for a case by case basis]) of the instrument brands on the list are the $200-$300 instrument brands you can find on amazon, and the parts and labor are just not worth what the instrument is. I was just confused because I saw LA Sax on the list, but apparently the newer iterations by Gemeinhardt have readily available parts.
 
#38 ·
using loctite may not be necessary.

the simple (and old fashioned ) use of nail varnish was adopted for this purpose ages ago.

Anyway , that screw (actually two screws G# / Bis regulation in most modern saxophones) wasn’t always present on saxophones and you could simply remove or replace the cork and bring it to the right height with some sandpaper (as it is done with horns without that screw)
 
#39 ·
milandro said:
using loctite may not be necessary.

the simple (and old fashioned ) use of nail varnish was adopted for this purpose ages ago.

Anyway , that screw (actually two screws G# / Bis regulation in most modern saxophones) wasn't always present on saxophones and you could simply remove or replace the cork and bring it to the right height with some sandpaper (as it is done with horns without that screw)
Click to expand...
I was working on getting it out tonight and it budged a bit. Found out screws were really fragile on it too since this one screw stripped real quick. Had to take the whole part off, I'm soaking the one end in rubbing alcohol. We'll see how it does tomorrow morning. I did everything too, nail polish remover and heat. Just a huge pain.
 
#46 ·
Saw the link. As of right now I've been soaking the part in rubbing alcohol and it won't even budge. We're going to try a higher strength rubbing alcohol that they use in computer chip making. But I've contacted Jean Paul incase that doesn't work. They'll reply Monday since that's when they're open but I might just have to replace that whole part. Lesson learned, no super glue again! I didn't think I would be taking the sax apart 11 months ago, so now look where we are! Stupid me stupid me..
 
#48 ·
milandro said:
as far as I know (despite what they tell you at loctite) alcohol doesn't do much to loctite

I still don't understand why you want to have your horn done at Jean Paul, it is a saxophone and any repairer could and should be able to help you
Click to expand...
I'm trying alcohol as of right now just to see. Don't want to dip it in nail remover and heat didn't make it budge. I'm not wanting to send it to JP. I'm talking about getting a replacement part shipped to me from them. The screw in the part is glued in pretty good and is also stripped. It's a simple part to take on and off so I think JP can easily replace it. I can try putting the part over the stove top for awhile and then try. My torch hasn't came in yet so stove top sounds like the best option for heat.(If I'm wrong correct me.) I was just using simple means of heat like a lighter. But no, I will not ship my JP off for repair. Too much of a hassle.
 
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