[sandster]

I’m reading an interesting book on breathing: “breath” by James Nestor. Maybe not totally for wind players but a good look at breathing in general. One D. Sanborn is mentioned as being helped by a pulmonaut named Carl Stough. Nestor’s book is a very good read for anyone interested in breathing. 😤

 

[Ixthusdan]

Breath? What do you mean? I have not breathed since 1982, and I am OK. Well, except for all those people yelling "Zombie" all the time. That is sort of irritating.

 

[NO SAX]

I believe practicing breathing techniques is important because if I just go to the sax and start playing a long three/four measure note I’m puffed out. If I warm up to it I’m fine but still I’m just working on instinct only not skills.

 

[Dr G]

I believe practicing breathing techniques is important because if I just go to the sax and start playing a long three/four measure note I’m puffed out. If I warm up to it I’m fine but still I’m just working on instinct only not skills.

Iterating…. Please get some lessons. A voice coach can help with this. No sarcasm. I studied voice with an opera singer back in the ‘70s, and it propelled my sound on tenor.

 

[Ixthusdan]

All joking aside, I learned how to breath with an instructor beginning in 1968. After a while, you read the music and see where to breath. Your ability improves with the necessary discipline. Decent instruction helps with phrasing as well.

 

[CatDuet]

I find breathing as a singer easy. But trying to maintain the sax air pressure while running out on a long phrase or playing low note long tones gets me really tensed up. I find myself breathing in on the next breath with a constricted airway and my thumbs and shoulders racking up unpleasant tension. I would love to be able to practice low note long tones more, but in just a few minutes I start to hurt. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong. It is the last part of the long exhalation that I can't seem to do without becoming a ball of tension. I practice long phrases even though the tension comes, because I need to be able to push myself past my boundaries in a performance, but I wish I could develop better patterns for dealing with it. Perhaps I need to slow down and analyze what's going on more.

Exellent info, everyone!

 

[JohnsonPowerSax]

All sax players should start on clarinet.

Hard disagree. I would've quit after a year on clarinet.

 

[saxoclese]

All sax players should start on clarinet.

I started on saxophone and didn't touch a clarinet until I was a music ed major in college in my early 20's. Since the transfer from clarinet to sax is much easier than the transfer from sax to clarinet, I wished I had started on clarinet. Another advantage of starting on clarinet is that it helps to open the door for "doubles" later on. It also teaches discipline in hand position and playing with pressurized air since it has more "resistance" than sax.

 

[Dr G]

I started on saxophone and didn't touch a clarinet until I was a music ed major in college in my early 20's. Since the transfer from clarinet to sax is much easier than the transfer from sax to clarinet, I wished I had started on clarinet. Another advantage of starting on clarinet is that it helps to open the door for "doubles" later on. It also teaches discipline in hand position and playing with pressurized air since it has more "resistance" than sax.

... because clarinet is so similar to flutes, oboe, and bassoon.

Isn't clarinet actually the odd one out in the woodwind family?

 

[Bottle Opener]

"Why aren’t all beginning wind players first taught the correct way to breathe?" What we have here is a couple of assertions concealed in a question. How do you know what all beginning wind players are taught? And what is the correct way, or is there in fact a correct way?

 

[CliveMA]

Swim laps 20+ minutes every day. If you don't drown you'll be breathing in a way somewhat similar to playing the saxophone, without any of the overanalysing.

Seriously, more wind musicians should spend a lot more time working on aerobic and anaerobic fitness. National guidelines for the general population are 150 minutes moderate exercise per week. How few musicians get that? And they wonder why they are having trouble breathing. Don't neglect the fundamentals. And the fundamentals should begin with an exercise program.

 

[Wonko]

Let me add my personal experience on this subject.
Most of what I have read and seen on this subject is IMHO missing the point.
They all tell us that breathing is important, that you need to breathe from the belly (abdomen, .....) and of course, those things are important.
Myself, I always did that (from my background in Aikido, where breathing exercises are also important). But there was something lacking....
About 6 months ago I started working (with my teacher) on my breath support. She explained how it is more about controlling how much air you release when breathing out and keeping a constant pressure.
She is also a singing teacher and gave me a PDF-version of "Complet Vocal technique" where breathing and breath support are explained very well. I can feel now that I am starting to understand (and master) what I need to get a good breath support.
....
In short: most people who explain how to breathe miss the points about breath support

 

[ROC]

Agreed. Good players can produce a great tone and even long notes with not a lot of air in the lungs…but with the correct support.

 

[FisherSax]

... because clarinet is so similar to flutes, oboe, and bassoon.

Isn't clarinet actually the odd one out in the woodwind family?

The clarinet is a bit of all of them. The clarion register fingerings match flute/oboe to some degree. The chalumeau register and bassoon are similar fingerings but the fact that they're written in different clefs more or less cancels out any immediate transferability.

Given how different clarinet and sax embouchures are I agree that this bit of conventional wisdom doesn't hold up.



All woodwind players should start on recorder.

 

[FisherSax]

The volume of air you need to take in is required for the right muscles in your midsection to pressurize the airstream, not because that much air actually moves through the horn. This is easier to demonstrate on trumpet. Just tape a bag over the bell and play a long tone; the bag barely fills up.

 

[Zippypinhead]

Short answer: because the teachers were never taught how to breathe. Over the years, doing private lessons with school age kids, I always ask if they were taught how to breathe in their regular band class. Usually the answer is "no", or just the usual "take a full breath and keep support" type of thing. With beginners I always start with getting them on the road to learning to breathe correctly. A teacher of mine in college took a lesson with Joe Allard. The first thing Allard had him do was, not so much an exercise, but a method to find out what it feels like to take a breath correctly. What you do is lay on the floor with your arms relaxed at your sides. Bring your feet up underneath you, under you butt, raising it off the floor a bit, still in a relaxed position. Then take a breath. It should force you to breathe from you abdomen. There's another method for those who don't want to lay on the floor to try that. Sit in a chair with your butt right on the edge, and then sit back with the worst possible posture you can do; a really curved back, not forced. Same thing: breath. For most people this will have the same effect as the laying on the floor method.

 

[Saxaway]

Some thoughts on breathing from Joe Allard
around 23.50.

And from a series of vids that include breathing mechanism based on Allard's teaching by Harvey Pittel

 

[largo]

Hi all. This question came to me during my practice session today, as I’ve been trying to use my diaphragm correctly. This is what I’m trying to learn: bring your air in through the mouth, filling your lungs right to their bottom, by pushing down the diaphragm, then keeping it down until you need to gradually force the air back out. Am I correct? Whatever, I think correct breathing technique should be part of the very first lessons, and probably it should constantly stressed. Opinions anyone?

I have been a teacher for many many years and I found that there are so many concepts coming at students all at once that things have to be presented slowly (and repeatedly), pretty much one thing at a time. Everyone is different so one student will get the fingering quick, another will get reading, another rhythm, etc.ect. I found that breathing technique instruction is a necessary with repeated lessons and reminders.

 

[turf3]

Thing is, if you're talking about a band director in the school band hall, they've only got so much time to corral the forty or so sixth graders to just get them to shut the hell up, sit down, and work on learning the few pieces they need to learn, plus whatever instruction on a whole plethora of things they can shove into the allotted time (music theory, reading, technique of the individual instrument, etc., etc., etc.) Breath control is going to get as much time as it can, but there are a lot of competing factors. A band full of kids who don't breathe very well but who play the tunes with reasonable timing and intonation will still sound OK.

It's going to happen in individual lessons if it happens at all.

 

[FisherSax]

Thing is, if you're talking about a band director in the school band hall, they've only got so much time to corral the forty or so sixth graders to just get them to shut the hell up, sit down, and work on learning the few pieces they need to learn, plus whatever instruction on a whole plethora of things they can shove into the allotted time (music theory, reading, technique of the individual instrument, etc., etc., etc.) Breath control is going to get as much time as it can, but there are a lot of competing factors. A band full of kids who don't breathe very well but who play the tunes with reasonable timing and intonation will still sound OK.

It's going to happen in individual lessons if it happens at all.

Yup, that sums it up. I teach some breathing and articulation before they even get their instruments. Once they have them in their hands there are 50 other things to work on.