Difficult to do a blind test and not notice that!

Real effects include: Change in balance on the horn, and inertial effects pressing against the lip...

Try a Ted Klum London for the heaviest and loudest tenor mouthpiece I have played. Do heavy and loud correlate? No, but it is heavy and it is loud. It was shiny too. Maybe that has something to do with it.

 

Difficult to do a blind test and not notice that!

Real effects include: Change in balance on the horn, and inertial effects pressing against the lip...

Try a Ted Klum London for the heaviest and loudest tenor mouthpiece I have played. Do heavy and loud correlate? No, but it is heavy and it is loud. It was shiny too. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Yeah, there's no way it was anything like a blind test. But it sure does sound a lot different, and behave rather differently unless the player is going out of his way to be deceptive.

The balance of the horn would definitely change, and could alter the player/instrument interface. But that explanation still seems lacking to me...I dunno, maybe it is that simple. Seems like the kind of thing that could be easily measured or tested with a robotic embouchure or something.

 

Seems like the kind of thing that could be easily measured or tested with a robotic embouchure or something.

Except that a robot embouchure is exactly only that. Lips are dynamic, as is the changing pressure against them during play. As I noted, the extra mass will change the amount of inertia that resists the mouthpiece moving in space/time relative to the player. To test that, I would similarly weight the horn with an equivalent mass that is not on the mouthpiece.

 

Except that a robot embouchure is exactly only that. Lips are dynamic, as is the changing pressure against them during play. As I noted, the extra mass will change the amount of inertia that resists the mouthpiece moving in space/time relative to the player. To test that, I would similarly weight the horn with an equivalent mass that is not on the mouthpiece.

Yeah fair point. I have seen saxophones played by machines though, and assume (perhaps wrongly out of ignorance) that a trumpet wouldn't be THAT different, and then we could get some unbiased measurements out of it. Come to think of it, I could put that robot to good use testing sax products for me.

Also, yes, it'd be interesting to have them play a 5lb bell or something.

 

It is well known that shiny horns are the loudest. The reflective properties make them loud. It’s somehow related to less light absorption resulting in greater sound production. It also makes a brighter sound.

 

Did you watch the video?

 

At 5:40 in the video he plays a similar passage back to back on both and I hear absolutely zero difference.
But I am sure the thing is good exercise. I would make sure to balance it out with a little tricep workout and maybe some lat work as well.

 

this seems pretty sensible:

Mon, Wed, and Fridays- 1. you gigatone all 12 major scales 3 reps each in any order you choose (be creative).
2. pull ups as many reps as you can, 3 sets, then grab some dumbells and do your favorite triceps routine.

tues, Thurs,- Leg work

sunday weekly ear cleaning and chillax! Take a day off. If that makes you feel guilty, do some minor scales with a normal non magical mouthpiece.

 

I watched the " test" and found that the space for confirmation bias is just enormous .



anyway, there are plenty of vibrationalists ( I claim to have applied this therm years ago in this context ) around and there are also those who claim that actually lighter horns play better.

In these times anyone can just about say anything and find followers.

 

Yes, of course there is room for bias. Nobody is claiming this was a scientifically valid experiment.

Note that confirmation bias goes both ways though. As far as I can tell, in order to hold a conviction that there absolutely is no difference in how the mouthpieces perform, we'd need to assume that his belief in the differences between the two mouthpieces is so strong that it has obvious-to-the-listener impact on his playing, or that the player faked all of the (marked) differences between the two - different response, different timbre, different slurring/slotting - and then come up with a plausible reason for why he would do that, when the mouthpiece is a prototype and is not for sale.

I think some combination of factors seems plausible - as Dr G said it may rest against the lips differently due to weight/balance, it may provide different auditory/kinetic feedback to the player which creates a feedback loop with his technique, that extreme amount of mass so close to the point of tone generation may affect the sound somehow (possibly by absorbing certain frequencies, rather than by vibrating, for example).

Also please not that nobody said it was "better" or "worse" just that it was different - so if there is in fact difference between heavier and lighter mouthpieces, it would simply come down to individual preference.

 

the bell may make a difference

they have studied the influence of bells on brass instruments (which work on different principles) and it does make a difference. Brass instruments have coupling which doesn't occur in woodwinds , maybe the surdimentioned mouthpiece may have an influence on that.

Brass instrument bell vibrations and coupling to air modes

The vibrations of brass instrument bodies are important to musicians. Three proposed mechanisms by which players might detect these vibrations are radiation, mechanical coupling to hands and mouth,...

asa.scitation.org

https://scholarship.rollins.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1004&context=stud_fac

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/47531878_Coupling_between_air_column_and_structural_vibrations_in_the_flaring_bell_of_brass_wind_instruments

 

There have been studies showing that the vibration of the lips does affect the vibrations of the tube of brass instruments. Brasswinds are quite different animals than woodwinds, as the entire tube is in play (pun intended) for each note. So the large mass could affect the sound, and it seems possible that his finding at louder volumes could be feasible. OTOH really good double blind testing is needed, such as to clamp the instruments and support them so that the can be played without being touched. Obviously there can't be any tactile clues as to which is which. Also, I have questions about just how faithful the bore profile is in comparison to the control mouthpiece. It would be possible to do laser interferometry studies of the tube with the two mpcs to see if there are quantifiable differences in the vibrations in the body tube. My feeling is that his claims might have some merit, but are generally not applicable to saxophone.