[bexleystorme]

I had a daughter do performing arts for her grad studies. Agree with what has been observe above. Those who have had more success beyond cruises were the very few who either had some contacts, were chosen by a tutor, or who found ways to market and promote themselves. But mostly it was about contacts. Ten years later she notices how some of those felt to be the most talented (who I recall seeing perform many years ago) ended up doing very little and even retrained to do something else, some giving up.

My son did fine art but self taught computer programming for graphics editing at the same time and now has a well paid job in that. But he loved his degree. Was amazing to see how happy he was and full of ideas and being creative. Again, only one or two managed to stay doing art, through connections.

I when I hear people who did jazz at music schools, and had all that time to just do that, I just wish I could do that now. Must be amazing experience.

 

[OLIVIERMOJOSAX]

I learned to read music at school (a chance because in France, learning music at school is not taught very much, if at all)
I started to learn the sax self taught with books (eg: "Patterns for Jazz").
I learned a lot and a lot of bad habits.
After a few years of intensive self-taught practice,
I felt the need to organize my knowledge:
I took drums and harmony lessons with private teachers that I chose based on their musical style ...
and it is by associating these learnings and group practice (from duo to big band) and by playing jazz blues and Métis music that I think I have developed my style and my sound...

 

[GroverC]

Crazy huh

 

[smash]

There is a lot of good info in this thread. A few other things to consider: There is a bit of a difference between what degrees are offered (BM vs BA). A BM will be more music intensive than an "Bachelor of Arts" degree. I got a "Bachelor of Music" degree but with a concentration in music education. I graduated with a teaching certificate that allowed me to have a good career.

Unless you live near a major metropolitan area, it will be very difficult to find great teacher/mentor or find jam sessions and people to play with. College is a place to meet like minded players and a place you can learn together. Funny fact, the best sax player at my college (when I was there) was not a music major! It all depends on what you want to do. I would think very long on getting an expensive "jazz" degree without some other training (ed, business, audio, etc) and yes, some schools will absolutely let you graduate without learning to play!

 

[Will O S.C.]

To answer OP’s two part question, (1) when you study jazz in college, you play in ensembles (typically in the jazz context but I also played in wind ensembles), take lessons, take theory, history, aural skills, and other music based classes, etc…(2) having a jazz degree doesn’t probably mean much per se, but like others have said here, the benefits come from total immersion/commitment, being forced to do things outside of your comfort zone for a grade, contact development, and being around like minded people who share similar goals and a desire to get better. I think it is definitely possible to teach yourself but it will be a slower, less focused process. But, all of the quality online content out there can help if you are committed.

Looking back (I left my undergrad jazz program), I wish I majored in composition or theory. There are plenty of great players in the world, trained and untrained. But there are seemingly far fewer great writers and content generators.

 

[stomias]

In 1969 I picked up a guitar and by pure serendipity found an outstanding teacher. He taught me many things but most importantly, he taught me the beauty of harmony AND how to dig deep on my own and learn. This started my lifelong practce of challenging myself and a daily routine of inventing exercises to practice. Back then there was lots of playing with "records".. Then bands with peers. Don't we all (those of an age) wish we had todays resources back then. After returning to the sax 4 years ago I found fresh life in revisiting my old practice routines though now with 50+ years of gigs, studio work and teaching. Back when I was 18, the only post high school music schooling I had was a few community college courses though the harmony class I took was led by the second chair pianist with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.... :O

 

[Morph1590]

For some reason I never really got a clear answer from them. It seemed like for most part they have done exactly what I was doing, so learn to play trough changes better, arrange, transcribe. Maybe with more focus on sight reading and transcribing, (but that’s due to my choice of focusing on something else). Some history classes, which most of them were skipping, etc. Except, of course they had way more time to practice during the day, but that by itself isn’t thanks to being in school, but rather having no other commitments.

So, I wanted to ask someone who went to jazz school / college, what is it he was doing there, and how is it different to being self-taught (in other words, what are benefits of having a teacher once you are comfortable with the fundamentals of getting around the horn and literacy, which is a prerequisite of getting into the school anyway), especially in the age of internet and unlimited learning resources? And for those who live in states, is it actually worth the crazy money it seems to cost? As compared to just practicing yourself and going to jams gigs etc. Is it a significant difference when looking for job in show band etc, or are those just audition based anyway?

Thanks,

I think there are two questions here. Being self taught vs taving a teacher, and attending music college vs not attending.

Once you get to a certain level, I agree having a teacher isn't necessary BUT personally I still take lessons albeit sporadically (a handful a year). I like having personalised input from someone I admire, and picking their brains. It also helps keep me motivated. A lot of great players I know will organise lessons when players they like are in town.

In terms of "what do you get from music college"?

I think you can get very close to a music college experience by having private lessons, playing jam session and organsing plays with people, and practicing a lot. Music college just makes it easier - you naturally build a network, and there so many great playing opportunities (small group, big band, load of different styles etc.). At music college you have a pool of great players, all trying to learn, with great facilities, and lots of time. Once you leave, everyone is gigging, working and teaching without access to practice rooms/instruments etc.

I went to music college but also, like you, have a degree in a non-music subject - the truth is I probably could have used online lecture notes, textbooks, watched youtube, used internet forums etc. and taught myself (my non music degree). But it would have been so much harder. I needed the input of friends, the pressure of exams, the fact I was studying a degree to justify my time. I think it's a similar story with music.

 

[Arundo Donax]

I wanted to take music classes in college while working on a microbiology degree. They wouldn’t allow non-music majors to take classes. Maybe that’s changed since the 1970s. I would have liked to have learned some theory.

Was the college concerned that the classes would be too full and therefore wanted to reserve them for music majors only?

 

[Guto]

It’s the atmosphere, the mindset you develop by being in that environment. Plus the friendships you make for a lifetime.

 

[stomias]

The close connection to all the young up and coming players in college is surely vital to making a living in jazz. Our old family friend was Frank Sinatras (Sr. and Jr.) musical cotractor. This job requires knowing the best in the biz and what their capabilities are...... Here.... https://news.medill.northwestern.ed....edu/chicago/from-south-side-to-sinatra-mike-smith-still-embodies-chicago-jazz/

 

[MM]

I have read liner notes and bios of recording jazz musicians who first got hired out of Berklee by band leaders. I can't say if that still frequently happens. Anyone?

 

[Benjamin Allen]

Music school was a lot of fun and very informative. I minored in music (saxophone performance) during my undergraduate studies and studied the saxophone privately later on. Formal schooling in music performance can offer many benefits over independent learning, I just don't think music performance is an ideal major for many students unless the student is looking to attend graduate school in music so they can obtain jobs at universities and the like or the student is attending school at no cost to them. Assuming a large amount of debt to obtain a music performance degree is generally untenable.

 

[mmichel]

I wanted to take music classes in college while working on a microbiology degree. They wouldn’t allow non-music majors to take classes. Maybe that’s changed since the 1970s. I would have liked to have learned some theory.

Was the college concerned that the classes would be too full and therefore wanted to reserve them for music majors only?

In my experience, it's the ensembles that tend to be restricted to majors only. Other music courses are typically open to all students.

Additionally, at larger schools they often have ensembles specifically for non-majors. At schools with major conservatories, these non-major ensembles can often be quite good because they are filled with students who are hoping to get into the conservatory. For example, I played in the Jazz Ensemble for non-majors at Eastman when I was in grad school at the University of Rochester. It was very good.

 

[stomias]

Nothing is the same as it was...........................

 

[MM]

It’s the atmosphere, the mindset you develop by being in that environment.

From what I observed and hear from the sidelines, there is intense competition to getting into classical ensembles, symphony orchestras in particular, where it's all about how one does in audition. In a music school/conservatory this would carry over to wind ensembles and the "A" big bands.

Aside from competing for the big band chairs, I have an impression it's a bit different in the jazz world where more frequently struggling new players tend to work together. (Or is this also a thing of the past?) But jazz schools may bring together a critical mass of jazz players who can get together and practice, figure out what Chris Potter and Kenny Garrett etc are doing, live and breathe jazz 20 hrs a day.

I doubt Herbie Hancock would hire a new sax player based on his/her academic credentials, or even give that any weight in his decision.

 

[Zasterz]

I doubt Herbie Hancock would hire a new sax player based on his/her academic credentials, or even give that any weight in his decision.

I feel that this is a bit simplistic. Someone like Herbie Hancock has amassed tons of friends and colleagues over decades in the business and among them there are surely plenty of sons, daughters, grandchildren etc who have entered the field. Connections matter and nepotism isn’t just for Hollywood actors.

 

[GroverC]

I doubt Herbie Hancock would hire a new sax player based on his/her academic credentials, or even give that any weight in his decision.

Outliers need not apply.


Come on. The OP Could have as easily asked what do engineering students learn in college. There are a large number of people who perform engineering tasks and out comes without engineering degrees.

School provides uniformity and literacy to an idea. Allowing the uninformed the confidence that the person holding the degree meets a baseline expectation.

The degree does not guarantee an expertise or virtuosic performance.

This applies to all disciplines.

 

[Aquarian]

There are two advantages, one is connections - not just older people "in the business" but also other young musicians to form bands with. The other is college will give you a guided path of study and clear feedback on where you need work. Ear training is an example, I find it somewhat tedious to do but when I was in college I did it because I wanted to pass.

If you're trying to make a career, you do the same things you need to do in music school but with less assistance.

A lot of the stuff you need to you will need to do either way. You should go to jam sessions and try to make connections, you try to promote yourself, join bands. Do you know what you need to learn well enough to write your own curriculum? If not, music college will help a lot. And most of us don't know well enough.

As for the monetary thing, if you just want a solid middle class life, there are things more likely to pay off. But you will still need connections. I have an "ordinary" degree in something else but never really figured out how to make it pay off. I also took some time to do another craft that payed decently enough but I hated the conditions and left. There are no guarantees, so if you're looking for safe and sure you better just have rich parents or a trust fund.

 

[click]

I wanted to take music classes in college while working on a microbiology degree. They wouldn’t allow non-music majors to take classes. Maybe that’s changed since the 1970s. I would have liked to have learned some theory.

I was a music minor history major in a state school.

 

[burritosoftware]

I think a jazz degree only allows you to teach in such schools as you studied before. I can't imagine that you will be hired because of your degree. No one canceled the audition. In its defense, I can say that education also broadens the mind. The cultural part of education is essential, and musician colleges can get it for you because the psychology part influences students. I recently wrote an article on this theme here (read more), and I think it might be helpful for students in related faculties. Your salary also might depend on your degree, but it does not work every time.