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I have a Phonic Ring. My Doctor said it should resolve itself without intervention.

 

Can also spend 8k for the same thing if you prefer to really spend the money on imaginary nonsense.

Lefreque 164150

Klankbrug Lefreque 164150, Solid Gold 24K yellow 41mm kopen of online bestellen? Bij Adams Musical Instruments staan we altijd voor je klaar, voor, tijdens en ook zeker na je aankoop.

www.adams-music.com

 

Maybe some people can just hear better than others?

 

Cosmik Debris.

they have actual spectral analysis of the sound with and without it installed

I have an actual photo of a guy in India holding a 50# weight up with his tool. It proves as much as that spectral analysis.

 

Cosmik Debris.


I have an actual photo of a guy in India holding a 50# weight up with his tool. It proves as much as that spectral analysis.

It proves his tool can hold 50#... you guys act like sound and material properties are not at all related if that was the case we would all play on a plastic saxophone and the mk vi series would be just another saxophone. In reality everything makes a difference. From weight, material used, density of that material, tone hole placement, and conical taper and flair. I'm not here to say the difference is mind blowing but if it's an improvement that is across the board why not seek it out? If saxophones were perfected already why are companies still spending on r&d? Also as I noted in the first post, Selmer Paris did the same thing to the new Supreme model with the addition of a silver nickle neck ring for a more "stable" connection.

 

I use the Lefreques with my Selmer Series II bass saxophone. They make a great improvement on note stability which can be quite challenging on the bass. I'm always curious about the threads on this forum that talk about these various gizmos; pros and cons; mostly cons.

 

Two hours of time on the horn is worth more to me than working two hours to pay for a magical gizmo.

 

Hey Kurt, I looked for the proof on the website and couldn't find it. Please repost it here.
What I found on the website doesn't speak about weight or mass at all...
"Who would have thought that such a small accessory could make such a difference in sound? This copper ring is placed between the jar and the body of the saxophone to create a phonic connection. The material brings more roundness and depth to the sound. You won't be able to do without it!
THE JLV PHONIC RING, AN INCREDIBLE INNOVATION !

The interlocking favors the vibration losses between the different parts of the saxophone, the cork stifles the vibrations.

After several years of Research & Development, Jean-Luc VIGNAUD, the inventor has come up with a unique process in the world which creates a sound bridge."


They don't mention adding mass, but that it connects the vibrations from one part to another.
This sounds very much like the Lefreques to me. They also post "scientific evidence" showing heat or something. I'd have to look at it again. I do remember there was no control for how they did those tests.

And yes, I don't believe ligatures make a difference, nor do I think material makes in difference in most cases. But I'm very happy to go over some studies about it. If you have scientific evidence I'd love to see it!

Thing is, I've seen actual studies that appeared legit that disproved a lot of these ideas, I've never seen one that proved the opposite. It's always anecdotal.

Someone posted one about trombone bells just recently... I'll look for it.

 

Double blind tests can reveal a lot.

 

Here we go:
http://la.trompette.free.fr/Smith/IOA/material.htm

The quote I like from this study...

"The difference between ear and bell spectra amounts to about a 2 dB increase at a particular harmonic for the thinnest bells. Having taken precautions to equalise the weight and balance of the bells, ten of the best trombonists were put through a double blind test where the player is presented with a prescribed random order of instruments. (all players play the same order) {13} to ascertain whether they could distinguish between the six bells. The statistical results showed that the difference between thin and thick bells was so small that it could not be detected by any of the players. At a later stage in the testing an electroformed pure copper bell (made on a similar - but not the same mandrel) was added into the playing sequence. Under test conditions this was not noticeably any different to the brass bells but when subsequently played in non-blind tests it gained magical properties!"

 

I guess my age is showing but the first thing I thought was, "Hooked on Phonics"

 

HA, I remember those ads...

 

That mentions the cork stifling vibrations; ok, but how does adding something between the neck and body as shown in the pictures do anything about that? If that is one of the suppositions, wouldn’t you need to remove the cork and replace it with something else if you think that contributes somehow?

 

No you need to de-couple the mechanical vibrations with the cork, and then add just the good ones back in with the doodad. Very simple and logical.

 

Ron made one. and thus spoke the raven ...

 

Nevermore?

 

I’m awaiting the ultimate custom saxophone, a one piece body/neck/mouthpiece and attached ligature made to your exact preference for tip opening and chamber. And a ridiculously large case to accommodate it.

 

Ultimate vibes!

 

Without a doubt, the best way to add roundness to a saxophone's sonic vibrations is to melt it down, recast the molten metal into a bell, then suspend the bell & strike it with a hammer. Vibrations! Roundness!

We who lack boldness & vision will persist in blowing thru the horn as if it were an aerophone rather than a percussion instrument. How backward!

 

Without a doubt, the best way to add roundness to a saxophone's sonic vibrations is to melt it down, recast the molten metal into a bell, then suspend the bell & strike it with a hammer. Vibrations! Roundness!

I like where you are going with this! But then... do we relacquer the metal bell or not?

 

Tough crowd. But … a Zappa quote.

 

You can easily manipulate the harmonic content of any tone by changing your voicing from moment to moment, so measurements can get tricky—very tricky.

On top of that, the air column inside the saxophone produces the sound. Adding weight—- adds weight.

I suggest giving this article a close read.
Introduction to saxophone acoustics

 

You can easily manipulate the harmonic content of any tone by changing your voicing from moment to moment, so measurements can get tricky—very tricky.

On top of that, the air column inside the saxophone produces the sound. Adding weight—- adds weight.

I suggest giving this article a close read.
Introduction to saxophone acoustics

I'd like to offer a more indepth paper for your reading. The one you listed is overly simplistic granted it was done that way in purpose. A better paper would be this THE EFFECT OF MATERIAL IN BRASS INSTRUMENTS; A REVIEW

The thickness/density/weight of material won't stop you from playing a base note but will definitely effect the harmonics produced by that instruments body know as resonant frequencies. You can still have overtones in the air being pushed through the instrument but if an instrument is sufficiently thin or light weight it will have a higher resonance and could possibly cancel out the overtones produced.

 

Tried a Lefreque on my alto a number of years ago. Various metals (no gold).
The only effect I noticed was on the very lowest notes. It brought the pitch up a bit.

 

Another thing I like about LeFreque is that the claim for saxophone is that the cork dampens the vibrations of the mouthpiece to the body of the instrument, so you need this piece of metal to make the sonic bridge. However, they also sell it for flute. And trumpet. Whatever instrument you have, it'll make things much better!

What sonic connection is happening between the head joint and the body of the flute that isn't happening by having both pieces of metal connected together?

Actually JLV does the same thing. They mention the cork stopping vibrations, that's because, I think, they sell it for clarinet which does have cork between sections. of course, you still have wood touching wood as well.

 

I can go along with the idea that in theory, everything makes a difference. I could remove the lyre screw from my tenor and I believe it will make a difference on some level, although not detectable by the human ear or by highly sensitive testing equipment even.

It seems to me a little presumptuous, for one to feel the need for tweaking on this level. This implies that one thinks he or she has perfected every aspect of their technique and all other equipment/setup. They have completely exhausted all the numerous things they could work on that do have an obvious effect on sound and performance, and have now moved on to squeezing that last .00001% of improvement that becomes a "game changer" for them. I find it absolutely ridiculous.

I personally would feel embarrassed to use one of these things.

 

It's also telling that they couldn't use humans for some of the tests in that review.
"The use of a human player source for acoustic and vibrational measurements was found unsatisfactory due to the poor repeatability of the results, hence the siren developed by Wogram "
So the "best trombonists" weren't consistent enough to do these tests. In order to get these minimal differences, they had to remove the human element. So maybe when we have AI robots playing instruments for us, some of these devices will be worthwhile to their AI listeners that can hear it.
Furthermore, of these miniscule differences, we still have no way of knowing which sounds "better".

 

I could remove the lyre screw from my tenor and I believe it will make a difference on some level, although not detectable by the human ear or by highly sensitive testing equipment even.

For best results, replace the original lyre screw with a heavy mass lyre screw. (Or maybe a properly-threaded long machine screw with several washers from your local hardware store.)

 

In Norwegian, «freque» sounds like «frekk»:

🤭

 

For best sonic results you would need a le freque + sonic ring + heavy mass neck screw + a klangbogen attached to the lyre screw?
Would a metal tuning ring have the same effect as a sonic ring with clarinets? I have a few stainless steel washers lying around that would fit between barrel and body. Need to test it on my clarinet. If I don‘t hear any improvement it will either be the missing „ears“ my washers don’t have or more likely it is the wrong material. Should I cryo treat it before I try?
I am very sceptical.

 

These stainless steel washers would need a lengthy break-in period which will reset each time you disassemble the clarinet.

 

This device and others like it play into two fears we have as musicians. One fear is that we don't sound as good to the audience as we do to ourselves. What the audience hears is significantly less than the rich resonance in our own ears as we play. With the promise of more resonance, this device may extend the sound we hear to the audience. The second fear is that our sax sound is too generic and lacks individuality. Any device that will add uniqueness to our sound is worth exploring.

By its own admission, the differences this device makes is insignificant and hardly measurable with digital test equipment. A 2dB difference will not alter the perceptions of the audience members or be heard on a recording. However, it may increase the resonance you hear through bone conduction to give you the misguided idea that the audience hears more resonance, too. Then you believe you have a unique sound instead of working to develop a unique sound based on phrasing, inflections, musical ideas, and tone. Since your tone is only about 25% of your uniqueness as a player, and this device may improve your tone by 1%, the overall improvement it provides is only 0.25%. A little practice will yield a better and more consistent improvement that is easily measurable.

 

Ah but this device isn't what caused a difference of 2db. That was a totally different study about trombone bells of different thicknesses.
This device, I'm certain, does absolutely nothing. For the listener, the player, or whatever equipment was used in that trombone study. Id bet you dollars to donuts.

But your analysis of what's going on to sell this kind of nonsense sounds about right.

 

@Doug Lange "Practice"? Are you mad?
That is just crazy talk