Mato: Welcome to SOTW. No, I have not heard of this brand of saxophone. However, when I read that a maker of brass instruments (meaning brasswinds) suddenly starts making saxophones, I'm curious.

Does the saxophone have the country of origin stamped on it (or the accompanying paperwork)?

Would I be overly suspicious if I guessed that the Austrian company merely contracted with Taiwanese saxophone makers for a bunch of saxophones with the Austrian company's name? Not that a Taiwanese saxophone is a bad thing - just suspicious, that's all. Your Austrian company could have contracted with other saxophone makers to do this, too.

I doubt if gearing up in-house to make saxophones is an easy thing to do. Let us know what you find out. DAVE

 

Schagerl produces very good handcrafted brass instruments, but the Academica Series (brass and saxophones) are made in Taiwan.

http://academica.schagerl.at/index_gr.html

 

Dave, actually I heard that Schagerl saxophones have a great sound and also intonation, considering the price it is almost unbelievable, and the people who told me this really know what they are talking about, they're high class professionals.
The thing that I'm concerned about is durability of the instruments, because for example one Stagg I had sounded very good considering the price I bought it for (new for about $800), but after two years of everyday practice I just wore it off. So I am afraid that in few years the instrument will stop working properly. But the price is something over $1000 for the superior series.
Therefore I would really like to hear from somebody who has used any Schagerl saxophones.

 

Yeah but Mato if I could throw a monkey wrench in the wheel - since they're new to the market are you going to know how durable they are anyway?

I've seen ads for them which look great but that's all. Regarding a brass instrument company making saxes that wouldn't concern me in and of itself. Saxocentric SOTWers have a lot of respect for B&S trumpets but might not know that they also make an excellent professional quality trumpet, the Challenger series.

 

Anyone have any updated 411 on the Schagerl line of saxes? Looking particularly at the Tenors...I have a soprano and two altos already...looking to round out the lot with a good tenor, but don't need to go super expensive since soprano and alto are my main axes (along with trumpet). Just need to be able to play the down low sexy ballads every once in a while...

 

Well...given the last time anyone discussed 'em here was 6 years ago, and there doesn't seem to be much of a fan base and the name is still hecka obscure...I am just curious how you landed upon one of these as a consideration ?

What are your other horns as far as brands ?

 

 

all manners of companies , in the past as at present, have always marketed things that are not necessarily all made by them but that thy are selling through their network.

 

That vid is a year and a half old, and it was put on Youtube by the company.....

Granted, whether a horn gets a 'buzz' or not isn't a basis for determining the quality of the instrument (there are plenty of artificial/concocted buzzes going on around this place)....I am just commenting that it appears that in the years they have been making saxes, not many people have ever owned one, is all....

Dunno if they are more common to find in EU ?????

Maybe through the website you can figure out if there are any US distributors.....

 

I ask because my local shop (Chuck Levins) stocks them. Their trumpets are outstanding (i double on trumpet) and the prices are very good on the tenors. My other horns are in my signature to answer JayePDX. I'll probably give them a whirl this weekend.

 

FWIW...I played on a Shagerl saxophone at the Navy Saxophone Symposium this past January. I was blown away (no pun intended)! It was hands down the best playing and sounding current production saxophone in the vendor room (along with the 82Z which also shocked me, but that's another story). I have played a TON of horns and I mean a TON. I have also owned quite a few horns (modern and vintage), probably more than I should have owned. That being said I was extremely impressed with the new Shagerl saxophones. I played both models and they also had 3 necks to try with them. All the combinations offered something great, but I definitely enjoyed neck #2 with the pro model horn. Nice robust round dark sound! Great ergos and solid build quality! I asked if I could buy it and he said this particular one wasn't for sale! It played better than almost all the MK VIs I've played and it smokes all of the other Taiwanese horns I've ever played. I really really really was tempted to buy one, but I knew that ultimately it would never be my main axe as I am just a vintage guy at heart. Solid, Solid horn though! I wish I had recorded a clip. Hope that helps. Good LUCK!

 

Yes, a lot of people like Chinese and Taiwanese made horns, even when they are branded with other names.

 

The trick becomes trying to ascertain which factory they might have come from....

 

Schagerl/Venus have the same manufacturing origin as Keilwerth and Jupiter; It's the same "cauldron"

As for the plant itself, that could change depending on the type of sax. But the traceability is often unclear ! That is international trade!

Not every bit of truth is fit to be told, to listen and accept

 

I disagree with the statement by dream62.

Jupiter builds most of their saxophones themselves in their rather huge plant in Taiwan and only the cheapest ones in China.

Keilwerth is still undergoing some restructuring after having been bought by Buffet (and Buffet being bought by another company), so is not yet clear what the future will bring BUT they have always built their top models themselves while they have had their less expensive model made or assembled by Amati Denak and Jupiter.

Buffet has recently bought the models 100 and 400 in China.

 

The st model from the same factory who produces the 749, Venus and schagerl were also the same factory

Concerning all the jupiter production, i don't know ! idem concerning buffet because the plants are changing ownership and so in name and depending on tender outcome.

It's the same thing concerning the more prestigious all the production isn't produced in their own territory.

 

Jupiter is not changing production from their Taiwanese HUGE plant

Buffet has declared that they will leave Keilwerth producing (at least their top lines horn)


Venus an Schagerl MIGHT come from the same factory but the CERTAINLY have nothing to with Jupiter (unless you talk of their only model made in China) or Keilwerth (at present)

 

I never said that it was the same plant who manufactures the Schag/venus and that of keilwerth/Jupiter.

Have you heard about the outsourcing ?! Sometimes you may have a part of this one in Prc and another in Taiwan or elsewhere ( singapore, vietnam ...)

I do not have the inside track concerning all the brands but i know a little the commercial and manufacturing strategy

I speak the factor itself who makes some models of theses brands concerning i know where is made exactly the jup749 and the st 90 Iv and too the schagerl and the venus and too the buffet 400

 

On their website they state that any finish is available with or without F#.
I cannot find any price on the web.
Any idea about the price range?

 

As of yesterday pricing starts at about 2500 and goes yo about 3500

 

here you find a downloadable pdf

http://www.schagerl.com/Preislisten-Deutsch/View-category/Menu-ID-108.html

 

Thanks. I still cannot find their model 66 (that should be the professional one) but I have an idea about the others.

 

Quick review of Schagerl Academica Superior T-GM tenor

Hoping to find something I like better than my Yamaha YTS-23, I finally bought a Schagerl Academica Superior T-1GM tenor from Otrie at Chuck Levins Washington Music Center in Wheaton Maryland (just north of DC...you can take the red line) a few months back (early June?). This is the higher of the two levels of "Academicas" they have; not sure if they carry the cheaper one but in any case I didn't try it. I am quite happy with it overall. Levins is an excellent shop (I had a good experience getting some studio monitors for someone else there, too). I played the "professional" 66 model too--- I think it was used--- and liked this better. It felt less sluggish under the fingers, a little more flexible and easier to play...also for controlling the tone with embouchure, seemed easier and more varied tonally. Besides the Schagerl Academica and Schagerl 66 I also played a Mark VI, an SA-80 pre-Jubilee, a P Mauriat 66RUL while I was there (all used). There was no obvious setup flaw in any of these horns, they all played well, but I liked the Academica best. The Mauriat was an awesome horn too, I had trouble choosing between it and the Academica. Mauriat had definitely a different sound...more grainy, more open. Both of these horns were somewhat under $2000 US. My dad was there with me and when I asked him which one of the five or six horns he liked best, he said thought I played best on the Academica. I found the action a bit easier to deal with than the Mark VI, especially going chromatically through the Eb key, quite smooth on the Schagerl, key travel seemed a bit much on the Selmer (noticed this on the other Mk VI I played recently too). Tone just slightly more veiled and "complex" than the Mk VI and Mauriat, but still easy to get an "edge" on it, and relatively free-blowing. Perhaps slightly less free-blowing than the Selmer and the Mauriat. I felt the Selmer was a bit like a flywheel that is really loud when kicked up, and really rings rather than damping down quickly, but took a little too much effort/time to spin up to full power, and seemed a bit harder to control than the Schagerl and the Mauriat. Even at the same price either of these horns seemed like a better fit for me than either of the Mk VI's I've tried recently, and the Mk VI wasn't the same price...

I have since played, though I don't own, another SA-80, this one a Jubilee... I also like it a lot. I think those who say the Schagerl is basically an SA-80 clone are correct. I suspect Schagerl goes to some trouble to make sure their Taiwanese mfr. does a good job on their stuff. Whether they put finishing touches on in Austria, I don't know. Otrie seemed to imply that the pro model was made in Austria but I guess that probably involves assembly from a Taiwan-made tube and maybe other Taiwan parts. I really don't know, or care too much. So far, it seems that quality control is pretty good, and shows in this horn. Intonation seems quite good to me, though I sometimes think maybe I have a little trouble with the C#/Db being a tad flat relative to other notes. Also I sometimes need to take a little bit of care to get the high palm key notes (Eb on up, mainly the F but occasionally even the D) to sound... they can come out about a third low and choked occasionally if I jump up to them... this could well be an adjustment issue, e.g. some pad needs to be higher? The sax has a high F# key, incidentally.

Overall, I love this horn. It's got more body and edge than the Yamaha, but is not brittle or sluggish, and the ergonomics are quite good. Tone seems to me quite malleable, which is a good thing. Maybe I will do a blind listening test with them sometime.

I have some hard rubber Links (modern "vintage style" slant tonedges) that sound a bit stuffy and are a bit hard to play on the Yamaha, that sound better and are easier to play on the Schagerl. I have changed back to them since I bought the Schag.

There is supposedly a dealer in Texas too but I didn't manage to find them, online anyway. Levins has a website. Incidentally Levins repair unit seems excellent too... I left a Yamaha alto with them because it needed a cork for one of the palm keys... they did it for free since it was such a small job, and also pointed out some non-level pads resulting from a recent repad that I had done elsewhere. I could see the issues, and indeed had felt my hands aching after playing it, possiblly from having to press the keys down a little harder because of the pad issues--- I don't think they were baselessly trying to run down my tech, though they suggested I take it back to the tech who did the repad to fix the issues.

If you're within a few hours drive of the Wheaton MD / Washington DC area I urge you to check out these saxes (and the other stuff Levins' has to offer). Great value for money... and for my taste, this is a just plain great sax even ignoring monetary considerations. Your taste / hands / embouchure may be different, so you should compare a bunch of different saxes... but put this one on your list to try if you can.

 

Re: Quick review of Schagerl Academica Superior T-GM tenor

Thanks for the review. It sounds like you've found a really nice tenor.

.

…I think those who say the Schagerl is basically an SA-80 clone are correct.…

Makes sense. It seems that most Taiwanese and Chinese saxophones are copies of SA-80/serie11 or Yanagisawa saxophones.

 

I played an unlacquered one at the Sax Symposium at GMU, and I really liked it. It was a killer horn, but it was a loaner that wasn't for sale. I played a couple of the other display models that I didn't care for.

 

I'm curious, which model Schagerl horn did you play? Were the others Schagerls that you didn't care for, or other manufacturers' horns?

 

I think it was the 66.

http://www.schagerl.com/en/Sax-Modell-66/tenorsaxophon-modell-66/menu-id-205.html

I tried other finishes, but didn't like them. I don't remember if they were all the same model. The best horn that I played that day was a Yani Silver tenor. 9930? I only tried tenors that day. The schagerl was around $1800? It's been a while. The Yani was 4-5x that price.

 

I tried a Shagerl 66 low A bari at Chuck Levins today (I came in to check out an old Buescher), back to back with my Cannonball stone series bari.... and WOW!!!

Huge, fat and beefy vintage-y tone (well, at least closer to Mark VI bari's I've tried than my CB is). Great intonation. Very solid key action, but didn't seem quite as robust as my CB*. The $5200 price tag for an obscure Taiwan make was a bit of a head-scratcher (and makes it a non-starter), but if I ever come across one like today's specimen used for $3k or less, I'm all over it.

*In fairness, might have been the (lack of) setup.

 

Here's a link that I found --

http://www.schagerl.com/en/Generally/about-us/menu-id-71.html