This is sometimes caused by loose rollers. One cure is to lube them with heavy key oil.

Your Yamaha does not have the problem, OK. What is the horn that has the problem?

Loose (or low tension) leaf springs in the palm keys or octave key?

 

This is sometimes caused by loose rollers. One cure is to lube them with heavy key oil.

Is it necessary to disassemble the roller before lubing it? Is this something that someone with no repair experience can do at home using a product like this?:

http://musicmedic.com/ultimax-pivot-and-roller-lubricant.html

My Zephyr alto has developed an odd high-pitched buzz around B1, and I suspect it's the LH pinky table rollers.

 

Rattles / buzzes can be from dozens of different causes. Like Dr. G said, if your palm key leaf springs are too loose, you can be blowing them open (same with side C & Bb keys). If your rollers are loose, some oil can stop the noise. If any key rod or pivot screw is loose, it can cause a rattle (but you checked that). If the keys are worn or otherwise loose fitting (either side-to-side between posts or loose on the key rod / pivot screw), that can cause a rattle that's harder to find. The low Bb tilting spatula mechanism can rattle if it doesn't fit securely on its rod and/or around the stub on the low C# key. A key guard bumper screw could be loose fitting. A key guard could be loose. A stack adjustment screw could be loose. The list goes on...

By the way, nice work trying to diagnose it by holding down everything that could be causing it - that's usually the way to find it. But if you're still stumped & it's driving you crazy, yeah, take it in to your tech and let's all hope it still does it in front of him

 

Thanks for the help guys. It's a borgani vintage serial number oba16x.. Sounds amazing, when it's not buzzing

 

When's the last time you had it apart for a proper lube?

 

I bought it used in the beginning of spring n had my tech fix some leaks n he lubed it up a little but it was taken apart or overhauled by any means. Pads aren't leaking but they're getting pretty shot. Maybe it's time to bring it in for a full job repad etc.. Any top guys in nyc nj area you suggest?

 

Sorry - no personal experience there. I've one Borgani on the left coast, the other will be heading to Stohrer Music (Durham, NC) when my turn comes up.

My perspective is that they are worth investing in a top setup because I am committed to playing them. I was just reviewing an old Borgani thread "Who else has been assimilated?" and found that I've been playing Lamberson mouthpieces on Borgani Jubilee tenors for 10+ years! My, how time flies...

Borgani's have a few quirks and factory setup is sometimes less than optimal (just like Selmer) - it'd be best to find a tech with Borgani experience for full Borg' satisfaction. :borg:

 

If you can send it to Matt (Stohrer), you won't regret it. He does absolute top notch work & will get that Borg playing to its full potential.

By the way, is there a specific note (or notes) that make the buzz the worst, or is it everything in the bottom register? Does it do it equally at soft and loud volumes?

 

In my experience the 2 most common causes of buzzes areun lubricated rollers, and a long keyk rod vibrating against a support post part way along its length.

yOur diagnosis approach is good, but possibly better if you get a second person to touch all over the instrument, because they can listen with their ear close, up for better homing in on the location of the buzz.

 

one time, while it was bad, I was pressing around the sax trying to mute to rattle, I pressed down harder on one of my palm keys pad area, it stopped immediately.

Sounds like your resonator is resonating.

 

Or possibly a dried out flap of leather from a split pad even.

 

Or possibly a dried out flap of leather from a split pad even.

 

Always best to line any guide pillars with self adhesive Teflon sheet or something else with low friction properties - don't use cork or leather as they can cause the keys to creak or feel sluggish due to friction. If there is still some noise, then a drop of heavy oil or grease in the guide pillar will cure that. Check all the clearances between keys and adjacent rods and pillars by running a piece of paper in between them. If you feel any resistance, then that's where they're touching and will vibrate in sympathy with certain notes.

Last month I rebuilt a Conn 20M alto and I kept getting mechanical noise on the RH3 fingerplate even though it was adequately silenced, but this noise stopped as soon as I held the low C# key open. Turns out on close inspection the linkage end of the low C key was touching the RH3 key barrel and that caused the noise, so a gentle tap to shift the low C# key pillar away from the RH main action did the trick.

Also check your resonators aren't touching the inside edges of the toneholes if for whatever reason the pad cup is massively eccentric with the tonehole.

 

Thanks for all the help guys I am going to try everything u said tomorrow. To answer one of the question it doesn't seem to start until below B. Once a hit A it starts significantly and doesn't stop until the bottom. Doesn't matter how soft or loud I blow, if anything it is worse when I'm blowing softly because it is more noticable

 

It's not a "hiss" sound, is it? If it's across your entire lower register, there's a chance one of your octave keys is slightly open. Does your neck octave key pad close completely when no keys are pressed? And is there a little bit of play between the octave key and the floating octave lever (the little lever that lifts the neck octave key - it's the highest thing on the body of your sax)? There should be a very small gap, so that floating octave lever travels a little bit before it contacts the neck octave key and begins to lift it. Just a thought - we're shooting in the dark here!

 

The actual note (or notes) that happens to have a frequency that triggers sympathetic vibration of a part against another is not really relevant.

 

It is in that it triggers the sympathetic vibration so the cause of it can be found while the relevant note is played (but that's usually nowhere near the tonehole where the note issues from).

Not saxes, but I've seen several Buffet R13 clarinets which had a sympathetic buzz when upper register B or C were played. It was caused by the top joint side and trill keys making contact due to the narrow gaps between them. Once found, it was rectified by bending the keys so they didn't make contact with each other.

 

Thanks very much, saxoclese! I'm off to find a "Dills" pipe cleaner. . . .

 

You can easily determine if it is the rollers by touching them all. If the buzz is still there, it is not caused by rollers.

 

Thanks Gordon, I did try that tactic, which is why I suspect the rollers are creating the noise. Still need to confirm by having my pianist hold them for me--assuming he washes his hands first, that is. Pianists' fingers are so . . . profligate. 88 keys is just excessive, if you ask me.

But I'm already filling up my Music Medic cart with supplies, assuming these horns will need to be oiled at some point.

 

I’ve had mechanical rattle from the height adjustment screws for D#, low C, B and Bb key guards. The ones with felt on. Had to use loctite thread lock on them.

 

Rattles can also be from loose screws in the mounting of the key guards.
And from the support half way along a long key such as High E, or G.

But:
1. It is very unlikely that a mechanical vibration vibrates for all notes.
2. It is really quite easy to locate a mechanical vibration. Get a second person to move their ear over the sax to find the approximate region where it is loudest, then touch things until it stops. (No squeezing needed)