Mingus
Strayhorn

There ares so many

 

Great question! Maybe too many to choose but I'll go - Bill Evans or Josef Zawinul.

 

In my humble subjective opinion T. Monk should be on top.

 

Kenny Wheeler, Wayne Shorter, Maria Schneider.... It's a long list.

 

Agreed! Also Gil Evans

 

Mingus, Monk, Kirk and Coltrane would all put in a good word for Sun Ra.

 

Jelly Roll Morton. DAVE

 

Definitely, Dave !!

I analyzed SPANISH SWAT and was knocked out by the rhythmic precision, which was virtually a clinic in African drumming patterns.

 

This is easy. Wayne Shorter. He changed the direction of jazz after Trane did his thing.

Also I would throw in Charlie Parker for moving jazz from swing to bebop.

Oh, and Miles combining with Bill Evans to bring in the modal era.

Miles also created fusion. Since he started with Bird and helped Trane get out there and had more than one great quintet he is the central figure in jazz so I guess that makes his compositions important, especially "Kind Of Blue".

 

George Gershwin
Cole Porter

 

Impossible to answer.
Far too many parameters & tastes involved to make a constructive objective reply.

 

What's the difference between a composer and a "jazz composer?" :innocent02:

 

A jazz composer uses the language of swing and the blues. Obviously there are grooves other than swing that are used by jazz composers, but the evolution of jazz comes through swing and blues. So a "jazz" composer builds on those aesthetics and come out of that continuum. That's the short version. Obviously today we use the word "jazz" in a more broad sense to describe music that are more "Americana" or "pop/rock/folk" influenced but also incorporate instruments, ensembles, and performer associated with jazz.

This is a very short explanation and is open for debate. No single person has the authority to decide what "jazz" is, however I'm sure we can agree that I'm extremely familiar with the subject. If any of you SOTWers would like a serious dialogue on the subject, lets talk on the phone or skype.

 

I would say Lenny Bernstein could do it all.

 

Benny Golson and Horace Silver are also very near the top of my personal list.

 

Oh yeah, Horace Silver, the hardbop inventor.

 

It's a tie between Monk, Mingus, and Shorter, with an honorable mention for Horace Silver.

 

I'm with you there. Mingus for sure. I'd put him right up there with Ellington & Strayhorn, not necessarily 2nd place.

Next for me would be Wayne Shorter, Charlie Haden, Horace Silver.

 

I have a deep love for Mingus, as the incarnation of 60 years of jazz history.
But do the likes of Berlin, Weill, Gershwin, Porter.... count as jazz?
Maybe not second like Mingus (first is Ellington-Strayhorn as one entity) but they share the third place with most of the composers mentioned so far...

 

But do the likes of Berlin, Weill, Gershwin, Porter.... count as jazz?

Good question, but I would say no. Obviously this gets into the sticky area of defining 'jazz.' But leaving an exact definition aside, I don't think Berlin, Gershwin, etc, were thinking in terms of composing jazz pieces. They were composing songs for musicals, movies, singers, etc. What at the time would be called 'popular' music, although it clearly was more than that. The 'Great American Songbook.' However, jazz musicians used those compositions as vehicles or templates for jazz improvisation. So I guess I'd say the compositions, as originally composed, were not jazz, but jazz musicians turned them into jazz. Mingus & Ellington, otoh, were composing pieces for jazz musicians with the idea that part of the music would be improvisational. So they were jazz composers.

Pretty convoluted thinking, and the distinction may be artificial, I realize. But that's how I see it.

 

Little Stevie Wonder.

 

I don't have the skills or education to say who was best but in terms of tunes I really enjoy listening too and playing - add my vote to the Horace Silver column.

 

IMO there's a difference between song/tune writer and composer although the lines are definitely blurred. To me composer implies the ability to work with larger forms and usually larger ensembles, as well as smaller parameters. Also implies a degree of sophistication. A perfect example of who straddles the lines is Wayne Shorter, who has written many "tunes" but also of which are very sophisticated in their forms, both phrase-wise and harmonically. In the extremes of jazz writing, Mose Allison is a song writer, Lalo Schifrin is a composer.

Regarding the OP topic, itself, my vote goes to Maria Schneider.

 

+1

 

Mingus, Coltrane, Parker, Basie, Ellington, Goodman, Davis, Armstrong, Rollins, Gillespie, Adderley,etc. so many people to choose from. These are just the elephants in the room that I prefer. It really comes down to your preferences and how you will rank the player you like.

 

I'd go Gershwin for this. He was just so great for how long he lived. If he had lived past 38, then I couldn't imagine what type of genius would pour out of that mind later in his life.

 

Ellington ?? A good tunesmith.

The best jazz composer ? Check out Arcangelo Corelli…

 

Ellington ?? A good tunesmith.

The best jazz composer ? Check out Arcangelo Corelli…

Tunesmith? Are you at all familiar with "A Tone Parallel to Harlem"? The most ambitious jazz composition of it's time. Probably the most ambitious jazz composition until Wynton Marsalis' "Blood on the Fields".

 

Impossible to rank them really, but I would say that Mingus was the greatest modern composer of jazz or otherwise.

Other top composers for me are Monk, Bird, Horace Silver, Jackie McLean, Wayne Shorter, Oliver Nelson and Bobby Timmons.

 

1- Ellington
2- Davis
3- Monk

 

With regard to the scope and depth of Duke's compositions and his "explorations in sound" approach, I would have to say Maria Schneider. That's what she does! She also writes with her musical personnel in mind and at the fore, as Duke did... And with both, we are not talking about writing creativity being boxed into traditional songbook forms and structures. And there is always the ample provision for the soloist to create and develop the composition via improvisation. These were Duke hallmarks, as they are Maria's. Another parallel would be the use of non-traditional jazz instruments. Duke - euphonium, valve trombone, violin. Maria - accordian, harmonica, alto flutes, etc. (different tonal contributions) Time will tell... but my vote goes for Maria. I don't think these parallels (and more) exist by coincidence.

 

I would probably have to go with Monk in the second spot, but then again, Billy Strayhorn doesn't really get his due for his contributions to the Ellington band. Strayhorn and Duke were just a perfect team. The Far East Suite is still one of my all-time favorite jazz albums. Oliver Nelson is another guy who doesn't get his deserved recognition as a composer, IMO. As an arranger Nelson was second to none. Charles Mingus was a master composer, and Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie both composed their share of tunes that are now jazz standards. Hoagy Carmichael wrote a lot of great early jazz tunes, but also wrote a lot of pop classics as well. Tito Puente composed a good number of classics in the Latin jazz genre (Oye Como Va, Ran Kan Kan, Picadillo, Para Los Ruberos, etc.). Fats Waller was another great composer that unfortunately doesn't get the recognition he deserves, but some of that has to do with the fact that he had a bad drinking habit and was not good with his money, which resulted in him selling the rights to a lot of his compositions, which others then put their own names on. Herbie Hancock certainly has his fair share of excellent compositions as well.