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Are you talking about new or used? I'm assuming new. The Yamaha 312 is a silver plated body with solid silver CY headjoint. I think the 312 is assembled in Indonesia. The Muramatsu equivalent is the EXiii. Solid silver head, plated body. Made in Japan. The Muramatsu is much more expensive (3 - 4 times?), but in my opinion a much better flute. But the dilemma is, if your daughter continues with the flute, she will probably want to/need to upgrade again, maybe to inline g/b foot, maybe to something else entirely. So to answer your question, I think the Muramatsu is the better choice of the two, all things being equal. I hope this helps a little.
 
But the dilemma is, if your daughter continues with the flute, she will probably want to/need to upgrade again, maybe to inline g/b foot...
<groan> An in-line G is a choice, not an upgrade. There are similar arguments to be made regarding the low B foot.

Many people prefer the ergonomics of the offset G - even those of us with larger hands. It is no reflection on the quality of the instrument. In fact, I have six flutes with offset Gs, four by Lehner, Bailey, and Opperman; two by DiMedici. None of them are "beginner" flutes.

Sheesh, six flutes? But they take up so little room... I really didn't realize that I had that many 'til I stopped just now to count. Two are alto flutes, but still... I need to stop hoarding. :cry:

FS Lehner C flute: https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?229535-FS-John-Lehner-flute&p=3258169#post3258169

FS DiMedici alto flute: https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?294154-FS-DiMedici-alto-flute&highlight=dimedici
 
Here's my take on it, for what it's worth:

1) OFFSET G is a far better choice both ergonomically and mechanically. It has no effect on sound. After decades of being bound to the in-line configuration which was originally chosen for reasons of manufacturing cost, the prejudice against offset G is declining. I would not recommend anyone except experienced players who want a specific instrument for its particular characteristics buy an inline G flute. Definitely not a high school player.

2) Low C or B is largely irrelevant by itself, but in better grade flutes in the US, the low B instruments are more likely to be in stock. Personally I prefer the low C as I think the third octave responds better.

3) Open or closed holes is a long standing argument. Personally I believe most flute players are better served with a closed hole instrument, but the prejudice is so strong that you probably ought to get open hole. Anyway, open holes can always be plugged. I very seriously doubt that tone hole location is selected especially for open vs. closed holes except on the most expensive flutes. I play an open hole instrument with the holes plugged.

4) I have not seen evidence, either in my own playing or in any kind of testing I've read about, that a solid silver tube makes any difference compared to a silver plated tube, but most manufacturers reserve the solid silver for the better grades of instrument that have more quality control and plated for the lower grades of instrument. This is not always so; when I bought my Miyazawa, they claimed that their plated instruments had the same type and degree of hand work as the solid silver ones just above; so I bought the plated body.

5) Further to the above, many manufacturers offer a choice of head joints, but usually only in the solid silver heads, which will drive you to the solid silver heads if you want a choice.

6) I personally believe plated keywork is a better choice than solid silver, as the nickel silver base metal is stronger, harder, and more wear resistant than sterling silver. However, again, what the manufacturer decides they will use will drive you one way or the other.

7) I am not a big fan of the split E but some people swear by it. It does prohibit one particular trill, which I can't remember, because I don't have a split E. The "donut" insert is a reasonable alternative.

As to brands, I would strongly recommend demo-ing the following, comparing flutes of similar price:

Yamaha
Miyazawa
Muramatsu
Sankyo
Powell sonare or whatever the current "low-end" Powell is called

Some of the flute makers change model names/numbers as often as you change your socks, so I have no idea about these specifics.

Depending on your budget, some of these brands might drop off the list.

Yamaha makes very good flutes even in the student range. Personally, though, at the "high student/low professional" range, I preferred Muramatsu, Miyazawa, and Sankyo over the Yamaha (all of them at the same price). But not by all that much.

I don't know anything about Pearl but I note that the specialist flute stores don't seem to carry them that often. I would not consider anything from Gemeinhardt, Armstrong, Artley, Selmer at this point in history. Some people really like the Haynes Commercial which is available used at quite reasonable prices; others don't. But visually it does not look like a high grade flute, and it's closed hole, so if you show up with one of these while everyone else in the school band has an open hole B foot Yamaha with pointy keys, there may be an issue.
 
Here's my take on it, for what it's worth:

1) Inline G is a far better choice both ergonomically and mechanically. ....
Didn't you mean "Off-set G is a far better choice both ergonomically and mechanically."

BTW my split E does not preclude any trill in the first 3 octaves. Nobody writes a trill in the 4th octave.
 
Didn't you mean "Off-set G is a far better choice both ergonomically and mechanically."

BTW my split E does not preclude any trill in the first 3 octaves. Nobody writes a trill in the 4th octave.
Yes, I meant that OFFSET G is a far better choice both ergonomically and mechanically.

According to my brief internet research, the G3-A3 trill is either more difficult or impossible using the standard fingering if the split E is present. It's on the internet, so you know it's been thoroughly researched and confirmed. I can't say anything about it because I don't have a flute with the split E. It seems that I remembered that the C# trill key makes it possible to do this trill with the split E, according to "someone".
 
Are you talking about new or used? I'm assuming new. The Yamaha 312 is a silver plated body with solid silver CY headjoint. I think the 312 is assembled in Indonesia. The Muramatsu equivalent is the EXiii. Solid silver head, plated body. Made in Japan. The Muramatsu is much more expensive (3 - 4 times?), but in my opinion a much better flute. But the dilemma is, if your daughter continues with the flute, she will probably want to/need to upgrade again, maybe to inline g/b foot, maybe to something else entirely. So to answer your question, I think the Muramatsu is the better choice of the two, all things being equal. I hope this helps a little.
Almost all the tone/response/volume of a flute is in the design (not the metal) of the head, player limitations aside. 311 is effectively the same as a 211, which has a non-solid-silver head.

The Yamaha 311 has an excellent head, designed for students. It is not a professional head. A professional design of head offers more to the accomplished player.
The Muramatsu EX has a professional head, and much of the price of the flute resides in that. (More resides in the fact that the more you pay for a flute the more chance you get of properly levelled tone holes, which increases reliability.)

The two are not comparable. A comparable Yamaha is a model with a professional head, for which you will pay much the same as for the Muramatsu. (once again, ignore the metals; they're really a non-issue.)

A "intermediate flute" possibility is a Yamaha 211 and buy separately, a professional head, of which many abound. Choice of professional head is a very personal issue and perhaps should be delayed until the player is quite accomplished.

Most non-professional players never use a low B. Unfortunately marketers have made it standard.

I have noticed no drop in standards since Yamaha had lower model instruments made in non-Japan countries. They must have preserved their quality control. (Indeed, I think their saxes are actually better - less play in the lower stack key pivots, possibly because of new tooling.)

IMO in-line G should definitely be avoided!!! As Turf3 wrote, it is both mechanically and ergonomically substandard. It has no saving graces other than perhaps looking pretty.

I am greatly in favour of split E. (I'll re-present my entire spiel here if requested)
 
Yes, I meant that OFFSET G is a far better choice both ergonomically and mechanically.

According to my brief internet research, the G3-A3 trill is either more difficult or impossible using the standard fingering if the split E is present. It's on the internet, so you know it's been thoroughly researched and confirmed. I can't say anything about it because I don't have a flute with the split E. It seems that I remembered that the C# trill key makes it possible to do this trill with the split E, according to "someone".
People distort the truth re this G trill. Different notes need different air pressure. The standard fingering for third octave trill from G to A is overblowing the low note fingering. Yes, it needs air pressure/speed, but so do quite a few other notes in third (and 4th!) octave. Split E does not affect that fingering at all! It is not involve (A certain other optional extra tone hole can make the trill easier. It is rarely found)
 
People distort the truth re this G trill. Different notes need different air pressure. The standard fingering for third octave trill from G to A is overblowing the low note fingering. Yes, it needs air pressure/speed, but so do quite a few other notes in third (and 4th!) octave. Split E does not affect that fingering at all! It is not involve (A certain other optional extra tone hole can make the trill easier. It is rarely found)
OK, I had to look it up. Here is the trill fingering I was taught. It's different than most in that (assuming you are starting on the G) you start with the standard high G fingering and then switch to this:

G (1st): 1 2 3 | D#
A: T 2 | 5 6 D#
G: T 2 3 | 5 6 D# (trill on 3)

I am also able to overblow G2-A2 trill as you described but I find it a little "stiffer" to get it to sound.

My alto flute has the split E and if I try the first fingering, the A comes out as Ab because there is only one tone hole open (the lower one closed by the RH), whereas my C flute without split E has two tone holes open there.

On the alto with split E, I can get a good high A in the trill by trilling not only #3 but also #5 at the same time.

Start on std. high G

G (1st): 1 2 3 | D#
A: T 2 | 6 D#
G: T 2 3 | 5 6 D# (trill on 3 and 5)

I can also get a really good G-A by starting out with the standard high G fingering, then

G (1st): 1 2 3 | D#
A: T 2 D#
G: T 2 3 | D#(trill on 3)

in other words lifting up 1 once you play the first G of the trill. This works equally well on the C flute without split E and the alto with split E. This is basically what you described but alleviates the stiffness of overblowing by lifting the LH index finger.

Anyway, it is NOT impossible to play high G-A trill on a flute with split E. It may require a different fingering than you were taught. It's much different to say "may require a different fingering" than to say "can't do it".

And so, I stand corrected on the G-A trill with split E.
 
Hello everyone. I did not mean to reopen the offset g/inline g debate. In my post, I was making an observation, granted, in not a clear fashion, that at some schools, as well as due to peer or teacher 'pressure', in line g flutes are seen as being the 'professional' style of instrument. Which may be a consideration if the poster spends a fair bit of money right now on a new flute. Personally, I play offset g, no split e. Which is merely a personal preference, nothing more.
 
Thanks for all your inputs to my question. What I have in mind are brand new Yamaha and Muramatsu flutes. I inquired from Tom Lee in Hong Kong and I was told that the current price of a YFL 312 is HK$ 5,500.00 which is within my budget. As I am willing to spend US$ 1,500.00 for this project, I thought I should have more options.
 
Thanks for all your inputs to my question. What I have in mind are brand new Yamaha and Muramatsu flutes. I inquired from Tom Lee in Hong Kong and I was told that the current price of a YFL 312 is HK$ 5,500.00 which is within my budget. As I am willing to spend US$ 1,500.00 for this project, I thought I should have more options.
Aside from specifications, which I think we have covered pretty thoroughly, I urge you again to consider other makes besides just Yamaha and Muramatsu. I would urge you, if the budget permits, to add Miyazawa, Sankyo, and the Powell "student" lines. It appears that you may not be based in the US, by your reference to Hong Kong. In that case, I don't know which brands are available where. I know that Miyazawa and Sankyo are made in Japan thus I would expect them to be available in Asia.

Your daughter after 5 years of playing will be able to discern the subtle differences among the flutes I've listed, and may find she prefers one of them more than Yamaha. But, the Yamaha flutes are also very good instruments and you won't go wrong if you decide on one of them.

When I went looking for a new flute some years ago, I started with Yamaha and they were head and shoulders above what I had been playing, but when I played the whole group of brands, I found that for me I personally preferred Miyazawa and Sankyo over the Yamaha; and after a very difficult decision I ended up with Miyazawa.
 
If you are buying one of the various cheap-line, top-brand-name flutes, i.e. most likely a somewhat classy head on a Chinese body, then I suggest you take a few keys off and check the tone holes. If the roll has been obviously filed flat then you could be in for a heap of unreliability; the issue could be disatrous if a solution is attempted. I have met this with Sankyo designed Azumi, and Powell's Sonare.
You cannot see this without taking keys off.
 
If you are buying one of the various cheap-line, top-brand-name flutes, i.e. most likely a somewhat classy head on a Chinese body, then I suggest you take a few keys off and check the tone holes. If the roll has been obviously filed flat then you could be in for a heap of unreliability; the issue could be disatrous if a solution is attempted. I have met this with Sankyo designed Azumi, and Powell's Sonare.
You cannot see this without taking keys off.
Which seems to lead us with even more emphasis back to makes of known high quality control: Yamaha, Miyazawa, Muramatsu, Sankyo are the main names that come to my mind. I am not sure whether any of these offer a flute at the $US 1500 level except Yamaha. It also begs the question of whether a $1500 Yamaha would be functionally better than what she's playing now. If she is currently playing a $800 Yamaha, you may not really find a big functional upgrade. If she is playing a "mystery" $200 flute, it would definitely be an upgrade. If the body of the current flute is a high quality but modestly priced body (for example, a silver plated closed hole Yamaha student flute) and it's in good condition, there may be a lot more value for money by keeping the same body and just buying a new (or high quality used) head joint. I think the head joint you can get for $1500 is a lot better than the head joint that will come on a $1500 flute; and the head joint is the main contributor to sound. Assuming, that is, that the current flute is a quality instrument of modest specifications and price, rather than an el cheapo piece of junk.

I don't know the flute market the way Gordon does so maybe he can provide more specific comments.
 
Which seems to lead us with even more emphasis back to makes of known high quality control: Yamaha, Miyazawa, Muramatsu, Sankyo are the main names that come to my mind...
Where do DiMedici flutes fall in this spectrum? I bought a Dimedici a few years ago for my daughter, but it remains unplayed. It does not have the model number marked on the body, but has silver head and body tube, open holes, offset G, low B foot, and engraving on the key cups. 1200 series? It looks similar to the 1311, but I don't think it has a gold riser - that would be visible, right?

Image
 
I don't know enough about the Di Medici C flutes to answer this, really. I have a Di Medici alto that is very good.

I think you would be able to see the gold riser if you had a strong light and looked down in the space between the embouchure plate and the tube. Remember, though, that one of the colors silver can take on as it tarnishes is a yellowish color that could easily be mistaken for gold, especially down in a crack as described.
 
Thanks again for all the very informative comments. I live in Manila where, except for the cheap Chinese made flutes, our choice is limited. We are not used to buying on line so the alternative is to go to Hong Kong and buy from Tom Lee. She has narrowed down her choice to any of the following: Yamaha (Series 300-400) Miyazawa, Azumi and Pearl which from the information we got from the internet, have models which will fit our budget.
 
Is that another, more recent, popular professional-style head, like the "EC"? (I have a poor memory for model names of anything)

(The "solid silver" is pretty much irrelevant. It just enables marketing hype.)
 
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