Clip-ons (aka condenser mics) usually take phantom power to work. Make sure you have a phantom power source available. If the engineer running the show has it on the board, just have him make sure that phantom is switched on. If he doesn't know what phantom is or looks at you funny, you may be in trouble. (Yes, that's happend to me in very high-end rock clubs.) It's helpful to have your own phantom power source as a backup for these types of situations. You'll need appropriate cordage in and out of the box, e.g. XLR to quarter inch, etc.

The clip-on mic is excellent for movement. Any music that you feel you need to move with it to get into it. I hated playing into mic stands after I got my little condenser buddy, which is also an AKG but I forgot which as I've had it for so long. (Never was one of those to list all my gear in copious detail...) My AKG survived many drops, bumps, drags, and random yelling into it... never quit on me. It's been pretty stout.

Be aware though that in some genres, especially the more traditional ones (jazz, salsa, R&B, orchestral, etc) you may encounter official resistance. Some old-timers will tell you it isn't "right" to not play into a mic stand, and they want to you work the mic like a vocalist would dynamically. Which is a good point, but, if the band is already so loud you can barely hear your horn, possibly a moot point. It is true that playing into the clip-on will cause your performance style to change esp. with regard to controlling your dynamics. Every breath you take or expel into the horn is duly noted, and amplified. Get ready.

SJ

 

p.s. just one "iffy" about my AKG: the connection from my condenser to the next cord in line, whatever it is. My AKG terminates XLR, and every single XLR I plug into the end of it is always loose. Not loose enough to fall off the connector, but just loose enough that occasionally the sound "pops" and it's very annoying. It sometimes would get down hostile reaction from band members hearing the little "pop" which becomes a big BOOOOM when the sound is amplified a bit more. Just tape the thing securely with lots of painters tape or duck tape (the removable kind) and it'll be okay. Hopefully this flaw in the connector has been fixed in subsequent designs. Check the connection with a real XLR in the store to make sure.

SJ

 

I have both stand and clip-on mics and they both have their strong points. As Sleepless points out, the freedom of movement is great with clip-ons, and the close mic'ing works great at high volumes. I would suggest a wireless system over a wired version to maximize the freedom of movement. With the wireless I'll go out and check the mix, (playing rock or variety), when we're trying to mix from the stage.
To my ears stand mics sound better than clip-ons, which, as Sleepless pointed out, is less important with loud music, but can mean a lot, (and does to me). Loud music sounds very compressed and tonal subtleties are obscured by that, but in a less loud environment a good stand mic, (I love Sennheiser 421's!), is a great tool.
Ultimately it helps to have both, using whatever fits the gig.........Daryl

 

one caveat, not all clip-ons are condensor mics, there are some dynamic models as well.

 

True, and despite Sleepless's experience tiothe contrary, I'ved not seen a board without phantom power in a club in forever.

 

Thanks for all the input - in the end the decision was between an Audio Tecnica Pro 35 and a Beyer Dynamic Opus 62.

I went for the latter on the basis of various advice and the fact that it is specifically meant for wind instruments.

I tried it out last night at a rehearsal and seemed to be fine, although I must say I just don't like miking in general...

cheers,
L.

 

Maybe there should be a "don't like micing-in-general forum"

I appreciated this quote a lot, well put

It is true that playing into the clip-on will cause your performance style to change esp. with regard to controlling your dynamics. Every breath you take or expel into the horn is duly noted, and amplified. Get ready.

I find that I lose most of my dynamic range and timbre control when playing thru a close mic.

I wonder if anyone has ever figured out a way to mic the sax from a greater distance than the usual close-range stand or clip. When I record in the studio I always put the mics at quite a distance. I know it goes way against the logistics of live-sound but I'm hoping to find a way to get the mic a little further away. Has anyone else tried to do that?

--adam

 

Sure--first make sure that none of the other instruments are amplified, and that no one has a monitor. It's pretty easy after that.

Better yet, go acoustic.

 

:twisted::twisted::twisted:

 

Live sound and studio work are about as comparable as apples and Volkswagens.

I have tonnes of experience with the AKG C419, the 417 I believe just has a shorter neck? I absolutely love these mics. They have incredible warm sound without sacrificing transient attack. They reject feedback insanely well (I plugged mine into a wireless kit and literally stood in the middle of the bar in front of the FOH!), and they are rugged.

Also, because the mic is at the same consistent distance, you can have some real insane antics on stage without sacrificing sound. Moreover, one must learn to play with real dynamics, as opposed to just fading away from the mic.

In a nutshell, you have an excellent mic in the C417 and until you're ready to drop more than $1000 into a better clip-on, I wouldn't bother ever changing from the C417. Rock friggin solid it is.

* I do not work for AKG. I just seriously love this product. *

EDIT: PS,

I don't understand why more big bands don't just deck the soloists out in these and make sure the sound-tech has a cue-sheet? I mean, it looks lame to have a bunch of guys waiting in line to share one mic, which should really be EQ'd differently for each horn (Alto, Tenor, Bari, Tpt, Tbone, Mellophone) and when they all end up blasting into the same 57, the saxes sound great, but then the trumpet sounds thin and the bones sound constipated. And unless the sound-tech can eq the one strip almost instantly with exact accuracy (I use 4-band parametric eqs with full frequency spectrum selectable sweeps and variable Q's, so it would be impossible unless I was a dedicated tech for that one band and had practice).

 

Live sound and studio work are about as comparable as apples and Volkswagens.

I have tonnes of experience with the AKG C419, the 417 I believe just has a shorter neck? I absolutely love these mics. They have incredible warm sound without sacrificing transient attack. They reject feedback insanely well (I plugged mine into a wireless kit and literally stood in the middle of the bar in front of the FOH!), and they are rugged.

Also, because the mic is at the same consistent distance, you can have some real insane antics on stage without sacrificing sound. Moreover, one must learn to play with real dynamics, as opposed to just fading away from the mic.

In a nutshell, you have an excellent mic in the C417 and until you're ready to drop more than $1000 into a better clip-on, I wouldn't bother ever changing from the C417. Rock friggin solid it is.

* I do not work for AKG. I just seriously love this product. *

EDIT: PS,

I don't understand why more big bands don't just deck the soloists out in these and make sure the sound-tech has a cue-sheet? I mean, it looks lame to have a bunch of guys waiting in line to share one mic, which should really be EQ'd differently for each horn (Alto, Tenor, Bari, Tpt, Tbone, Mellophone) and when they all end up blasting into the same 57, the saxes sound great, but then the trumpet sounds thin and the bones sound constipated. And unless the sound-tech can eq the one strip almost instantly with exact accuracy (I use 4-band parametric eqs with full frequency spectrum selectable sweeps and variable Q's, so it would be impossible unless I was a dedicated tech for that one band and had practice).

Better yet have the big band play acoustically.:twisted:

When I did big bands, we usually had a split to go to the recording board. Pretty much everything was miked up.

However, I could pick and choose which mics I used.

Just Because A Mic Is There Doesn't Mean It's On.

The horns aren't usually a problem with a big band. The biggest problem is the drums getting into the piano mic(s). My solution to that, when possible, is to take off the piano lid, thereby eliminating a huge reflector.

During a festival I did sound for 27 big bands in one day, starting with the xxxxx community college big band and ending with the UNT 2 o'clock. They each did a twenty minute set (except the 2 o'clock, who went longer), with 10 minutes for a changeover. No time to tweak parametrics.

I didn't listen to any big bands for 5 years after that.

 

Clip-ons may pick up the vibrations created by the keys opening and closing and amplify them. Mostly it isn't noticeable while playing with a group. It's most noticeable while you're doing a mike check. If you will be very exposed and the overall volume isn't that loud you might prefer a mic on a stand.

 

Crappy microphones or poorly placed (clipped on) mics may do this.

A properly placed AKG C-417/419 will not.

I didn't listen to any big bands for 5 years after that.

I wouldn't have either. My god that must have been a nightmare!

Best big stage sound I ever heard for a big band was The Brian Setzer Orchestra at Woodstock 94, but then again, when you can spread out like that it must help a lot. FYI if you missed that performance, they have the rhythm section in the middle, with Saxes on the left, and Bones with Trumpets behind on the right.

 

I disagree, as the diaphragm of this particular mic is smaller than your pinky finger nail, and very very very directional, designed to be placed right over the bell, obviously facing down the middle parallel with the top.

So if you finger the sax without blowing, there is no key noise?
The acoustic isolation arrangement must be very good with this mic. I always get a bit of key noise with my Shure 98 on tenor or alto. It's not a problem, but it's there.

 

These mics are light-years better than a Shure 98 on horns.

If you're not blowing and comping hard enough, then maybe some key-noise, but its so negligible that I don't even think about it.

Using an SM58 on the other hand.... ugh!

 

Thanks for that bit of info on the AKG clip-ons. I do need another, to save swapping mics when I change horns.

 

Dynamic mic

So, does anyone else here use a dynamic clip rather than a condenser clip mic?

L.

 

Re: Dynamic mic

So, does anyone else here use a dynamic clip rather than a condenser clip mic?

L.

So Lorenzo,,have you made a decision,or did you get the Audio Tecnica 35?
I also might be interested in getting back a clip on,and was suggested the Audio 35,but will have to try it first!Did owned a AKG 419,,did'nt care much for it,,thought the sound was very uneven in the lows and in the high register,and very much keynoisy,,while my stand mic stays natural in all register,and personaly prefer over the clip on!
Anyways,just wanted to know,If you got the Audio 35?
Bet regards
Saxobari

 

Amen to that!!! Love the freedom of wireless, but Ive found I Only use my for big stage, concert type inviorment. Then if it`s outside there are a whole new set of Problems, like wind and worst of all Truckers with CB boosters. That will really freek out the crowd. Thunder storms and clubs with a lot of Neon also do Stange things. Best thing in tight spaces is to Work the Mic. Bell mounted Mics make you play differently { little dinamics}

 

There is a converter box for phatom mics. Will get model and relay info