It's easy to do and it is often recommended by applied instructors that all performance majors get a bachelor's in music ed. Very often a performance degree just requires more credits of lessons, a few more ensemble credits and a full recital. For music ed., most often you need only to perform a half recital.

 

I would recommend doing both if you can, and if it is allowed. Its worth adding on an extra year of school if you need it.

 

...or you can look into what kind of teacher certification Texas requires and, if possible, concentrate on performance and when you have your performance degree in hand, take the extra semester or whatever, to get the teaching certificate. I only mention that because if performance is your goal IMO it's better to be putting your nose to the performance grindstone from the get-go and not get bogged down early on with academic courses.

 

Gary, I would take the semester off so that I can do Basic, and Advanced Specialty training. (I would of already signed up, just don't want to miss that first semester of school). So it really wouldn't be a "semester off" it would just be more playing and training...

 

Carbs - I don't know what you're talking about. Sorry, I don't understand your post.

 

But not one mis-spelled word!

He's on his way.

 

I did exactly what gary described. I did all of my general ed courses, along with the performance degree courses, then I concentrated on getting my music ed degree, including student teaching. So I finished with a Bachelor of Music, and a Bachelor of Music education, and was ready to be certified.

Nowadays, certification usually requires the satisfactory completion of the Praxis II examination. The required tests and sub-tests and minimum scores vary from state to state, with Oregon being the most rigorous.

Also PLEASE NOTE. Unless you attend year round, or can take 18+ credits per semester, you can't get both in four years. It took me six years to get both degrees. Many schools recommend that you get a bachelors in a discipline, and then enter a teacher training program, so it is getting more and more usual for teacher certification to take five to six years total.

 

I am currently a freshman doing both music education and performance at Ohio State. My advisor at school has helped me a lot with mapping out my plan for this. Currently I should be able to graduate with both degrees in 4 years. Granted, I did come in to college with some credits already, but if you take some summer classes, you should be fine. In order to do this, I am going to be taking over the credit hour cap that my university puts on students for at least the next two years. If you are willing to work hard enough, those two degrees are definitely attainable.
If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

 

I just completed my bachelor's in performance with a minor in music education. The minor in music education allows me to complete the MAT program for a master's in music education and teacher certification in Pennsylvania in just one extra year instead of two. So you have a master's degree and certification in a total of five years. I have not heard of any program faster than this for a master's degree and teacher certification, though some others might exist.

I think gary is only confused about the content of that post, just as I was. What is meant by basic and specialty training? Are you talking about the military or some kind of teacher training??

 

but I would like in 15 years to make it into a Premier Military Band (I know that is a lofty goal)

Why do you think you need to wait 15 years? Most everyone I've known in the President's Own joined immediately out of their masters programs or in the year or two after. I hope it doesn't take you that long to get through your degree program!

If you really want to get into one of the top service bands, you may be selling yourself short by thinking you need to take 15 years to accomplish that goal.

 

Yes in 15 years I would like to be in a Top Military Band. I don't think I am really selling myself short rather being realistic.
I don't have any credit yet, but next summer I would like to take classes and work on the required ones that really have nothing to do with music (to try and help speed the process up some...).

The Advanced Specialty training is military. I was accepted into a Military band Texas ANG. But the problem is that I would have to miss a semster of school. I would like to get my Bacholors done first and then take that semster to take off.

Sorry about the Grammar...

How hard is doing a double major? I figured that most of the classes would be the same, but wasn't sure....

 

Yes in 15 years I would like to be in a Top Military Band. I don't think I am really selling myself short rather being realistic.

I appreciate that attitude, but here's my perspective, and I am aware that everyone is different.

Most of us are never in our lives in better playing shape than right when we finish school. I know that was the case for me. Why? Because you have nothing to worry about other than playing your a** off. You can practice for 4, 6, 8 hours in a day. Once you're in a school teaching from 8-3, paying bills, buying groceries, having a family life, socializing and the like, it gets hard to find time to practice a lot.

Ten years out of my masters degree, I feel that I'm a more well-rounded musician, and I understand much more about the saxophone. But, my sax playing is not locked in like it was when I just finished school, because I only play a couple of hours a day.

Obviously, we're all different as people and in the way we live our lives, and maybe 15 years is right for you. But I'd still encourage you to strive for your goal of playing in one of the top military bands sooner rather than later. Others may have different views, and I'd be interested to hear them.

 

Talk to your advisor, to be sure, but I would also recommend doing both if you can. You may get a longer lesson every week, and you'll have to play a full recital at some point, rather than a half recital. (Many ed majors do this anyways). I'm officially an ed major, but I'm planning on working in more and more performance to get both degrees.

I will say this, and it's very important that you understand this when going into music ed. This is a very very big degree. At my college, the recommend courseload, per semester, is around 22 credits to get through in 4 years. And, and top of that, let's say you're only taking 16 credits. Most majors, you can take 4 classes and get right around that. As a music major, you'll be taking 8-9. Music classes tend to be worth less credits, even if they are the same amount of work.

Next semester, I am taking 13 classes, for around 21 credits. Most people I know take 5 years to get through, some take 6.

I'm certain we must statistically be on the top of the "most common to change majors" list, and I would also bet that music majors have statistically significant levels of depression and other similar issues. Even for those of us (like myself) who absolutely love it, and who keep on pressing on, there have been many times I've nearly given up.

I'm not trying to scare you off, I know you've made your decision. But I'd take it all in baby steps and test the water a little bit. I absolutely think you should do it if it's what you love, but you should know what you're getting into. For every person who has changed majors from music, there are two who are saying "I want to be a music major." If you're accepted, and you're in, it's something to be darn proud of.

 

...and it is not necerssary to do both. You could simply get the ed. degree while busting your *** to get your chops together, then get a master's performance. Either way, you're with the horn. Basically, you can get an ed. degree witrh the chops of a performance major, which SHOULD be the mentality of ed majors anyway. Afterall, they will be teaching music.

 

I was thinking this myself. I can't think of a good reason to have both, they aren't going to ask for your degree before you go up on the bandstand.

 

Oh and the loftier the goals, the better

 

may carbs succeed happily in the goals he highly set for himself. it's possible, carbs. do it.

 

Thanks

And let's not forget its and it's.

And with that said, I want to say that I am very impressed with the marked improvement Carbs has made in both spelling and grammar. It speaks well of him and augers well for his future that he has done so and that has handled with grace the often harsh criticism from us here. It's a tough house.

Congrats on graduation and best wishes for the coming months, whatever direction you decide to take.

Ruth

Thanks Ruth, comeing from you that means alot.

As for whether it is nescary or not, that has yet to be decided. I have wanted to be a Band teacher for awhile, but their is some part of me that really wanted to preform, and I figure I can do both. The problem will come with school. If I want to teach music I need the degree and the certification.
From what I understand the Preformance degree gets you ready for preforming for a living. While the Education gets you ready to teach for a living.

 

You did so well then failed at the finishing line.

coming, necessary, perform, performance

Use a spell checker plugin for your web browser.
Firefox has one builtin in version two or above.
Only needed for linux or windows - mac has builtin spell checker for all programs.

 

Thanks I however I can not instal anything on this computer that I typed that on, because it is a friends computer.

However I will take it into consideration later.

 

(He says in his most Reaganesque tone of voice): "Well, they're you go". I mean, "well their you go". :twisted:

Spelling and grammar aside, carbs what's this about "Basic and Advanced Specialty training"? I thought you had to already be qualified at the "advanced" musical level as a bandsman, therefore you only go to basic training and then on to your assigned band. As a bandsman where are they going to send you for "Advanced Specialty training"? I believe all Air Force advanced training is administrated from within the band you will be assigned to. Are you sure you've got that right? Or that you're not being hoodwinked and sent into another career field than band?

 

Gary,
the way it was explained to me by the recruiter the basic would take 7 weeks, then I would be sent to play with an Active Duty Air force band, which would take a semester away from me school wise.
So what I am thinking about maybe doing is, getting it started earlier because I wouldn't take the ASVAB, and the physical this year until June 2nd (which I will have no trouble passing). The problem is the 3 months of playing with the band, I thought sense I would be a music major in college that could count as those three months, and that was how it was explained to me by my friend (who is in the band that I was accepted to).

 

You haven't taken the ASVAB, and they signed you up????

 

O.K. so in this regard, the so-called "Advanced Specialty training" is actually a three-month assignment to an active duty band? Got it.

 

I haven't been signed up I was just accepted into the band....

 

Oh.
Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery

We have a lot of our juniors and seniors that take the ASVAB as a means to discover where their career tendencies lie---at least that's what the recruiters say. It's actually a pretty poor instrument for that.

I wouldn't worry about it, though. You only have to get a 36 for the Air Force and the ANG, and the test is normed at 50.

 

I guess that explains why I was getting all those letters from the various service branches while I was in high school.

36!?!:?:shock:

 

However depending on how I like the military I may reup and go active. Really don't know yet.
Gary's right it is the local ANG band that I was accepted into.

AltoRuth, I got this information from my PT, and the recruiter.
The Recruiter flat out told me that they do not take people from the band and put them into other specialties.

If I couldn't play with the band, I was told I would be doing stuff the band needs done.

 

However depending on how I like the military I may reup and go active. Really don't know yet.
Gary's right it is the local ANG band that I was accepted into.

AltoRuth, I got this information from my PT, and the recruiter.
The Recruiter flat out told me that they do not take people from the band and put them into other specialties.

If I couldn't play with the band, I was told I would be doing stuff the band needs done.

Carbs, being the ultimate cynic that I am, being also the mother of a son, and of a son-in-law recently returned from Iraq, and the former aunt-in-law of a real sleeze-ball recruiter (now divorced from my niece to the great relief of us all) for a military branch who shall remain unidentified, I urge double and triple checking of all info given to you in an effort to recruit you into the military. Be very sure of what you are signing on for and of just what you are willing to do for your country. And nail down in detail just what is the range of possibilities contained in the category of "stuff the band needs done." Mess hall, garbage detail, gunner, mechanic, perhaps?

With concern for your future,
Ruth

 

Carbs, I think the assignment to the band is stable but you have to realise that what you have been told is policy, not any kind of legal obligation the ANG has towards you. If, for example, you prove to be a weak performer it is possible to reclassify you and send you to another career field. If all other fields in your ANG are filled, that is no vacancies, then they might discharge you instead.

Regarding going active duty, I know that's down the line, but keep in mind that just being in a Guard band swings little weight if you want to get into an active duty band. Unless things change, you'll be competing with highly qualified university music program graduates. Those giving the audition may be more traditional folks who would give an advantage to a guard person or it could be others who couldn't care less about that and who will simply chose the most musically qualifies person whom the also think they can get along with. Furthermore, keep in mind that no active duty band can take you if there are no vacancies and I believe that in the foreseeable future vacancies are going to be far and few between. What I'm saying is that you can't just switch over just because you are in an ANG band.

But back to the original subject, if I'm not mistaking your assignment to an ANG band is pretty secure. Just keep in mind that if that ANG unit gets called into service overseas the band is likely to go with it and if you're in a combat zone you might be used doing other things than playing "God Bless the USA". :twisted:

And frankly, at first I though your going into the guard band might not be a bad thing but if it is going to hold up your schooling as much as you seem to be implying that it will, then I would have second thoughts.

 

National Guard units are being called up to active duty all over the country. As further illustration of your responsibilities to serve in other duties as assigned, I know a kid (loosely related -- I would say "step cousin-in-law") who enlisted in the Air Force. About two years ago, his entire unit was "reassigned" to the Army. This is no lie. He enlisted in the Air Force, and was reassigned to the Army, and wound up manning a gun turret in Iraq -- in a place less-than-affectionately known as "Blood Alley."

I'm not trying to discourage your service. In fact, I applaud it. Just know that the military does not exist merely to provide live music at official functions.

 

No expert in the hoodwinking of young people can compare to the skill of military recruiters. That's what they are paid for. Be careful.

 

My girlfriend's father is a retired military recruiter. :O

Anyways, about the double major thing... I haven't read any replies really, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. A friend of mine is a double major, music performace (guitar) and engineering. If you think you're up for it, go for it!

 

I agree with what is being said of recruiters. My father joined the Army as a physician about 5 years ago to do medical research (luckily his previous work experience granted him rank of Lieutenant Colonel) and he didn't get any research opportunities...he did get some false allegations and unauthorized chart reviews while in Iraq though...


I've done a little research into service bands as a career opportunity after college as well. I remember reading that if you do not get into the premier ensemble, or there are no spots open, you can get assigned to a band at any base/post has an opening. So you could audition for the top band and end up in Ft. Drum. Also, I think the "stuff for the band" included filing, secretarial work, general maintenance on the base/post, and some night guard work. However, that all was listed as responsibilities for active duty members of the ensembles, not for those that didn't make it. I wouldn't be too worried about fighting though, as musicians don't get very much combat training. Your duty would be for moral, not defense. If you did go into combat, it would be as a very last resort.

 

If you did go into combat, it would be as a very last resort.

When the military unilaterally extends enlistments and assigns Air Force units to perform Army combat duties, does that qualify as very last resort?

 

I was asked why I needed to get both degree's, the Music Education and the preformance degree. I think the preformance degree will help me the most to try and get into a Premier band. Also I think it can improve my playing alot.

I am going to enlist, maybe not this year and depending on what happens at school maybe not next. But withen the next 4 years I want to Enlist after trying out again for a Guard band. If after finishing my Masters in preformance I have the opprutinity to go active and play with a top band. I'll take it, if during that enlistment period if my services changed (from Air force to Army etc.) then I will have no choice but to fullfill my contract and I will probably not renlist. This is when the Education degree will come in handy because I can then find a job.

 

II am going to enlist, maybe not this year and depending on what happens at school maybe not next. But withen the next 4 years I want to Enlist after trying out again for a Guard band. If after finishing my Masters in preformance I have the opprutinity to go active and play with a top band. I'll take it.

What happened with your audition with the local/regional Air Guard band? I thought you got in.

Now I'm confused. But why should it be any other? After all, this is a carbs thread. :shock: