Wrap a piece of paper around the cork, and put the mouthpiece where it should be.

 

If the issue is that you cannot put the mouthpiece in the right position, get it recorked by your tech...he/she should be able to put a new cork on while you wait.

 

You can put some steam from a boiling tea kettle for a few seconds on the cork, which will expand it. After that you should be able to place your mouthpiece a bit further at the correct position without leaks.

 

I use the flame from a lighter. But I like your idea better.

Failing that, I'd use paper in the old days, but plumbers teflon tape these days.

 

Another trick is to wind some plumber's teflon tape around the neck cork to build it up for a tighter fit with the mouthpiece. The yellow gas tape is best, because it's heavier duty than the white tape used for water pipes. I carry a reel of it in my tenor case all the time.

 

Get a new neck cork, and have your horn checked for leaks while you are at it.

Happiness is a good tenor in great working condition.

Enjoy the new horn.

 

And in the mean time, wrap a piece of paper around the cork.

I find those thermal-print receipts work really well. I've usually got one in my wallet.

Make do! Use it up! Wear it out!

I am really surprised by how many people think the place where some mouthpiece came to rest on the cork has significance to a different mouthpiece played by a different person. It's either "it plays too sharp when I push on to where the crushed part stops" or "it plays flat because I can't push it on far enough". The neck cork is a consumable item and it is provided for the purpose of adjustment.

I have played many thousands of hours and hundreds of paying gigs with a piece of paper wrapped around the cork.

 

All my Selmers (Modele 26, Mark VI and Mark VII) were sharp for me. I wrapped a piece of paper at the end of the cork to hold the mouthpiece on tighter. I eventually gave up Selmers for this problem.

I've had a Conn, Couf, Grassi, MacSax, and Yamaha and my mouthpiece is about 2/3 the way into the cork, my Selmers were always at the tip of the cork.

I posted a thread on this a few months ago, and the general consensus was that "it must be me, not the saxes".

I'm not so sure, but in the unlikely event that I ever go to buy another Selmer, if it's sharp, it's a deal breaker for me.

Insights and incites by Notes

 

Another point: older horns usually already went through several replacements of the neck cork. It's not uncommon that techs install corks a bit longer each time to hide imperfections at the lacquer transition. So, you end up with older horns typically having a longer cork than new ones. And that gives you even more of an impression that you are not pushing the mouthpiece in enough. I agree you should just get a tech to properly install a cork that matches your mouthpiece and then go play it!

 

A Guardala should tune on a MK VI tenor about 1" in, generally speaking. The tenor neck cork only needs to be about 1.25" to 1.5". You need to have the shank end of the mouthpiece rounded out before doing anything else. The next step is to replace the cork and size it to the mouthpiece. Maybe that 'excellent technician' will do that for you since he botched the first attempt.
After this, you should be GTG unless something else is wrong with the sax or neck. A 127xxx will have a numbered neck - do you have the original neck? Does the neck fit the body tight enough so you could play it without the screw? Have you checked your mouthpiece for anything that might be in it or having been added to it, like a throat restriction, a piece of cork, a build-up of cork grease or anything?

 

The neck has no serial but my understanding is that the horn was assembled in France without a stamped serial and that this was the original neck to the horn. He recorked it when I got it, the Guardala always eats neck cork haha. My mouthpiece is clean I clean it regularly. I'll try an inch or so and see how it tunes. I have a feeling I just need to work with it until I can learn it's quirks and play it in tune, I can play along with things in tune, so I'll just keep working with the horn. Thanks for the help.

 

Thank you guys for all your help. I'll stick some paper on it for now.

 

Double tap

 

A yamaha 26 is much more of a "fixed pitched" instrument than a Mark VI. Meaning that you blow air and wiggle fingers and you don't have to think about intonation. The purpose is to allow young kids to play "in tune" and work towards a developed embrasure. You now have an instrument with no "training wheels". It will be much more flexible then the 26 was. Its like walking in a new pair of shoes that are a little too big but you have room to grow into them.

My advice is to give it time and to remember that it is much easier to drop the jaw to bring things down to pitch then it is to bite and squeeze up to pitch. I know it may be uncomfortable or awkward at first to keep things that open inside the mouth, but trust me, later on you'll thank me.

 

You can also expand the cork using a hair dryer. There is no reason you should have to keep the mpc pushed way onto the cork to the point the horn plays sharp! But also make sure your embouchure is relaxed and you aren't biting too hard.

 

Dip it in a pot with boiling water, that's the easiest to apply the heat evenly around the perimeter of the cork. It's a temporary solution until you get it re-corked, which is the correct solution in the long run. Also, a softer reed may help with the pitch.

 

All the saxes of the same size I have played (except C Melody & soprano) have had similar intonation.
Same note issues (ie. middle D).
Tenor and alto tendencies to have the same intonation.
Mouthpieces have had a bigger effect.
I know Yamaha uses computer models in designing all their various types of instruments.
The earlier makers did have math and slide rules.
Slower but accurate.

 

There are far too many variables that affect the pitch to "generalize" where the mouthpiece should go on the neck. Some that come to mind are mouthpiece input pitch, effective volume inside the mouthpiece, stiffness of the reed, and the length of the neck itself. If you want to find out the natural resonant frequency of the body tube of your saxophone that is determined by its length remove the mouthpiece, finger low Bb, and put your ear up to the end of the neck like a stethoscope. There is usually a fan running somewhere nearby that is sending out soundwaves that with create a sympathetic vibration of the air column inside your sax. Another variation is to finger low Bb and place a tuner close to the neck as you "pop" one of the lower stack keys. That will set the air inside into vibration at the sax's natural resonant frequency much like a plastic "boomwhacker" and you can read what pitch/frequency is produced.

 

Do people read the first post before responding anymore???

 

I have wondered many times ...

 

You're right about the French Selmer not having a numbered neck. You can verify it is a 'Frenchie' by the engraving style which should be large 'Fleur-de-lis'. That and the neck not being numbered are the principle clues although some of them have nickel-silver key work.

Yes, I can generalize about this issue because in my long experience the average Selmer tenor player has the mouthpiece on the neck about an inch or more and you almost never see one with the mouthpiece hanging off the end. This qualifies me to say that if the OP does not tune up a MK VI without being too far out on the cork, there is a problem with the player, the mouthpiece, the neck or the sax, or any combination of those. As a Guardala player, if I encountered a sax that I could not tune far enough on the cork to have stability, I would not own that sax.

 

Thanks for all the replies. I think the cork fits pretty well. Now that the cork is worn in to where I've had the mouthpiece, that is probably the most stable place for it. I can play it in tune better the more I get used to it. This is probably a function of the bigger bore size and the freeblowing nature of my mouthpiece and reed. There's a lot more flexibility as far as the pitch is concerned, so I think I'll just keep working with the horn and see where that takes me. Thanks for all the amazing tips, I attached pictures of the cork and mouthpiece so you can see it better.

 

Well, Ed, that's about where I would expect a long skinny mouthpiece to end up on a Selmer tenor. But if putting it there makes you sharp, why don't you pull out? If pulling out makes it too loose on the cork, wrap a piece of paper around the cork and put the MP where it ought to be.

Modifying one's "natural input pitch" can happen (it has happened to me) but it's a slower, more incremental process, and if you need to grab the horn and play in tune TODAY, you need to get the cork sized so you can put the MP wherever it needs to go.

I mean, what are you going to do when you play Saturday and the AC is out and it's 85 degrees, and then Sunday in a different place that has AC down at meat locker temps? That's why we move the MP up and down on the cork, to compensate. (Or, what if the piano hasn't been tuned in a really long time and it's running a quarter step flat?)

 

Well, Ed, that's about where I would expect a long skinny mouthpiece to end up on a Selmer tenor. But if putting it there makes you sharp, why don't you pull out? If pulling out makes it too loose on the cork, wrap a piece of paper around the cork and put the MP where it ought to be.

Modifying one's "natural input pitch" can happen (it has happened to me) but it's a slower, more incremental process, and if you need to grab the horn and play in tune TODAY, you need to get the cork sized so you can put the MP wherever it needs to go.

I mean, what are you going to do when you play Saturday and the AC is out and it's 85 degrees, and then Sunday in a different place that has AC down at meat locker temps? That's why we move the MP up and down on the cork, to compensate. (Or, what if the piano hasn't been tuned in a really long time and it's running a quarter step flat?)

Thanks I will use the paper for now if I have to. There wouldn't be much pulling out anyway before it goes flat. I can adjust to situations fairly well, but I understand the scenarios where you'd have to move it around, there's no AC at my house haha, I wish! I really appreciate all the sound advice and thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

Arghh, that cork needs to be shaped - and if it is loose when you pull out a bit, then it is too conical.

That step indicates that it is going to be difficult to push it on any more too. The cork should be smooth and cylindrical. FWIW, my new tech (I moved in the last year) not only fits the cork to my mouthpiece, but impregnates the cork with paraffin wax such that I don't need to apply cork grease. The mouthpiece is easy to put on, easy to adjust, and holds position - just as it should be.

 

Arghh, that cork needs to be shaped - and if it is loose when you pull out a bit, then it is too conical.

That step indicates that it is going to be difficult to push it on any more too. The cork should be smooth and cylindrical. FWIW, my new tech (I moved in the last year) not only fits the cork to my mouthpiece, but impregnates the cork with paraffin wax such that I don't need to apply cork grease. The mouthpiece is easy to put on, easy to adjust, and holds position - just as it should be.

Do you know any details of the "impregnate with paraffin wax" process? I might try that.

 

Congrats on your new Mark VI, and terrific that it has been set up by an excellent tech! You are going to love it!

All five of the Mark VIs I have owned were also set up by excellent techs, and every one has had excellent intonation throughout the range, but all of them have required the mouthpiece to be positioned further out to the tip of the neck than on any of the many other modern horns I have owned. Nearly every piece is at 1/2 and less of the cork length. I have no idea why, and it bothered me a bit at first, but as long as I have a good seal it plays fine (ohhh so fine), so I have pretty much gotten used to seeing more cork...not an issue whatsoever.

Teflon (plumber's) tape is cheap and works great for a short fix to get a loose piece to fit securely.Sounds like you are settled on this one piece, so lots of good advice in previous posts to make it more cork-friendly.

 

Congrats on your new Mark VI, and terrific that it has been set up by an excellent tech! You are going to love it!

All five of the Mark VIs I have owned were also set up by excellent techs, and every one has had excellent intonation throughout the range, but all of them have required the mouthpiece to be positioned further out to the tip of the neck than on any of the many other modern horns I have owned. Nearly every piece is at 1/2 and less of the cork length. I have no idea why, and it bothered me a bit at first, but as long as I have a good seal it plays fine (ohhh so fine), so I have pretty much gotten used to seeing more cork...not an issue whatsoever.

Teflon (plumber's) tape is cheap and works great for a short fix to get a loose piece to fit securely.Sounds like you are settled on this one piece, so lots of good advice in previous posts to make it more cork-friendly.

Thanks again! After filling the mpc shank dent out and applying more cork grease I have to say the cork is holding it very well and I can move the mpc back further. Thanks for the advice, you've made one saxophone player very happy!

 

You might try a little teflon tape, the kind plumbers use. I keep a roll in my gig bag just in case the cork cracks.

Notes

 

Yeah that's probably a good idea. Thanks.

 

I have read this entire thread. I have mentioned this on other threads with no reply, but I persist. I wonder if everybody is on the right track. Has anybody considered the key height? I had an "excellent" tech once tell me that they always open the keys up as wide as possible for greater projection. I knew that this was wrong; mostly because of many years of reading SOTW posts. Too low on the key height is muffled and flat. Too high and the horn blows sharp.

I have no idea who your tech is and am not challenging his ability, but isn't it worth a look?

 

I have read this entire thread. I have mentioned this on other threads with no reply, but I persist. I wonder if everybody is on the right track. Has anybody considered the key height? I had an "excellent" tech once tell me that they always open the keys up as wide as possible for greater projection. I knew that this was wrong; mostly because of many years of reading SOTW posts. Too low on the key height is muffled and flat. Too high and the horn blows sharp.

I have no idea who your tech is and am not challenging his ability, but isn't it worth a look?

I agree that key height affects intonation and the way the notes speak, but after getting the mpc dent removed and expanding the cork, I think the intonation is now very stable. Perhaps it was just a matter of long tones and spending time on the horn. I think the heights are perfect and the keys and spring tension feel great. It plays like a new horn, but much better. Thank you for your help!

 

Many of the MK 6s tend to play sharp. They are made for larger chambers compared to many mouthpieces today have. If you can’t get the mouthpiece to fit comfortably on the sax, you could try some larger chamber pieces like and Otto link NY or a JJ DV NY. They might play a bit more intune then a gurdala, which from what i understand tend to have a shorter shank and smaller chamber

 

Many of the MK 6s tend to play sharp. They are made for larger chambers compared to many mouthpieces today have. If you can't get the mouthpiece to fit comfortably on the sax, you could try some larger chamber pieces like and Otto link NY or a JJ DV NY. They might play a bit more intune then a gurdala, which from what i understand tend to have a shorter shank and smaller chamber

Selmer?!? I'd agree with that statement in regards to the American saxophone manufacturers, but Selmer kinda revolutionized the concept of the pea shooter.

 

My experience is that Yamahas are more precise and the tone is nice but predictable. Selmer MK VI is a bit less precise in intonation, but the tone and "feel" more than make up for it.

Obviously, you need to reposition your mouthpiece to enable proper intonation on your Selmer. It means you need to get the cork redone on the neck of the horn. A technician should be willing to do this very affordably in about 10 minutes. Then you can set it where you need to without it leaking. If it's too tight, you can always sand off a bit of the cork, but if it's too loose, there's little you can do.

One trick I know is temporary but can be a lifesaver if you're on a gig. Take a standard cigarette lighter and CAREFULLY wave the flame over the cork as evenly as you can. You don't want to scorch it or set it on fire, but the heat from the flame will cause the cork to swell a bit. Add a bit of cork grease and you are ready to rock n' roll! Usually, the cork will compress back to its usual size fairly quickly, but it can get you through a few gigs.