Speakers... IF you have room, and want some really exotic speakers, check out the offerings at www.pispeakers.com . You can buy ready to play, or kits. These are very well conceived and designed speakers. My friend Wayne Parham is an engineer who really knows his speaker acoustics! For what these are, the price is a bargain.

My current speakers are some old SpeakerLab spkrs, back when they made some really nice, high end stuff. I am looking very hard at replacing them soon.

Power amp-preamp... most companies just offer "receivers (FM + Pre and Power amps in one box), unless you want to go to very high end gear. BTW, I am an old diehard, and am running Onkyo integrated amp (pre + power amp) and a separate AM/FM tuner. I like Onkyo geat, btw.

I am NOT convinced with Monster cable and others... for speaker wire I have always used 14 gauge zip cord, and this works just fine. I DO like gold plated plugs on rest of the signal cables. Gold does not corrode, and the connection stays good. I have no preferences about brand names, but don't buy bargain store cables.

Like you, I have NEVER been convinced that tubes have any sonic qualities that make music sound better. Nor did I believe the talk about digital (when CD's first came out) sounding "gritty" or harsh.

I still have a Techics turntable with Shure V5 cartridge. Yes, it works. Hah.

 

Check out my alias. Acoustics is not only my line of work (I have a Ph.D. in the field) but my other pastime (saxophone playing being the other).

If you're looking to spend not too much money, I give the new Klipsch RB-15 horn-based monitors my HIGHEST recommendation. The midrange and high end are absolutely phenomenal. To give you an idea of what my opinion is based on, I am a lucker owner of the $11k MartinLogan Prodigy electrostatics, Stereophile magazine's 2001 Joint Loudspeaker of the Year. Besides that, just how good is my recommendation? I bought a pair of those Klipsch's myself a couple months ago...for only around $250. And I bought a Klipsch center channel to mate with the Prodigy (now THAT says something about how clean and crisp they sound). There, I put my money where my mouth is (in this case, my ears). Yes, they're THAT good.

As for cables, Paul Coats is right on the money (if that means saving money, ). Go with standard 12 guage cable from Parts Express for $35/100ft. You won't be disappointed. Not only do they look manly you can run them longer distances without affecting the highs. Interconnects and optical cables -- same thing. Seriously, don't waste your money.

Amplifiers/pre-amps...as Paul said, go with a receiver but make sure you go with an upper end model from the higher end companies like Sony ES, Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneeer Elite. The amplifiers built into them are good.

CD players...just get a DVD player with an optical output because the receiver will be doing the digital-to-analog conversion anyway (another reason to go with a higher end receiver -- they have better DACs). I recommend Pioneer's newest DVD player that plays not only DVD's and CD's but also SACD and DVD-Audio. That unit can be had for $180.

I do disagree with Paul about one thing: tubes. I believe they can make a difference. The loudspeaker/amplifier combination is a highly coupled system meaning they affect how each other performs and sounds. I myself don't care too much about tubes. I admit though that I do like how they glow. I'll stick with transistors because they're cheap and they're not as delicate as glass tubes.

And when you have all this set up, make sure you listen to the MUSIC, not the system. Because after all, it's ALL about the music. And use that system to practice your Aebersold's. :wink:

 

Yeah, Saxy, you are right... Pi offers certain models made especially for use with tube amps.

Yes, tubes do sound a little different, I hear it as a high end rolloff. Others say tube are warmer, or that when they distort, the distortion is more mellow. That is true... tubes distort and the resulting harmonics are even numbered harmonics, which are more mellow. Transistor amps distort by clipping, which is odd numbered harmonics. Also, tubes are very low power.

There is a "High Efficiency Forum" for speakers, for horn designs mostly for use with very low powered tube amps.

These days you can get many receivers that have 5 channels, not just for stereo music, but for use with an entire entertainment system... TV and all, with extra inputs from the TV, or satellite receiver. And these have the Dolby surround sound capability with 5 amps built in. Personally, for my next upgrade, I am going to buy such a receiver.

In general, I do not like small subwoofers... If it is not at least a 12" woofer, it is not going to reproduce really good bass. Small subs will make low thumps that some think is music, but it is really distortion.

I LIKE HORNS!!! I love horn mids and tweeters! They are precise, realistic, and cones and domes just do not sound like a good horn system. Give me a three way with horns on the mid and tweeter, and a 15" woofer... that is MY kind of speaker!

But realistically, a good pair of satellites, with a REAL subwoofer, can sound very good.

Back to cables... for my PA gear, I use the 12 gauge from Parts Express for my speaker cables. For short runs in the house, with about 10" going to each speaker, 14 gauge is fine.

 

Hi Paul.

Nice to finally meet you on this forum. I've enjoyed your articles over the years. You seem to be into audio. If there's anything concerning audio you want to discuss please don't hesitate to email me. And yes, HORNS DO ROCK. It's easy to understand why: the horns make the tweeters more efficient and thus the horn-tweeter combo can play louder with less distortion; the tweeter doesn't work as hard to play loud which allows it to stay in or closer to the linear region. Less distortion equals more realistic sound.


Tears June,

I completely forgot about the subwoofer. How could I forget my great fetish? :wink:

Subwoofers are nice (as opposed to full range stereo speakers) because of the ability to move them around the room. Due to the long wavelengths at the low frequencies subwoofers are highly coupled to the room and thus you must experiment with placement of the sub within the room to get the best sound. Plus, subwoofers are more efficient when placed closer to walls and corners. This helps to lower harmonic distortion at higher volumes.

There are so many subwoofers out there and only a few worth recommending. With the money you save on the cables and amplifiers and speakers, buy a good subwoofer. Bass is the foundation of your system's sound. Plus bass is so extremely difficult to reproduce linearly (without distortion) even at moderate volume levels. The only sub I can recommend without hesitation is the Paradigm Servo 15 which can be had for under $1500. It is servo controlled meaning it compares the driver's movement to that of the analog electrical input signal that it is supposed to be reproducing and corrects for any differences between the two. The reason I like this particular servo controlled subwoofer so much is because it's capable of reproducing up to 150 Hz rather than up to 100 Hz or below like most other subs on the market. This allows it to blend seamlessly with smaller satellites. Not only is it clean it goes DEEP (specified down to 14 Hz!) and it plays LOUD. I own two of these. So again, there's a recommendation for ya. And believe me, I've had at least a dozen subs go through my home over the last 6 years.

The combination of a good Dolby Digital receiver (Dolby mandates an internal crossover for the main speakers and subwoofer in Dolby Digital capable receivers) and a nice set of satellites and a good sub is a potent system. The Klipsch speakers I mentioned, mated with a Paradigm Servo 15 subwoofer, and powered by a high end receiver crossed over at 80 Hz is an extremely high fidelity system -- absolutely killer.

 

First, I want to thanks for all of your information. However, I think may of you have wrong idea. I'm not looking for AV system (I have already).

Some of you have mentioned:

Onkyo amp - May be AV is OK, but what I'm looking for is pure music Hi Fi.

Sub-Woofer speaker = Only for AV.

I have some idea of a nice combination:

Speaker = ProAc Response D15
Pre-Amp = Naim NAC-112
Power-Amp = Naim NAP-150
CD Player = Naim CD-5

That is pure High-End audio equipment. Yes, some High-end user will consider it's only entry model but for me is very good enough.

 

You have to ask yourself what pure hi-fi means. What does hi-fi mean, really? High fidelity means that the system is capable of reproducing faithfully what is on the source, such as a CD. It must be able to reproduce the full frequency spectrum without coloration and without distortion -- flat response from below 20 Hz up to 20 kHz, no distortion. It doesn't matter if it's a two-speaker system with stereo components or a subwoofer/satellite system with an AV receiver. Makes no difference at all. However, practically speaking there are many advantages of a subwoofer/satellite system mated with a properly matched (in terms of the crossover) AV receiver.

Who told you that a subwoofer is suitable only or AV? That is ludicrous. Very few full-range speakers out there can reproduce the low end with the cleanliness and authority required of a "hi-fi" system. With acoustic jazz music it's all about the string bass and a good subwoofer will make it feel as though the bass player is in the room with you. I can play you tracks on my system in which you can hear the low rumblings of the HVAC system in the concert hall as the string ensemble records, or the tapping of a bassist's foot on the recording stage, or even the floor of the concert hall stage resonating in sympathy with cellos coupled to the floor, or even barometric disturbances in the recording space! Some people may ask "Why is it so important to hear those things?" Because when we attend live concerts, that's what we hear and feel although we don't strictly identify what it is we hear and feel. That is the "live" experience you're trying to reproduce with a hi-fi system. A good sub transports you there.

But it seems like you already had a system in mind before you even posed your question. That's fine, it's your money. You don't have to listen to someone who's spent his entire life in audio and acoustics (and music for that matter). But frankly, I can put together and play you a system that costs a small fraction of and will outperform what you're considering buying.

 

So true. "Fidelity" means honestry, faithfulness, truth-telling. That means a hi-fi system must first and foremost reproduce the recording accurately, ideally adding nothing and taking away nothing. The best way to judge a hi-fi is to be thoroughly familiar with the source--that is, to know what live music sounds like and be familiar with the circumstances under which the test recodrings were made. That is the best test of what the system is doing to the sound.

The latter is usually not possible; however, a careful listener can still attend live performances.

Some people save money by purchasing a cheap CD player and a mass-market AV receiver, and pumping money into great speakers. But the better your pre-amp, amp, and loudspeakers, the better your source components had better be. Properly matched and accurate amplification and speakers reveal the smallest shortcomings in the rest of your system Rememebr, the world's finst loudspeakers produce exactly what is fed into them, for better or for worse.

Newer is not always better. My current components range from 12-17 years old, and I'ver never heard a home system that sounds better[louder, more in-your-face, to be sure, but not better]. It's an NAD CD player (piped into an Audio Alchemy DAC) and Ariston turntable and Adcom electronics fed into Spendor loudspeakers and a Velodyne servo-driven sub. The system is well balanced and the components are selected for the way they work together. Each piece is essentially colorless, meaning they add almost nothing and remove almost nothing to/from the source recording. So what comes out is truly high-fidelity.

 

I'm a fan of Magnepan - I have a pair of (about) 15 year-old MG3A's. I like the Klipshorn's (sp?) ok, but I'm not a horn guy, generally. Dynamic speakers are great for jazz and I've heard some good ones....Paradigm and NHT's should be on your list to audition. Still, for me, the Maggies are "in the pocket" for acoustic jazz and electronic stuff.

Saxy Acoustician - I really like the bigger Martin Logans....you lucky dog!!!

 

If your looking to save some money get a used pair of Klipsch Forte's or Forte' II's. They are not made anymore and are part of Klipsch's heritage series. I drive them with a Yamaha RX777 reciever. It is Yamaha's top of the line stereo recievers. It's not a surround sound unit.

I love Klipsch speakers. They have a real presence. Bass is deep, clean and textured. When I hear bass lines out of these speakers I can picture the bass players fingers plucking the course wound strings. Maybe check out the Klipsch forum. Lots of good info there.

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/default.asp?sessionID={2A1B8DEF-6DB4-4DCC-9791-5E493A375CFB}

Be warned, once you go Klipsch nothing else will do.

 

I think you're on the right track, particularly if you can actually test the loudspeaker in your room of choice.

The ProAc design looks nice, and plays well over a broad range of music... although you may need to move it around a bit for best bass response in your room.

I also like the Joseph Audio 2-way (RM22si)

http://www.josephaudio.com
and the Totem Acoustics 2-way (Arro)
http://www.josephaudio.com

As far as electonics goes, solid state is certainly less complicated, and that means more time listening through your gear.

I've got a lovely pair of tube based monoblocks gathering dust while my unheralded Adcom amps do the job.

<http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/index.html>
Watch out, it's an unstable crew that frequents the asylum...

anji12305 "at" yahoo.com

 

Audiophiles were using satellite-subwoofer systems before AV systems came along. One notable design was columns on each side with Jordon modules (small 2" dia titanium cones, 200hz-20khz) with subwoofers.

Of course, you have the real crazies, like Thunder Bob (look him up!) who run Altec -Lansing Voice of the Theater speakers in their homes! Yeah, I can get excited over that!

I have a system in the works now, biamping, active xovers at 800 hz, 15" woofers, and horns. The amp has 4 ch, 100 wt rms each, and when you throw the switch, it hums a few seconds while the filter caps in the power supply charge (50,000 mfd worth) and the rool lights dim slightly. Cool. Btw, my own design, all in a 5" x 19" rack box.

 

An impressive combination I heard a while back is by Von Gaylord Audio (formally Legend Audio). Using their Legend speakers (Focal drivers), LM-The Triode amp, LAD-L2 preamp, and in-house DA converter, produced a very realistic acoustic presentation. I have also heard that their Starlet (integrated triode amp) sounds great and is much lower priced than the Triode 200SE/LAD-L2 combo.

Of course it all comes down to how much you want to spend. The above setup will run $18,000 not including the CD/SACD player. There are much cheaper combinations that also sound great but you can also spend much....MUCH more than $18K too.

 

I love Klipsch speakers...

I knew you were an alright guy! I've been a fan of Klipsch for years - I used to use them in most every system I spec'd when I was doing that sort of thing during my college days.

 

Dr. G,

Do you still have a pair of Klipsch speakers? As you know they are great for Jazz. I'm actually thinking about purchasing a tube amplifier from Jolida. I currently use a Yamaha. I posted to the Klipsch forum about harshness in my Forte's and the response was overwhelming that Yamaha is a bad combination with Klipsch. Any other amp or a tube amp was the recommendation for clearing up this problem.

 

No, I'm running ESS AMT-1B's with a Sansui AU-919 (100w/side, integrated amp). I've had it for 20+ years as my main stereo and I haven't seen (or heard) the need to replace it yet. My friend with the $20k studio system was blown away the first time he heard it. He couldn't believe that it sounded better (in my house) than his did (in his house). Maybe it was the room... Of maybe his Mark Levinson amp wasn't adding enough color. :lol:

 

Re Thunder Bob...holy christ! How did he get those speakers into his living room?? They're bigger than his TV! A bit overkill in my opinion.

I must reiterate my recommendation of the new Klipsch reference line of loudspeakers. They really are that good. What can I say? I've fallen in love with horns.

Frankly, knowing what I know now about audio and acoustics and all that jazz, I don't see the point in spending a lot of money for audio equipment. You just have to take the time to look around and listen to anything and everything you can get your hands on. There are real bargains out there if you cease to associate quality with cost! Yes, my MartinLogan's are nice (I did not buy them--they were passed along to me by my very ill father). But I get more excited about speakers that cost orders of magnitude less and sound just as good. I assure you, a lot of progress has been made to that end. As GHawk stated, NHT and Paradigm speakers are certainly worth your time to audition. My first set of audiophile quality speakers were NHT Superzeros (crossed over at 120Hz and mated with a subwoofer) and to this day they give me that incredible feeling of "being there". Each Superzero was $85! PSB also is known for audiophile grade inexpensive loudspeakers.

Just look around, keep an open mind. Read reviews in audio magazines, remain objective, learn about the technology as best you can, remain objective, audition, remain objective, audition, audition, audition.

Oh, Dr G makes a good point about room acoustics. Put $100k speakers in a crappy room and they will sound like crap.

 

I forgot to mention that Julian Hirsch, long time equipment reviewer for Stereo Review and other magazine, passed away not more than 2 weeks ago. He did a lot to objective-ize the subjective world of audio.

Here's a link:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=521&page_number=1

Anyway, thought you (those who are interested in audio enough to view this thread) would like to know.

 

forgot to mention that Julian Hirsch, long time equipment reviewer for Stereo Review and other magazine, passed away not more than 2 weeks ago. He did a lot to objective-ize the subjective world of audio.

I read gobs of his reviews....I'm getting old! One of his reviews on the ESS AMT 1B's made me go out and listen and those were the first speakers that I bought when I got out of college.

Speaking of audio titans who have recently passed away....Henry Kloss. If you're interested in a sub-sat system, Cambridge Soundworks are killin' for the money.

 

Frankly, knowing what I know now about audio and acoustics and all that jazz, I don't see the point in spending a lot of money for audio equipment.

Give the man a coco-nut, this is as succinct a summary of the purpose of "High End Audio" as I have ever read.

A fool and his money are soon parted

 

You know of Thunder Bob? He has a good page of Fractal Art, too. I'll find a link.

My first encounter with Voice of the Theater spkrs... I was in college, and walked into the band building. Walking down the hall near the band rehearsal room I could hear what I thought was live orchestra. I thought, that is odd, the "wire band" usually rehearses on stage in the auditorium. Why are they in the band room?

It was the excerpt of 1812 Overture that I knew it was not real orchestra, as we had no cannons.

I looked in the door, and it was the asst director with about 15 students giving a music appeciation class. Those huge speakers were blasting away at live levels.

After the class I go in to check out the gear... a nice Garard turntable, and a tiny 10 wt/ch amp were powering the pair of Voice of the Theatre spkrs. They were on castors, and had been rolled over from the auditorium. These were used for movies, and PA work there. I was amazed at the clarity, fidelity, and efficiency of these wonderful spkrs. Hey, they fooled my ears into thinking a real orchestra was playing.

That was my first encounter with pro horn type spkrs and I was hooked. From that day on, mere acoustic suspension "bookshelf" spkrs just did not satisfy me.

I have also had some large 6 cubic ft cabinets, slotted ports, with a 15" Pyle pro audio woofer, and Electrovoice horn lens and driver, with response solid and flat down to 35 hz. These rocked, but they did not fit the decor of the living room and had to go. Nice thing about these, you put on a CD of say, a jazz combo, and the piano sounded like a real piano, the drums sounded real, as did the bass. You could hear the zip of the players fingers on the strings, and not just the cymbals, but the actual tap of the stick on the cymbals. Close your eyes, you thought you had a live combo in the living room. THAT is what we are after with our gear.

Like cars, there ain't no substitute for cubic inches except more cubic inches. With spkrs, mo' bigger is mo' better if you want real bass... not boomy imitation bass, but real bass.

 

Paul, my Ph.D. advisor in graduate school would always say, "When it comes to bass it's all about surface area and power. There are no substitutions." Talk about someone who knew his audio and signal processing.

I went to see funk master George Clinton two years ago and you know as well as I do that funk is all about bass and these people knew how to reproduce their bass. There were twelve (12) fifteen inch (15") drivers...for EACH CHANNEL!!! Yes, they brought those with them. Talk about clean bass filling that hall. I'll never forget it. So when you see these tiny super high power subwoofer cubes made by Carver, Velodyne and others, stay away from them (they try to compensate for the lack of surface area by cranking the power). They may play loud but they won't be clean. Size does matter when it comes to bass. Of course there's room acoustics to consider but that's a topic for another day.

 

Red Rose Music

One of the best set ups I've heard in a while was at the Red Rose Music showroom in Manhattan. Red Rose is Mark Levinson's new company. The companywith his namesake was sold many years ago. Most of his equipment is small great sounding amps and speakers. I like his idea that it doesn't have to take up lots of space to create good sound. I was amazed by the sound of the system I heard. It consisted of Sony SACD player (DVP900ES) running through the Red Rose two way bookshelf style speakers driven by his integrated amplifier. I've had high end audio GAS for years, owned Magneplanars, Acoustats, Fuseliers, tube amps, Threshold amps etc. This little system beats them and took up so little space my wife would like it. Check out Red Rose music. Levinson's a pretty good bass player in his own right and knows what live music sounds like. By the way if you haven't checked out SACD's you're really missing something.

 

OK, I'm due for an SACD player. Anyone have recommendations or experiences they'd care to share? I'd prefer a 5-disc changer unless you have compelling reasons against them.

Larry mentioned the Sony DVP900ES. SaxyA ref'd a Pioneer (no model named). I have a many-year old Sony CD changer that is starting to misbehave - can't find the starting track sometimes without reopening and shutting the carriage. I don't need the super audiophile single crystal models - just something that sounds good in my living room. 8)

Happy holidays!

 

Hi Dr G. The Pioneer unit I was referring to is the DV-563A. It's a fine player and can be had for very little, around $175. I have a Sony 5-disc SACD player that isn't being sold anymore. Managed to get that a couple years back for less than $200. :wink:

As for the higher resolution formats, I'm still debating whether or not SACD and DVD-Audio are "clearly" better. There are times when I feel as though I'm hearing more detail in certain passages sure but I don't know if that feeling is due to any bias I may have towards the new formats. To be honest as a serious musician I am more into the music making than the audio making although a good recording definitely enhances the enjoyment of the music making.

 

Thanks.