No problem, octave keys generally require a bit of lost motion.

I'd also look into what would be required to add braces to the neck. I don't like a flexible flyer neck. I've added bracing to more than one.

 

My 1972 Super 20 tenor has just been partially serviced. Unfortunately, there’s one little wrinkle with the octave mechanism now that everything has been regulated.

The silver neck on my S20 has a lot of «flex» or spring compared to other tenors I have tried. The neck will flex downwards even with very little pressure during normal playing. I therefore want to (re-)introduce some lost motion in the underslung octave key, to stop the flex from partially opening the octave key.

Will it be possible to deform the nickel silver key somewhat safely using moderate pressure while it is still attached to the horn?

I agree that some free space is useful in the octave mechanism.

That aside, why is the source of the neck flex? Is it due to poor fit of the tenon or is the neck tube starting to fail at the joint to the tenon?

If all is well at the tenon, then an additional neck brace may be in order as turf3 suggests.

 

The joint is fine, it fits like a glove, no wobble. This is the neck itself flexing - like a spring. Not much, mind you, a couple of mm, but that’s enough when the octave lever rod is touching the underslung mechanism at rest, and the key has a cork that’s just resting on the neck pip. The slightest deviation lifts the key “cup” slightly off the pip.

The neck much less rigid than other tenors I have tried; the built-in braces seem more ornamental than functional, and the material and geometry seem to contribute to the springiness.

 

The joint is fine, it fits like a glove, no wobble. This is the neck itself flexing - like a spring. Not much, mind you, a couple of mm, but that’s enough when the octave lever rod is touching the underslung mechanism at rest, and the key has a cork that’s just resting on the neck pip. The slightest deviation lifts the key “cup” slightly off the pip.

The neck much less rigid than other tenors I have tried; the built-in braces seem more ornamental than functional, and the material and geometry seem to contribute to the springiness.

Hmm, I had an earlier Super 20 with no such issues. OK. I agree that a setup should not be overly sensitive regarding the octave touch.

Yes, I'd add some "lost motion" in the octave key and consider going to a leather pad.

Have you tried rotating the neck to see if it is more forgiving in another position? I wonder if someone else set it up for a different playing angle.

 

Even a Silver neck should not flex. I've owned 3 super 20's and the necks were as rigid as brass.

 

Yes, it makes me wonder whether the neck was pulled down then restored.

 

Could very well have had a moderate pull down in its past, for all I know. If so, the repair job has been pretty stellar, to my untrained eye. No clearly visible ridges or deformities. The soldering on the attached brass braces (top and bottom) could possibly have been redone.

It’s definitely a “player’s horn”, no closet queen. It’s been around. Plays well, sounds good.

Looking at the geometry of the neck, though, it makes some sense to me that it would be slightly less unyielding than some of the bulkier horns with more substantial braces and possibly thicker brass walls. It does not deform, there’s just a very slight spring action if I’m not consistently mindful about the weight of my big old head on the bite plate…

 

Thank you all for the good feedback so far, very helpful!
I’ll experiment with crazy angles.

Hupefully I’ll be able to bend the nickel silver just slightly to get a few mm of clearance, all without breaking the key straight off or stressing the hinge and soldering too much.

 

Comparing the image of your neck with one at getasax.com:

https://www.getasax.com/product/king-super-20-tenor-saxophone-1968-original-lacquer-439538/

Note how the edge of the cork in the getasax photo stays outside of the plane of sideways continuation (shown in green) of the tenon ring. Entire neck stays above that plane when the saxophone is played in normal position.

In comparison, the silver neck droops below the plane of sideways continuation of the tenon ring. That, together with the distortion lines visible on the crook, indicates to me that the silver neck is pulled down.

 

Comparing the image of your neck with one at getasax.com:
<image snipped>

Note how the edge of the cork in the getasax photo stays outside of the plane of sideways continuation (shown in green) of the tenon ring. Entire neck stays above that plane when the saxophone is played in normal position.

In comparison, the silver neck droops below the plane of sideways continuation of the tenon ring. That, together with the distortion lines visible on the crook, indicates to me that the silver neck is pulled down.

View attachment 217534

Thanks, but I’m not so sure these photos are that conclusive. Both of them (mine in particular) are taken at an angle, and measurements on that basis, using the tenon as a guide, is not trivial.

As I said, I do not know the full history of the instrument, but to me as a layman there’s no obvious evidence of pull down when examining the neck.

I took a new photo of just the neck, straight on, with a flash, and with a piece of cardboard with a straight edge as a visual aid. Not so damning anymore at this angle, I hope. 😉

 

The silver neck shows a bad brace design. There's a big piece of sheet brass that runs under the neck AND STOPS JUST SHORT OF THE TENON.

So, all the bending moment on the neck is concentrated on the thin walled silver tube right there between the end of the brace and the tenon.

My opinion - but I'd have to have the neck in hand to be certain - is that extending the upper brace strip all the way to the tenon and making a nice tight joint to the tenon; and extending the lower brace all the way to the tenon and making a nice tight joint to the tenon; would probably be a BIG help in protecting this neck from damage.

And it may well be that the neck needs a bit of pull-down correction as well. It's tough to judge that from photos taken close up and at oblique angles.

 

Hard to tell from these pictures but, the neck could be flexing at the point where the neck is soldered into the tenon. This could be lighting but, there seems to be a line of discoloration just above the tenon on the silver that makes me think the neck is at a more acute angle than it should be at that joint.

 

Hupefully I’ll be able to bend the nickel silver just slightly to get a few mm of clearance, all without breaking the key straight off or stressing the hinge and soldering too much.

A few millimeters is a lot...
What is the distance right now at rest?

In the first photo it looks like maybe the sleeve over the linkage rod is pretty thick, plus there is maybe another sleeve under it. It's not clear enough to be sure, but in that case you could simply replace the sleeve with something thinner. It might be more noisy but it's a safer option if you're worried about trying to adjust the key itself.

Comparing the image of your neck with one at getasax.com

That's not really possible to compare with photos taken at different angles, lens distortion, etc.

 

A few millimeters is a lot...
What is the distance right now at rest?

That would be zero. They are touching at rest. No lost motion, which is the problem.

 

I have a single socket Silver Sonic that once had the same problem. The large brace on the underside of the neck had a small crack that was almost invisible. I even bought another silver neck from King back when they were still being made. The new neck was terrific and solved the problem.
Years later I sent the original neck to a specialist who removed the (soft soldered) brace, cleaned off all of the old solder, brazed (hard soldered) the Crack, and soft soldered the brace and octave mechanism back onto the neck.
It took a while to get the neck back, and the repair wasn't cheap, but it solved the problem.