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Favorite clarinet for jazz?

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63K views 130 replies 37 participants last post by  Dave Dolson  
#4 ·
Any clarinet that plays well can be used for jazz, especially so-called "Dixieland". I say so-called because us purists much prefer the phrase "traditional jazz".

I play clarinet as a secondary instrument to soprano saxophone and alto saxophone, primarily soprano. But there are a bunch of tunes where I feature clarinet. I do not amplify it, either (believing that anything amplified just overbalances the ensemble). Bandmommy is right when she cautions that the audience hears us much better than we do. I've been in the audience many times.

My primary clarinet is a Buffet RC Prestige Bb soprano Boehm System. I use a Claude Lakey 5* mouthpiece, Fibracell 1 1/2 Premier synthetic reed, and a standard metal two-screw ligature. I have other clarinets, too, that I've used from time to time, but the Buffet is #1 for me. DAVE
 
#29 ·
I have one of those Silver Kings (with two barrels . . . 440 and 443) and I've played it in the band. The audience seemed to like it, but I didn't think it came close to my Buffet RC Prestige. Of course, I haven't found a clarinet yet that had the power and tone of my Buffet. But we all differ, for sure.

Also, +1 for the Lakey 5*, my current mouthpiece-of-choice. Used to use a Vandoren 66, Vandoren 5JB, Vandoren B45, Rovner 5, and a Selmer HS**, too. But the Lakey 5* is working great for me these days.

Love that trad sound from the '40's to '60's . . . George Lewis has always been a favorite of mine. Not polished but full of soul. We sometimes play BURGUNDY STRRET BLUES (just me and the piano). Great stuff. DAVE
 
#42 ·
Nitai: I looked a long time on the Internet before finding a bore-diameter chart, which I linked in another thread. They measured the internal diameter at the bottom of the upper joint, claiming that was THE SPOT where such measurements should be taken. But I recall they also included a smattering of measurements taken at the top of the upper joint, too.

I also recall WW&BW's past catalogues where they listed various clarinets' bore sizes, but they were not specific as to what those measurements really meant or from where they were taken.

So, I did likewise on my own #1 clarinet and found my measurements were not consistent with those on the chart for my model. But the chart's measurements weren't consistent either among similar models. I'm concluding that even the manufacturers don't follow their own stated measurements and that they find it acceptable to come within a few hundredths of an inch in the manufacturing process. If that is true, the whole concept of large-bore vs. small bore takes a decided back seat to other issues in how a clarinet plays. I see bore-size a real NON-issue. DAVE
 
#44 ·
Oh, I can bicker about the continuing use and beliefs in the common myths . . . bore size (when no one really knows and just goes on the word of some music-stiore commando), the finishes issues (black-lacquered saxophones are "darker"), I know you'll love this mouthpiece because I love it, no one played soprano before John Coltrane . . . it goes on and on. And I'll right there! DAVE
 
#46 ·
I don't like the safeties on both sides of the pistol - makes for more bulk and it is useless for me. Tritium may work but it degrades over time. I have one of those laser-grip things on one J-Frame, but frankly I just as well depend on hand position and natural pointing when in low-light.

Oops, we drifted this thread!!! DAVE
 
#48 ·
Someone posted that once . . . and some one else posted that it wasn't until Grover Washington that the soprano was introduced to jazz.

In case you miss-read me, I made that comment about Coltrane as an example of the continuing myths circulating among players and enthusiasts. Like so many things, if anything happened before one's birth, then it didn't happen. DAVE
 
#55 ·
Dr G: Agree. But the effectiveness of the batteries in the laser-grip doesn't mean the shooter can no longer aim and fire. I'm betting that in a panic, the shooter would fail to depress the button half the time anyway. Sight-alignment and trigger squeeze - the important factors. DAVE
 
#58 ·
Nitai: No, I didn't read into your post. I'm just commenting generally about the whole bore-size issue . . . the comments that keep coming daily about bore-size when most posters don't have a clue as to their particular measurements other than what they've been told OR what they guessed by the way their instrument play. Big sound? Why, it must be because it has a big bore! It is the continuing myth much like finishes, and I intend to challenge those claims every time I read them. Boring to some? Maybe, but it just trips my trigger. I agree that one should play the thing before buying and disregard any claims of bore size.

DD - that isn't exactly what I told those who made such idiotic claims but I (and others) made it clear that Bechet (and others) were way out front on the soprano-in-jazz leadership. DAVE
 
#60 ·
I don't know what to say about the altissimo notes being flat. That isn't the case for me, but I don't usually play that high (on clarinet or soprano sax). When I do, I struggle with them but can hit 'em in pitch. I suppose a harder reed may help, but my Lakey 5* with 1 1/2 strength Fibracells is SO rich and resonant everywhere else that I don't think I'd give that up to hit a few notes up there. Of course, I am not reading charts and I only improvise, so I can choose where to go on the thing. DAVE
 
#65 ·
KM: So-called Dixieland is all I play, but no charts - all by ear. There are a few tunes where I gotta go up there (e.g., PERDIDO STREET BLUES, CANAL STREET BLUES if I want to come close to what Johnny Dodds did in the '20's). My Lakeys can handle it.

I have adjusted Fibracells -I use fine-grit sand paper with the reed flat on my work-bench, taking more out of the heart of the vamp than the edges. Then, I wash the reed before playing it. It actually works!

I've found Fibracells to be pretty consistent (more so than cane) but there still are variables and not every Premier 1 1/2 plays the same. True, they feel MUCH more substantial than do cane reeds with similar strength ratings.

Claude Lakey told me once that his clarinet mouthpieces were tuned to A-443. When you hold one up to other standard clarinet pieces, you can see where the Lakey is a bit shorter. It should play in tune from top to bottom (at least not flat), assuming you are in a typical band environment where I've found many stage pianos to be a bit sharp.

My preferred clarinet is a Buffet RC Prestige Boehm that in many comparisons to other Buffets and other marques consistently sounded better and played better for me. I also use a Lakey 5* on my permanently set up Buffet E-11, a Silver King, a Yamaha YCL 457 (German System) and an old Conn Albert Hard-rubber clarinet. I used to have an older R13 which took the Lakey nicely, but that clarinet is now with my daughter. The point being that the Lakey's work for me on a variety of clarinets. The last time I played Selmer clarinets was in 1985 when I tested a bunch before buying the RC Prestige.

You may want to try some cane reeds - I have Vandorens (Java and ZZ) in #2, that play very nicely on my Lakey pieces. I keep them in the case just in case the Fibracells go south on me (which happened once mid-tune). Once the Fibracell packs it in, toss it. DAVE
 
#110 ·
Hornlip: I play trad jazz (mostly soprano saxophone, but some clarinet for those tunes that really call out for clarinet) and I NEVER amplify.

I have three Lakey 5* clarinet mouthpieces that I bought personally from Claude himself - he even marked one "5*D" for me. But I rarely played them because I couldn't find a reed that worked well for me. That is until I discovered that Fibracell 1 1/2's worked PERFECTLY for me on the Lakeys.

Another benefit for me at least, was that Claude made his pieces a tad shorter (he told me he made them to play A=443) and I can easily come to pitch with a properly tuned piano. I know, I know . . . I am not a trained clarinetist and that's the way it is for me.

I also have a couple of really open clarinet pieces (two Vandoren 5JB's and a Meyer 66) that play very easily with soft cane reeds, but I then must use a shorter barrel to come to normal pitch.

I realize that mouthpiece recommendations are usually useless for someone else, but that's been MY experience with Lakeys. DAVE
 
#113 ·
I've never measured mouthpieces and any reference I make to tip openings comes from either the common charts or actual measurements someone else took on MY mouthpieces (e.g., Joe Giardullo measured one of my soprano saxophone pieces and made one of his for me). But I can say ALMOST positively that those two clarinet pieces I mentioned (the 5JB and the Meyer 66) have larger tip-openings - I know that because when I play cane reeds on them, only the softest ones work for me. The Fibracell 1 1/2 works for me on the Lakeys because Fibracells play a LOT stronger for me than do cane reeds of similar strength-markings.

Trying to sound like Sidney? Good luck with that . . . many have tried, very few come close. There are a couple of French clarinetists I've heard that came pretty close - but it was more style than tone. There was only one Bechet-clarinet in my view. A goal to strive for, but . . .

And, I never did learn anything about Bechet's set-up. But that really is unimportant because we all know that if any of us played Bechet's set-up, we still wouldn't sound like him. THAT comes from the player, not the set-up.

Shoot me a PM and maybe we can work out something - I have two of those 5JB pieces. A while back, a guy who used to post on SOTW got together with me for some mouthpiece/horn trials and he ended up searching for a Meyer 66 - I don't think those are made any more. He came up with one, as I recall, as well as a 55. I've seen them occasionally on eBay but not in any stores. I have no idea what those numbers mean, either. DAVE
 
#119 ·
About Albert vs. Boehm clarinets being required to achieve a certain sound. This subject has been bandied about for years. I realize some buy into it but I don't. They are all clarinets and I strongly believe that it is the player's technique that makes for that tone we hear coming from the noted New Orleans' style Albert players.

When one listens closely to all of those terrific New Orleans' style Albert players, there is as much tonal variance among them as there is with Boehm players. I have always owned both systems, including the more "sophisticated" Oehler (German) clarinets (Alberts with additional venting to enhance intonation) and I've played them side-by-side on many occasions. No tonal differences except for the normal variances anyone would hear when playing two clarinets side by side. DAVE
 
#122 ·
I just did a side-by-side set of measurements using a caliper, comparing my Conn hard-rubber Albert Bb soprano clarinet and my Buffet E-11 (the German-made E-11) Boehm Bb soprano clarinet. I measured the six tone holes on the tube (where your fingers automatically fall). Five of the six tone holes on the Boehm were bigger than those on the Albert.

I then got out my Yamaha YCL-457-20, a German System Bb soprano clarinet (Oehler), and measured the three tones holes on the right-hand joint. The tone holes on the Yamaha varied compared to the old Albert and the new Boehm. Some were bigger, some were smaller (I've forgotten which ones) and all were within a few thousandths of each other.

Among the three horns, there were differences and I'd need to prepare a matrix to make any definitive conclusions, but I don't see anything to support the claim that Albert's and German System's tone holes are different from Boehm's. The variances were only a few thousandths of an inch either way and could be just as easily attributed to manufacturing tolerances as deliberate design. But, I will agree that a few thousandths of an inch can make a difference and that, in my opinion, is why every horn plays differently than the next.

Finally, if you'd listen to me playing you probably wouldn't be able to tell whether it was an Albert, German-System, or a Boehm, especially when I'm playing my Buffet RC Prestige, a particularly resonant Boehm clarinet. DAVE
 
#123 ·
Hornlip: I am not a mouthpiece expert. I only know what works for me. But I can't believe that a Brilhart clarinet piece was made specifically to give big-band players more volume. Oh, that may be true, I just don't know. However, when I listen to the recordings of the clarinetists from the 1920's (mainly Johnny Dodds, but others, too; and I've played with some of the really great trad clarinetists), I hear plenty of volume. And yes, in the acoustic recording days, they did move the clarinet closer to the recording mic, etc. But still, those guys really blew, long before the big bands.

I think a lot of the volume issues come from the player and finding a reed that matches his embouchure and his mouthpiece. A good, strong clarinet helps - I've had some that were inherently weaker than others.

Once those things fall into place, the clarinet will put out the power. I've also come to the conclusion that a good clarinetist knows where to play in the ensemble - play the role correctly and the horn will be heard. Try to double the alto/tenor/soprano, or the trumpets, and surely even the better clarinetists will be overwhelmed. DAVE
 
#125 ·
I actually paid a well-known clarinet repair-guy to do a complete overhaul on my Conn HR Albert. It turned out to play pretty good - MUCH better than the brand new Yamaha German System I recently purchased (from The Netherlands - Yamaha doesn't sell them in the U.S.).

I've had a variety of Alberts over my time dabbling with clarinets but I guess I'm just not cut out to play them seriously. I can't get over the huge right-hand finger spread required to cover the tone holes - and the different fingerings screw up my engrained phrasing when I get going on them. I have a C-soprano Albert and that is much easier because the right-hand spread isn't as big as on the Bb sopranos.

Sure, one can train oneself to play the things (I know a couple of local guys who are fabulous simple-system players) but I struggle enough with saxophone and at my age, I'm not going to put in the time it takes to do the muscle-memory training, etc. My Boehms work just fine for me.

I really can't say if Brilhart had saxophone doublers in mind when he designed his clarinet pieces. I met him once at a gig I was playing - he stopped in to hear the band and introduced himself. But all of the SOTW issues we think are important now didn't cross my mind then, so I didn't know to ask him such a question. Wish I had done so. Guys like that were a wealth of knowledge. I play his alto mouthpiece (an Ebolin 3*). DAVE
 
#131 ·
Talking about Yamaha clarinets, I played last February for a weekend with a superb trad/swing clarinetist in Kalispell, Montana. He played a Yamaha clarinet he's had for many years. I don't recall the exact model but it was supposedly the top of the Yamaha line when he bought it. And could this guy put out the volume!!! Once I stood right in front of him and I could hear and feel the strength and volume coming out of the left-hand tone holes! I'd never heard that before.

Plus, he said his mouthpiece was the stock Yamaha mouthpiece that came with the horn. I have to assume it was a 4C. He said he went back to the stock piece after he accidentally damaged his favorite clarinet mouthpiece and couldn't replace it, yet he needed to play the thing immediately.

After that weekend, I tested a couple of new Yamaha top-line clarinets (two different ones at different locations) - I think they were something like a CSV or something similar. Anyway, I was impressed with them. The price was around $3000. I already have a terrific Buffet RC Prestige or I probably would have popped for the Yamaha. DAVE
 
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