Do they?
Anyhow...apparently they sound better. Just how much is probably in the ear of the player rather than the audience, but if it helps (even just mentally), why not?
(waits for a wooden sphere bored and reamed accordingly, that'll teach them...)

(I meant to comment only on outer shape, not inner values...)

 

Do they?

(I meant to comment only on outer shape, not inner values...)

Hi Ben
do the fat boy have the same inner diameters as the normal barrels or do the open out then close down again, if they have the same inner diameter then would that really made a big difference to the sound. or is it like you said, in the players ear when the play!

 

All I can say is that the outer shape doesn't have any inherent relation with shape of the (inner) bore. Whether the bore is tapered, straight, reverse, hourglassy, barrely, ovoid or whatnot doesn't have anything to do with how it looks from the outside. You can have endless discussions about barrel material as much as about shape - some will claim it will greatly improve your sound while others don't notice such subtleties. As long as the dimensions are correct, I'd say it's mostly a matter of personal preference.

(even the best barrel won't improve your dexterity. 1/32nd notes continue to be 1/32nd notes...)

 

Are you referring to the backun fatboy barrels? It really depends more on you and the clarinet you have. There are hundreds if not thousands of different kind mouthpieces out there. Barrels choices are more limited, but you basically choose the one that fits the playstyle that you want and the sound that you want. I actually prefer the moba barrels over the fatboy, because it works better for me. Yes, a nicer barrel can help improve your intonation and sound quality, but like tictactux said, it still mainly depends on the player. You can have richard stolzman's but that doesn't mean you will play like him.

 

thanks guys. I get what your saying. don't worry about barrels till your quality of playing is near to pro quality and then and only then look at things like barrels, when your ear can detect the difference.
I'm still a early student even though I'm 60.

 

when you look at most pro players they have fat boy type barrels..

In that small segment of the clarinet population that moves from latest and greatest to greatest and latest- the in-the-know style d'jour- this might be true. Most of those are enthusiastic hobbyists who might also gig part time.

I haven't seen fat boy barrel domination elsewhere in the professional population (I take that to primarily be professional symphonic/ chamber musicians) or as a overwhelming trend among the dedicated clarinet players who simply play rather than obsess over equipment. That doesn't mean that it might not be so of course. What do you base your assertion upon?

 

That doesn't mean that it might not be so of course. What do you base your assertion upon?

mostly with what I have seen on you tube, and yes mostly symphonic musicians. they mostly (not all) have the bigger barrel on there clarinet, I just wondered why!
have only been playing the clarinet a few months so do not know that much about clarinet, that why I'm on here to learn more with help of guys like yourself.
played sax for years and bass guitar and keyboards and organ since the 60s.

 

Apparently, the extra mass of the Fat Boys has an effect on intonation because of heat dispersion.
They don't heat up as quickly so they don't go sharp when you play longer and they retain their heat longer so they don't go flat during break.

 

That sounds like marketing mumbo-jumbo to me.

1. Any swelling of the timber from heat is utterly minute and irrelevant to intonation, compared with other factors, especially...
2. The pitch of a note is related to the temperature of the air column, not the timber. A clarinetist is pushing enough air through a barrel, and that air is close enough to the source of the air's warmth, for that air temperature to rise to close to breath temperature quite quickly, irrespective of how cold the outside air or timber might be. (That is not the case for air temperature further down the instrument. Especially when playing pp the air is pretty cooled down in a cold environment by the time it gets there.)

Dare I suggest that it is the bore inside a barrel that is relevant. There is plenty of evidence that the material of the barrel, as long it reaches a sufficient minimum degree of rigidity, is irrelevant, other than the internal surface texture.

There is a fashion for not using metal reinforcing rings at the ends of a barrel. This may account for extra bulk of timber employed for strength.

Other than that, for a specialist barrel maker, there is a huge marketing advantage if people can immediately see a point of difference that is rather unique to that maker. So there is incentive to make the barrel conspicuously different - different exterior shape or colour/timber. IMO the exterior shape of these barrels is almost entirely about that.

And regards the hallowing of certain barrels...

There are huge fashion elements at work in the musical instrument marketing business, especially for the items that can more readily be changed - a flute stopper, a flute crown, reeds, ligatures, mouthpieces and now barrels.

A few decades ago, if you did not play on a crystal mouthpiece you were almost looked down upon by other players. Real players played on crystal! Nowadays we would struggle to find somebody playing on crystal. The fad changed to certain ligatures, and now certain barrels.

All of little consequence, because it is just one man's perspective.

Just play; stop obsessing! There are plenty of incredibly great players playing on barrels that are not ugly, clumsy, discoloured, and un-reinforced.

 

leblanc is endorsing a lot of new clarinetist that you often seen on youtube, mb thats another reason why there is an influx of backun

 

LeBlanc, and its association with Bakun (severed as I understand it, though I could easily be mistaken), pushed hard on the fat boy barrels with a pretty substantial amount of advertising to include You-Tube performance. There are quite a few look alikes; clarinet barrels require a wood lather and wood to turn out. Surely quality barrels require close tolerances and knowledge- but it's awfully easy to turn out something that's close enough to in the ball park to be indistinguishable to any double blind test with an audience... and perhaps with a player as well.

Having shoe boxes full of barrels I'm hardly in a position to diss barrel-mania but while I revel in this and that specimen I've always suspected deep in my secret heart that I probably sound about the same with a resotone as an R13 or Selmer Signature- though behind the mouthpiece I revel in the psychological charge and unquantifiable "feel". Post after post after post on this and similar subjects of course.

Anyway, my own take is that- Recitals, Cannonball lathe-run-amok specials, and assorted fat boys aside- the majority still probably play on the Buffet/Selmer/ generic standard shaped barrels with perfect equanimity. Though LeBlanc copywriters might writhe at the saying; "Ignorance is <still> Bliss"- and sometimes the staid, plain Jane, stick in the mud, been that way for six score plus years, musical instrument component really does work OK as is for most folks.

 

I went to a MOBA because I was looking for a shorter barrel. I found my face getting looser, and it was keeping me in a perpetual state of flatness. A shorter barrel would fix the problem, so I started looking around. I settled on Backun based on quality and price ( buying scratch and dent direct from backun is the way to go).

I found my intonation and response was improved. A blind test with my wife indicated that she could tell the difference between barrels, but that's not always the case. But as others have said, it works for me, and that's what counts.

 

Some people put anything on their clarinets if some 'Pro in the Know' says it's going to improve their playing by leaps and bounds.
Personally, I have a tendancy to say bullcrap.
I've played many brands of clarinets with the original 'stock' barrels and have had no issues with intonation or tone quality.
Only once have I had to go with a 'shorter than normal' barrel. I played a show where the piano that they INSISTED on using was tuned ungodly sharp. I had to put the barrel from my high pitch Buffet albert system on my Selmer Signature to get it even close to being in tune.
I'm not a 'Pro in the Know' or a 'professional' clarinetist in any sense of the word so my lack of title may mean that my thinking is bullcrap.

 

I'm not a 'Pro in the Know' or a 'professional' clarinetist in any sense of the word so my lack of title may mean that my thinking is bullcrap.

No, I figure you to be someone who puts more effort into playing and takes their pleasure in that playing from the music than others who take pleasure both from the music of course but also from the feeling that they've got "something special which gives them a special instrument". In cars that may be a wing on the trunk which has no effect under 100MPH, in watches a water proof certification to 1000 meters under the sea, in clarinets it might be a fatboy barrel.

The fatboys might work just fine as clarinet barrels. Many testify that they do and I see no reason to believe they don't perform on a par with other decent pieces. There are a lot of non fatboy designs out there which also work just fine. Some of these are "custom" designs with assorted esoteric design features. Cannonball has a line up which looks like they raided a table leg store. Most are the stock barrels from major manufacturers- Selmer, Buffet, et al - which externally by and large follow a centuries old profile and probably constitute the preponderance of seriously played barrels.

Just because it's traditional doesn't of course, mean it's the best- but it also doesn't mean that it's automatically yesterday's technology, no longer works, and needs to be new and improved. It may well be- through centuries of evolution- pretty much just about right for a clarinet.

Selmer, in their Recital line, certainly has a distinctive profile which they assert has an effect. Yamaha asserts that the plating on the key work affects the sound of their clarinets. Darned if I have any authoritative data on either, though I have a not so hard to discern private opinion.

It may also be that any real differences are internal to the barrel in the bore shaping, not external. Even those internal differences are, by and large, matters of preference and as with so many design features, apparent (seemingly) to some players but not at all to audiences.

On your closing phrase... I hadn't thought so myself- but I surely don't want to argue with you!!!

You could easily come up with a much less flattering consensus on my thinking!!

 

I've been trying to be more polite?
Some of us are just of the mind set that 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'. Sure, if I had the time and necessary funds I would like to try every 'new and improved' aftermarket bell and barrel out there. I doubt that I would find that any of them 'improve' my sound enough to warrent the expenditure, nor do I have the need to 'impress' anyone by having the latest and greatest newfangled doodad by 'Blahblahblah' the clarinet guru.
I have excellent playing instruments. If something about them 'sucks' it's because I haven't been doing my job and putting in the necessary practice time.
Now, if a player thinks that the newfangled doodad makes a difference in their sound that's great. Anything to boost the confidence level and make practicing more enjoyable. I my case..... I'd much rather wear out reeds perfecting my sound.

Everyone has poopy thinking once in a while. Nothing wrong with that either. It's how we learn.

 

I have been reading along, I have a barrel question to pose then. If it is said that the barrel does not affect intonatoin or "sound" and that the factory barrels are perfect why does buffet offer Moening and Chadash barrels? Ridenour offer his Ivorolon barrels.

 

Perhaps you have been reading but not understanding;

1. The length of the barrel most certainly makes a difference. Nobody would dispute that.
2. The shaping of the bore of the barrel does make a difference, hence the slight constrictions and tapers in designer barrels. I doubt many would dispute that.
3. The surface texture inside can make a difference, possibly mainly to tone.
4. The shaping of the outside is unlikely to make any difference whatsoever. It is a vibrating air column that makes the sound. The timber is merely a container that needs to provide a certain degree of rigidity.
5. Any claims that the extra thickness of timber has some effect on the temperature of the air column or its stability, is BS.
6. The temperature of a wooden barrel is unlikely to have any discernable effect on intonation.
7. The external shape and appearance is great for establishing a point of difference to highlight and advertise to every sucker who sees it. And it makes sponsoring a high-profile user very effective advertising!
8. Any lack of metal reinforcing rings at the ends is certain to make the barrel more prone to splitting.

 

Gordon, is a smooth bore preferable to an unsanded, somewhat rough bore? I do notice a slightly difference in tone between a stock barrel and certain aftermarket barrels on my CT, not to mention that the flatness in the throat Bb issnot as bad. And, putting a wooden Selmer barrel on my 1937 PanAm HR clarinet makes a huge difference when I use it in outdoor concerts.

 

I think the overall message was yes, theres differences between different barrels, but we shouldnt be affected by brand name and endorsement because to create the best quality of sound, one just needs to practice.

 

"to create the best quality of sound, one just needs to practice." So true!

As seems to have been highlighted by another fad of yesteryear, the Accubore barrel, God's gift to almost everybody at the time... the perception of difference to the player may actually not transpose to a difference to the audience. But maybe it is the player (and his imagination!) that matters most?

Regarding smoothness of bore being better or worse. I suppose that is in the player's perception too. I doubt there is a consensus in that. But smooth and polished looks nicer, so people will assume it is. Somebody with more acoustic expertise can explain the difference in relative volume of partials (i.e. tone) and resistance (response?) that it might make.

 

"to create the best quality of sound, one just needs to practice." So true!...

But maybe it is the player (and his imagination!) that matters most?

Regarding smoothness of bore being better or worse. I suppose that is in the player's perception too. I doubt there is a consensus in that. But smooth and polished looks nicer, so people will assume it is...

Quick- everybody run out and snatch up the old one piece metal clarinets. Unrivaled smoothness of bore inherent to the construction- MUST be ... practically a secret weapon clarinet!

 

That reminds me...
I was once a member of the first symphony orchestra to visit Fiji. At customs they treated the woodwind instruments as very suspicious weapons.

Which reminds me, in some of my more bored moments in amateur pit playing I would get an old-type, aluminium-foil milk bottle top and mould it into the end of my flute (less head), to a bullet shape. Then I'd finger the lowest note and blow into the end. That bullet fired very successfully to the other end of the pit. Hehe!

Another amusement was to pass a note to half way across the pit. I'd put the note under the piccolo's Eb pad, plug the piccolo into the foot of the flute, and plug the flute into the end of the alto flute. With a reached out arm, that gives about 3 metres of reach.

 

From an Asian site, I bought a 51 mm fatboy barrel specially cut to length for my old C clarinet which is just perfect for it, especially for only $20. The pitch is great. However, I found that it is noticeably heavier than the 50 mm barrel I used to use and kind of changes the balance of the instrument.