If your mouthpiece is well matched to your horn, you won't have those issues to the degree that you have, when it isn't. This is hugely important. There is really nothing like it. Then, I get improved tonal consistency by replacing the bore obstructing pips with non-protruding pips, and correcting the cylindrical tenon bore error. You will get much more out of your practicing when the horn is acoustically as perfect as it can be.

That said, one still needs alternate fingerings too.

 

If your mouthpiece is well matched to your horn, you won't have those issues to the degree that you have, when it isn't. This is hugely important. There is really nothing like it.

Short of buying dozens of mouthpieces and hoping for the best, or flying all over the country trying mouthpieces, are there any "matching" data I can access? Has anyone published such information anywhere? Or are there basic principles? e.g. Yanagisawa needs a large chamber, or Yamaha needs a Morgan?

 

As mentioned alternate fingers can make a big difference. C#2 & D2 have a major timbral difference. Try either using open C# & then palm key D or using a "long C#" (low C# w/ octave key, essentially blowing an overtone) with regular D.

Another exercise I like to do...

Pick your favorite note (speaking in terms of timbre) on your horn. Then try and match all other notes (in timbre) to that note. REALLY listen! Eventually, it will start to happen.

 

Tone matching via overtone/harmonic studies is one way to get you very much in the neighborhood of what you're shooting for: evenness throughout the horn, enhanced sound, etc. David Liebman's DVD on sound production is good on this; so is Trent Kynaston's Sax Intonation Workbook.

But to give you a great start on what it's all about, check out this thread:

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?85849-Opening-Up-Tone-on-Alto

and posts #2 and #14 especially... (Although the thread's title focuses on alto, this applies to all the saxes...)

 

I think I'm on the right track but just impatient. I'm doing gobs of the tone matching exercises, e. g., making F2 with standard fingering sound just like F2 played with low B-flat fingering, etc. When doing harmonics for a while everything seems to lock in, then when I go back to playing tunes or arpeggios or something it gradually falls apart so to speak. I need to figure out how to maintain what my embouchure is learning doing harmonics so that it stays that way during tunes, improv, etc. Rats! I know the answer. Practice!!

 

Out of interest Bill - what setup are you using now?

 

Yanagisawa T991 tenor
Jody Jazz HR* 6* mpc
Rovner EVO-5 ligature
Various reeds, but usually Rico Select 2M

 

Bill,

Can you post some links to mp3's of you playing some scales, thirds, melody, etc.?

Here's the thing to keep in mind. Even if your horn is known to work for most players with XYZ mouthpiece, accepting that combination, as-is, is equivalent to believing the rumor that the correct, absolutely universal cork placement for tuning to A=440, for any player using a Jody Jazz HR 6, on a Yani 991 tenor, is exactly 23.5mm, and nothing else, and leaving the mouthpiece there regardless of how sharp or flat you actually are.

Matching a mouthpiece to a horn involves adjusting TWO interactive parameters to each, their ONE respectively correct quantity, while changes in one affect the other to a different degree. Adjustments for correct alignment can not be made via mouthpiece placement. Unless the mouthpiece proportions are perfect for that one, unique, player/horn/reed combination, cork placement changes can only improve one to the detriment of the other. Most players settle for a compromise, with both being somewhat "off", and that may work to some degree, but just like focusing zoom optics, there is only one lens relationship where everything is crystal clear, and nothing else can compare.

 

i don't know if you should address this via a separate exercise. i am more of the opinion that it just settles itself over time.

1. you get accustomed to the sound of your horn
2. your sound gets better anyway the more you play
3. the difference you hear is very great because the distance from your ears to the sound source varies a lot proportionally when switching c#2/d2
4. the difference the audience hears from a certain distance is always smaller
5. there will always be a slight tonal difference, but as your sound matures, it really won't matter anymore. it will be part of the horn to the point that it also won't annoy you as a player, i am positive about that.

bottom line: i would just continue playing, try around, do your routine, play what you like, maybe do some tone matching exercises but don't get too caught up with it.

edit: i don't play jazz select but i guess you're reeds are a bit on the softer side. this isn't bad per se. has it's advantages and disadvantages. however, i found that harder reeds make for a more even tone. softer reeds are more sensitive, you can get a great sound with them but the c#2/d2 transition gets more noticeable.

 

i found that harder reeds make for a more even tone. softer reeds are more sensitive, you can get a great sound with them but the c#2/d2 transition gets more noticeable.

I haven't found this to be true, once you get used to softer reeds, there is no reason the sound, especially C# to D, should be any less even.

I agree with you totally about points 4 and 5, this is really crucial, not to get too bogged down in this: the audience are not likely to complain, and it does become part of tour own personal sound, some notes will pop out, others slide out.

Of course, the evenness may be more important in classical or some section situations. Otherwise this difference is a lot of the character of the horn.

having said all that I do still practise evenness.

One thing I do to help with the evenness is when I practise something that starts on the same note as it ends, either long notes, scales or licks, is to hold the last note for a while then drop down a semitone while thinking it as the same tone, then play the next phrase, scale or lick.

Or up a semitone.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions, folks.

I like the sound of my C2. I like the sound of my D2. That transition isn't the biggest issue I'm dealing with. What I don't like is how F#2 or G#2 don't sound as good as F2 and G2. Worst is D#2 compared to D2 or E2.

Back to the practice room . . .

 

I like the sound of my C2. I like the sound of my D2. That transition isn't the biggest issue I'm dealing with. What I don't like is how F#2 or G#2 don't sound as good as F2 and G2. Worst is D#2 compared to D2 or E2.

Back to the practice room . . .

Yes, do keep practising, however there could be other factors involved. D#2 tonehole is not in line with the others F# is a "forked" fingering. G# is a smaller tonehole. These should not be the reason, but have yo had your horn checked lately?

re: the D#2, as the tonehole is at the back, try recording yourself with the mic about two meters away, do you hear the problem when recorded?

 

This is what I'm doing most of the day. Playing horns and setting them up with an even tone. That said, most horns that have not had this type of work done are terribly uneven. A 'C' scale will often sounds like Doo-waa-doo-waa-waa-doo etc... Making a horn play evenly is something that should be done, and seldom is. So, the player is forced to struggle with it. I find that sax players fight to the death saying that this is part of playing the instrument. Then, you fix the thing and they say, "cool man, it plays so even..." -You would think that someone somewhere in my career would have said, "I liked it better uneven" or "It had more character" They never do. But I digress...

A timbre change will often be accompanied by a intonation problem. Like D# is brighter than E and it's also more sharp. Or G is brighter than A. Resistant tones on the saxophone are often, topC, A, F#, E,D. Strident notes are often B, G, G#,F,C. Sometimes the differences are subtle sometimes they are glaring.

This might help:
http://www.musicmedic.com/info/articles/num_25.html

 

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Curt. Sending my sax to you for a "play even" adjusment is very appealing. What is your fee?

Do you think Yanagisawa knows how its own horns ought to be adjusted for most even scale? I'm not asking if every horn ships this way, just whether the company itself knows what things OUGHT to be like.

Do other good sax techs know what you know about getting an even scale? In other words, do you think you're unique in your knowledge about these things?

 

Curt, I have a one-year diploma in band instrument repair from Western Iowa Tech. Part of my training was the complete overhaul of a tenor sax in terrible shape. I had to take everything apart, strip the lacquer off in a tank of methylene chloride, straighten the body, remove dents, flatten tone holes, straighten rods, make a couple of new rods and screws (even manufacture a tapered screw from scratch), solder a post back on, flatten a couple of pad cups, put in a new set of pads, install a new neck cork, re-size the neck tenon, buff the whole thing, spray new lacquer, etc. --and play a chromatic scale top to bottom on the project horn for the class as part of my final grade (new and tough for a trumpet player!).

I mention this only to say that I'm pretty sure my sax is mechanically sound. I've looked it over carefully (leak light, feelers) and can't find a thing that would suggest that anything isn't working properly. This T991 came to me from Kessler's as tight as a drum and is still as tight as a drum as far as I can tell.

I'm assuming your regulation is about key heights and using materials that keep these heights stable over time.

What's your fee for regulating a mechanically sound horn (if I'm right about mine)?

E-mail me if you want your reply to be private. billbryant@rap.midco.net

 

I mention this only to say that I'm pretty sure my sax is mechanically sound. I've looked it over carefully (leak light, feelers) and can't find a thing that would suggest that anything isn't working properly. This T991 came to me from Kessler's as tight as a drum and is still as tight as a drum as far as I can tell.

I'm assuming your regulation is about key heights and using materials that keep these heights stable over time.

Does your training include any basic information about how the saxophone works acoustically? The open tone holes below any sounding tone hole form a filter which, more than anything else, determines the tone quality characteristics of the instrument. This is why venting - key height - is so important. It establishes the cut-off frequency of the filter.

 

Now we are on the subject of it possibly being the horn rather than the player (or maybe that being a part of it), do you experience the exact same thing on other horns?

 

Typically insightful, Pete. (Or is that inciteful?) :bluewink:

I haven't played that many tenor saxes. I owned an SX90R for a while and couldn't stand D2--stuffy. D#2 was disliked as well.

On my T991, I have no problem with D2 but D#2 fares just as it did on the SX90R.