Say it ain't so, MBS.

I'm 47, and have regretted all my life that I never took up the sax. I just started less than 3 months ago, and I know I'll never be a pro, or even get beyond intermediate level, but I'm really enjoying myself, and if I can eventually entertain myself, friends, and family, that's enough for me. I too was concerned about time. I own my own business, and work a hell of a lot of hours, but I always find at least 1/2 hour of time a day to practice. In that short amount of time, I can really see progress.

I hope you reconsider; you may not progress as quickly as you like, but you'll get there.

Good luck....

Frank

 

Why not give it at least three more years before you decide to quit. Learning to get the sound you want is tough, but in the end, when it comes, you won't regret any of the thousands of hours you have spent on the horn. I put the sax down for twenty-something years and not a day went by I didn't regret it, even though the pressures of making a living required it--or so I thought. Looking back, I think I could have and should have found a way to keep playing over that time. In any event I am back playing for four years now and I am just now starting to get the sound I want out of the horn. It feels great! You might read Effortless Mastery by Kenny Werner--a great book and a faster way to reach "The Sound". Hang in there. I predict you will not regret it.

 

Man i'm 43 and a half, started a 40, i've taken lessons for about three of those years. I'm recently got to where I think my alto sound is decent. Oh to have the ten years between 30-40! Regret is a tough bed partner. The reward is the journey itself. 10 years from now how will you feel about your decision to quit? Is that the legacy you want to leave? I'd rather someone say I did the best my circumstances would allow and got decent at sax playing, than to say I quit and sucked at it.

I hope (as do many of us who read this board) you would reconsider. Slap a reed in your mouth, you know you like wetting one up!
Play 1 note as clean as you can.

If you wake up tomorrow and still want to quit sell me you rig.

 

I wanted to express myself with that beatutiful sax sound. I wanted to improvise and sound good. ~~~~ I live in NY and have jerk neighbors so if sudden inspiration came, I couldnt do anything about it. you gotta be able to play whats in your head at any time. I could never do that.
I'm thankful for the experience that i had with the tenor sax. one thing for sure is that i have endless respect for musicians. Im sorry i cant be one.

From what I am hearing, you sound like a musician to me. Contrary to popular belief, you aint got to play anything to be a musician. If you feel that way about music, it will never leave you. Especially the thing about inspiration. I think that one day you will make a very good musician, and you just might come back to the sax. Don't worry though, it will wait for you. Don't forget, timing is everything. The decision to quit or stick with it is totally up to you, only you know your own circumstances.

Bariman

 

Don't quit five minutes before the miracle.

I'm 58 and just started. Play like a pro? Never! Have lots of time? You've got to be kidding! Afford the best schools? In my wildest dreams! Enjoy what I'm doing? YOU BETCHA!!!!!!!! Wouldn't trade it for anything (well, almost)!

I have already found that, since I'll not get to pro level in my lifetime - pay sucks anyway I hear - I MUST find ways to have fun in what I'm doing.

Some day I would like to get to the point where I can play along with Sonny Stitt or Stanley Turrentine. And I would like to get to where I can play with my friends in a neighborhood band, and to fill in with my church worship team.

Are these extravagant goals? I think NOT! They are being fulfilled among us every day. Just read these forums to see the results, especially this one.

So the moral of my story is: Lower your expectations and don't throw away what you've worked so hard for. Put it to good use along another line and HAVE FUN!!!!!

God bless and I hope you stay with us.

 

Yeah, I know how it is. Responsibilities, pay the bills, kids, school, work, whatever... all of those things take-up enormous time and it sucks all of your energy. You feel tired comming home after work and you don't feel like doing much. Hey... not judging you BTW, we're all the same

As far as I'm concerned even a complete, total beginner can express him/herself through an instrument. But if you feel you can't express yourself by not getting the results you wish, I think perhaps you have been aiming at some un-realistic goals? - If you aim too high, you'll always get the feeling that you have not accomplished anything.

Also maybe I'm wrong (you tell me) but it seems obvious in your message that you don't want saxophone to be a priority in your life but you don't seem to accept the fact that because of this you won't be a big-gun sax player... well, you gotta make a choice and assume the choice you've made.

I know that I'll never be a big-gun player because I got a terrible sense of timing, I'm terrible at sight-reading and even though I understand theory and the concept of improvisation I can't remember the chord progressions - But that's never stoped me from playing. I play sax because I enjoy it and I enjoy the challenges it brings me.

Maybe you should take some time to think about all this and about what it is about saxophone that you liked before you make such a drastic decision.

 

mbs, I agee with you. you are too old to start if it's your only income. Get a (real) job, pay the bills, and then take up sax as a hobby. You never know, one day you may earn a few scheckles for your trouble. This way you won't have to beat yourself up and you might get to enjoy it. nicko

 

Maybe the problem was that Julliard instructor...You can learn all the technical stuff but you should be playins some SONGS too.... not just scales. You've got to also be doing stuff that will leave you inspired.

Quite frankly, 3 years is nothing. You're just taking your first baby steps.

Keep playing, even if only as a hobby. One day you'll be glad you did.

(I'm 50 years old and only getting back into it seriously the past half-dozen years after a 30-year layoff. I got MARRIED the same year you were born and have an alto I bought 10 years before you were born, so lets not hear any more of that over-the-hill stuff.....)

 

Man, get some aebersold playalongs, throw away the formal stuff for a while and play the damn horn. Work on your setup, work on your tone. Im not a good player by far, I have only played 2 years but I spent a long time working on tone and Ive been told its quite respectable when my other technique doesnt suck. Lighten up and dont give up if you have an ounce of passion for music left in you. Its not going to happen overnight. Its hard...It supposed to be hard...if it was easy it would not be worth doing!

 

Maybe the problem was that Julliard instructor...You can learn all the technical stuff but you should be playins some SONGS too.... not just scales. You've got to also be doing stuff that will leave you inspired.

I have to agree with tim! Scales are okay for pure beginners and warm ups/practice but, like an old timer once told me, God rest his soul, "you gots to learn da tunes!" Playing actual tunes can give the student a greater feeling of satisfaction.

You live in NY? If it ain't rainin' then practice up on the roof. You're neighbors are jerks? You're from NY! Just wave to them with the "big finger" like all NY'ers do!

Working to live is okay but at least try to do what you love!

 

play in the parking lot, turn on the radio and play along, Hell I didn't start until my late 20's... sheesh that's nearly 20 years ago now... anyway, I can't spout a lot of theory, have limited "licks" buthave a decent ear, have a day job, side job, wife, 4 kids under age 12, house, home improvement projects, and play in a rock and roll band... and most of all I have a blast...

will I ever be great, no freakin way, will I have the most fun out of anyone I know? Damn straight!

Just stick the thing in yer face and blow.

I feel lucky, the instructors I had asked me what I wanted to do, and guided me in that direction. After getting a few basic scales under my fingers, I worked on learning tunes I wanted to play, each one is a lesson or several lessons. All my instructors have told me I need to learn my scales and chords, adn I understand, but given my limited time, I do what I can, and have found that playing with others, in this latest band, it has helped that immensely, it jsut starts to creep in. I still can't spout off a lot of theory, and get glazed eyes when others do, but I know if they tell me the tune is in E, that's F# for me (tenor) and I have an idea of what notes will work, and then just pour my heart and soul into it... mistakes, yeah I've made a few (well more than a few) but what the hell it's music, it ain't brain surgery... its all about having fun.

okay, I'm off the soapboax,


NEXXXXTTTT!

"resistance is futile, you will be assimilated."

 

If you quit, we will send our goons. There's no leaving The Family.

- The Sax Mafia

 

mbs, the fact that you posted this here tells me you probably are a musician, since you obviously don't really want to quit, and you may find that you can't quit.

Look at it this way:

29 is young, 3 years of playing time is not enough to sound really good (with a few rare exceptions), and in 10 years you'll be 39. If you quit now, in ten years you'll be 39 and still won't be able to play. If you don't quit, you'll be 39 with 10 more years of practice and playing experience, and you might actually sound great by then. Very few things are certain in life, but if you quit now, you can be sure you'll regret it later on.

 

Well. So somebody's going to play the a** h***, might as well be me.

To complain and quit after only three years is almost an insult to those who have played for decades and still struggle with many of the same things you're struggling with (only by degree). Three years and age 29 ain't nuthin'.

Would you like sympathy for the problems you face? You'll get it, and warmly too, because we all have the same. Sympathy for quitting after only three years? fugitaboutit.

Now, if I were the only respondent, I would be nicer, but the above posts have given a fair share of sympathy and encouragement so that leaves it to somebody else to introduce a different kind of reality check.

No place in NYC to practice? Impossible. You're not being resourceful enough.

29 is too late? My colleague, former sax teacher and big band leader is a fine woodwind player. He is a full-time musician with five kids under the age of 19. He didn't start sax until he was 27 or 28.

You think that wanting to express yourself with that beatiful sax sound, to improvise and sound good, comes in three years? Think again. I told a great player, Dino Govoni, that I was not satisfied with a solo I played on a concert and he said "Gary...I'm never satisfied with a solo I play". I was at a seminar where Michael Brecker said "I'm usually the weakest player on the stage when I play".

You have the feeling that "...all along there was an overwhelming feeling inside that I was after an unachievable goal"? Sounds like a self-defeating, self-fulfilling prophecy. But again, welcome the club. Feelings of inadequacy is shared by most artists in all expressive fields. Deal with it. If you want to stick it out you will find a great deal of support from forum members for those times of depression because we have all been through it.

Have you stopped to think that not being able to really master it is exactly what makes it a worth-while and meaningful activity? Any moron can max out in the knowledge of many career fields or liesure-time pursuits. You can't say that about music. Sure it can be frustrating, but it is also challenging and fascinating; something new to learn every single day you wake up.

So quit if you want. If you aren't finding it fascinating and emotionally rewarding, by all means don't do it. But you can become a professional musician if you really want to. You can continue to be a hobby-musician and get a lot of pleasure out of music if you want. Sometimes there are just things in life you've got to have cahones to see these challenges through to get satisfaction from. If you quit after only three years I guarantee you when you are fifty you will bang your head up against a wall thinking, no - knowing- how good you could sound at fifty after having played for a full twenty-one years more. And how you could've used that 21 years' experience to play for, hopefull, another twenty or thirty years more.

I think you're cheating yourself, man. Think it over. And keep in mind, we've all been through it so if you need a place to get thoughts on how to deal with these challenges and overcome, or at least live through them, stick around. Notice I didn't say "if you need a place to run away from the problems". I would ponder what Bill had to say. Maybe take a short breather from playing.

At three years of playing, you're still a babe in the woods. Don't do something now you're going to regret in another 27 years from now.

 

mbs: Man, all of us are with you. Music is a harsh mistress; she wants everything you've got, and more.

I started performing at 14. Never had patience for the basics of tone production and whatnot. Am self-taught, with snippets of formal instruction. Learned on the bandstand how to improvise and blend into an ensemble. Went full-time pro in my mid-20s. Through hard work and dumb luck, had some success recording and touring. Was never satisfied with my sound, but never had the self-discipline to fix it. Hated the lifestyle. Doubted that I was really a musician. Finally burned out, couldn't face another road trip. At the age of 35 I quit my band, left the music biz, didn't touch a sax for 12 years, doubted I'd ever play again.

I'm 52 now, leading two bands and sitting in with several more. Am composing and teaching music, and even went back out on the road for a few weeks. Am basically a marginally-employed suburban Dad and semi-pro saxman, the same kind of weekend warrior I used to disdain when I was a pro. The time away helped me drop old bad habits and approach my sound with new ears. I'm playing better than ever now, experimenting with new gear and learning from other players (especially here at the Forum). I dare to think of recording again.

Am still dissatisfied with my skills. Still very much a student of music and sax and life. Somehow I emerged from this long dark tunnel into a place where playing the sax is a challenge and a consolation, a means of pure expression, a way of finding community, a reason to live. It ain't over 'til it's over. Get away from it if you must, stay with it if you can. The journey IS the destination.

 

Well. So somebody's going to play the a** h***, might as well be me.

Well there you have it. Gary you are spot on. We tend to live in a consumer society . We are conditioned by the media to expect to "Have it now" why wait, Why work hard, give us your money and we will show you the secret etc.

I drift from being pleased with my progress to being totaly depressed. Ask myself silly questions like "Maybe I should try an alto instead." etc.

Then I realise its for me , no-one else , Sometimes my wife gives me feedback saying "You sounded good tonight" man that feels great.

Give it up if you want but you know before you do , think back to before you even held a sax in your hands. How would you have felt if you could play a simple tune. YOU CAN NOW. How would you have felt if you run up and down a scale. YOU CAN NOW. Give yourself a break and just get on with it. . YOU ARE A LONG TIME DEAD

 

Seems to me that mbs isn't even paying attention to any of this...

 

To all who responded

Thank you all for your words of encouragement and sorry for the delay fballatore. I read and thought about each and every post and everyone had alot of insight. Many of you mentioned being realistic with my expectations. When i hear Coltrane's solo on Blue in Green or a Getz tune, I feel like i just MUST play it right now!!!!! I forget that these guys put years and years into their art and I didn't respect that I think. I think by pressuring myself i took every bit of joy out of playing and i regret that. Many of you mentioned playing and learning tunes. Come to think of it, it was only recently that i bought some Abersold sheet music. Most of my practice time is spent going through Universal Method and not learning tunes. I guess i kinda missed the point of playing music and I really appreciate everyone helping me figure that out.

 

mbs -

Upon reading my previous post, it probably came across as rude. It wasn't meant that way - it was tongue in cheek. My apologies.

And I'm very happy that the comments helped.

Good luck!

Frank

 

mbs,

I played from 6th grade through high school. Dispite the fact that I played first tenor in the jazz band for three years, I was frustrated with both my sound and my improvosational skills. Not that either was bad, but it wasn't like Grover Washington, Stanly Turrentine, or Stan Getz. Once I left high school, I stopped playing.

20 years later, a friend talked me into playing in our church orchestra. Once my chops started coming back, I just about cried. I forgot how much richer my life is though making music. All that wasted time...

As mentioned above, those Ambersold play-along CDs are great fun. Once you learn the tune, you can start adding a few grace notes, then start experimenting with the melody. You can also buy CDs of other artists performing the same song to see what they do with it. You can usually find a few licks you can use.

Becoming a good player is a long road. It's important to learn how to enjoy the trip!

 

mbs, I could say everything that has been said above my post...but its already been said. Want a REALLY humbling experience? Try GOLF!

I have been playing golf for ten years now. Still trying to break 80 (legitimately), I can have a great round going, surely on my way to get 78 and get a 10 on the last par 5 and blow the entire round. If everyone who played golf could shoot even par or below par, we wouldn't have a PGA because everyone would turn pro.

Music like golf takes patience, dedication and a humble willing spirit to learn. If you don't have a lot of time, then set some realistic goals, accomplish them and then set some more.

I also returned to college after about a 20 year layoff. I am a junior now, taking one or two classes per semester, and its going to take me probably 3 more years (at least) to finish my bachelors degree. I run a respectible IT business, play golf during the summer months, have a commuter marriage (Detroit - Chicago) which takes up most of my weekends, live in a condo with neighbors who don't want to be disturbed, and I have been playing the sax for 36 years with some interruptions in that as well.

Now, I maintain a 3.4GPA, drive over $2M per year in revenue for my company, shoot in the low-mid 80's on the golf course and can hit most par 5's in two and win my share of the skins when I play, Love my wife, and put a portable sound booth in my condo so I can play whenever the inspiration hits me. I can play in any club in Detroit, Chicago, or any other city for that matter, sit in, jam sessions, and could be a working pro if I didn't have all the other facets of my life to manage, and I love every bit of it.

Having said all of this, my point is that we find the time to do what we love, and if we really love it, we can set our own realistic goals to achieve and be satisfied with what we have accomplished. We can't beat ourselves up over everything that we don't do perfectly and we CANNOT do everything perfectly. So if you are a musician, or even a musician at heart, keep your horn, play it when you can, try to keep your chops in shape so you are not starting over everytime you pick up the horn, and tell us how you are doing six months, a year or even three years from now! So stop reading and start playing! And if it disturbs your neighbors, stick a sock, or a pillow or something in it! Really!

 

mbs, I could say everything that has been said above my post...but its already been said. Want a REALLY humbling experience? Try GOLF!

3saxes; If you're ever in my neck of the woods you've got to play the course we affectionately call "The Deuce"! It just might get you shootin' in the 90's again! (The US Open is being played there this year!)

Now for mbs' dilemma, I must agree with you. It's easy to quit but it sure isn't much fun!

 

Re: To all who responded

Thank you all for your words of encouragement... Many of you mentioned playing and learning tunes... Most of my practice time is spent going through Universal Method and not learning tunes.

mbs,

Sometimes we cant see the forest for the trees and need somebody else to point out the obvious to us. I do, at least.

It sounds like you're ready to go again. Take a short breather to get back on track. THen you'll be ready to hit with enthusiasm again.

By the way, the place where I go for my practice ideas, which has been my main help lately is: www.saxlessons.com/gettingstarted4.htm

 

Once you learn the tune, you can start adding a few grace notes, then start experimenting with the melody.

This is a very subtile suggestion that has a lot more to it than meets the eye.

If you've been frustrated I would suggest not jumping into the whole chord/scale thing on improvising but rather learning to embellish the melody. Read Lee Konitz' 10 Steps to improvisation on Mel Martin's web site for an excellent method of doing this.

 

Yea man, give it some more time. Even if you can't devote and hour or 2 to practicing, do what you can when you can. One thing that stuck out to me when watching "The Last Samurai" was when the guy told Tom Cruise ... "Too many mind" I think we, me especially, try to be so regulated and do what everyone else does. We study nothing but scales, we learn the theory, we get "educated". While, that's great and all, we don't really concentrate on the most important thing.... having fun. And letting the music express us. You know scales I'm sure, just play sometime, put stuff together. If it sounds bad... so what, it will get better with time.

Learn a blues scale, for when you are depressed and feeling down and put something together. Try out different mouthpieces, saxophones, reeds, heck... even ligs, lol to try to find the tone that you desire.

I tell you reading this thread was kind of discouraging, especially all the comments saying you will never play like a pro, but who's to say you won't? How do you know what could happen tomorrow, next month, next year? You may get new ideas, you may unlock that one thing in your mind that could be holding you back from playing like your own "pro" that lies within.