[SaxClar]

I would say it all depends on how important battery power is. If I were doing it, I would avoid relying on a small built-in battery like the 84 Watt-hour one in the EV speakers and use a 500 Watt-hour external camping battery pack like this, powering the EXM400: Amazon Jackery camping power pack
Then you only need to carry the battery when you need battery power, and you will have maybe 5x the run time of the EV at the same volume. This solution would work for any portable speaker.

The power supplies in these speakers are of the switching type (except for possibly the satellite supply for the Class A/B 75 W amp), so they are efficient and you won't lose much power in the conversion.

FWIW, the Bose S1's battery is rated at 11 hours operating time and the Everse 8 at 12 hours. In the 3 years I've been using a couple of S1 units, I consistently get two or three 3-4 hr gigs out of an S1, with battery life to spare. No degradation so far. Of course, I'm not cranking it up to full volume (usually about half volume for most gigs), but that's my experience.

I can't speak for others, but for me, the internal rechargeable battery is extremely important and it has been a game-changer over the past few years of gigs. No need to worry about whether there'll be electrical power where they want me to set up -- or if there's power, how close I'll be to an outlet (or what obstacles I have to navigate in order to access it with an extension cord) -- and no need to carry a portable power supply. I can set up anywhere, with no cords.

 

[adjustotone]

Definitely real-life experience is worth more than my theorizing. Thanks for sharing this.

One thing seems clear, though, that the internal battery solutions are practical only when the need for high volume is rare. It's an exponentially difficult battle to get to higher volumes with significant run times with a small, fixed amount of energy available. The EV does not seem to have a plug-in option that gives full power when the battery isn't needed -- making it an expensive, special purpose solution. It would be super-easy to add this feature. Also, it would actually make more sense to have a larger speaker run on battery, since larger speakers are often more efficient by about 6 dB.

I just enjoy thinking about these speaker design problems...

Here is a video I just found that illustrates my points about battery power. He says he measured the EV at a max of 101 dB at clipping and the QSC at 110 dB.

FWIW, the Bose S1's battery is rated at 11 hours operating time and the Everse 8 at 12 hours. In the 3 years I've been using a couple of S1 units, I consistently get two or three 3-4 hr gigs out of an S1, with battery life to spare. No degradation so far. Of course, I'm not cranking it up to full volume (usually about half volume for most gigs), but that's my experience.

I can't speak for others, but for me, the internal rechargeable battery is extremely important and it has been a game-changer over the past few years of gigs. No need to worry about whether there'll be electrical power where they want me to set up -- or if there's power, how close I'll be to an outlet (or what obstacles I have to navigate in order to access it with an extension cord) -- and no need to carry a portable power supply. I can set up anywhere, with no cords.

 

[Tonehole]

This is a valuable learning experience for me and I will have to take a dive into researching more as I have never needed to know this info in the past I just showed up and there is a sound guy.

I am a novice at this but is an increase of 6 Db the equivalent of adding another speaker?

Not doubting your math.
I am searching to find a EV8 user who can verify the run time at full volume, someone must have used this speaker at 113 Db for 13 minutes and drained the battery the digital display shows Db level but I can find no reports / complaints on it. This may be why the battery can be swapped out so easily.

All the comparison reviews I have watched / listened to the EV seems louder when set at the same Db and this is commented on by the posters. Could this be due to the spread, in a comparison between the EV and the S1 Pro it sounds noticeably louder. The S1 has a 120 spread and the EV 100.

I will be keeping my EM400 and will investigate more on these powered speakers, after a bit of data diving the S1 Pro may be the better option for my outdoor / patio playing needs and level of electronics expertise, it is more old school and plug and play. I was considering a back up battery pack but I would not be playing at those Db levels outside. I was hoping to be able to swap out the EM400 with the EV for stage shows but seems one speaker won't do it all. I guess the adage holds true go big or go home.

 

[adjustotone]

Good observation about the spread -- yes, more directivity will produce a longer throw in theory -- the energy is spread out over less area.

Yes, right now what I see are a lot of EV and vendor videos with no real performance data. All sales. They seem to be sponsoring "independent" "DJ" reviewers. We have one independent measurement that shows the EV does not meet it claimed max. SPL, which is no surprise to me. I saw one video that had an obviously fake sound test!

Does it have its uses? Yes, low volume ones.

 

[dtedsax]

@adjustotone: Your math is admirable, but In the real world the Everse 8 battery lasts as advertised.

 

[liggy]

This has been a useful thread for information. Hard to imagine a battery operated PA being able to deliver serious power for long periods of time.

For seriously loud I have a qsc k8. That needs to be plugged in but it is LOUD!

I wonder how long a 70,200mah power bank would keep a battery / plug in PA going? I can’t find power consumption specs on the Mackie site.

 

[SaxClar]

Hard to imagine a battery operated PA being able to deliver serious power for long periods of time.

I guess that depends on how you define “serious” and “long.” For me — and a lot of others — these battery-powered PA units deliver. I do over 100 solo gigs a year — mostly restaurants, assisted living communities, and corporate/private parties — ranging from a dozen to 100 ppl, and a single Bose S1 (operating at 50% volume with sax/voice mics and an iPad plugged in) still gives me the advertised 11 hours of playing time on a single battery charge. Most of my gigs require only a single S1, although I sometimes use a second one for added “fill."

Remember, these battery-powered PA units are not being targeted toward 5-piece rock bands that need to raise the roof all night. Rather, they’re mainly for solo/duo acts playing small/medium-sized venues where a clean, pure sound is desired, and volume typically has to be kept to what I call a “conversational” level. In 3 years of using the S1 Pro, I’ve never had a venue operator say “Is that all the volume you can give me?” But there have been a couple who’ve asked me to tone it down because it was too loud. I sometimes forget how well the S1’s dispersion helps create a fairly even sound throughout the room, and I don’t need to crank it up to reach the folks at the far end of the venue.

I used to own a couple of Behringer 1000-watt 15-inch powered speakers. 35 lbs each. Needed 2 men and a boy to lift them up onto the gas-piston-powered speaker stands. Volume? Sure. Off the charts. Sold those speakers after 3 gigs and a near-hernia. I’m 63 and play gigs to enjoy myself, not to break my back. Bought a couple of Bose S1 Pros. Half the size of the Behringers, less than half the weight, easier to load/haul, quicker to set up, tons more fun. And plenty of power for what I do.

I also have a Bose L1 Pro 8 (much more power and low end — 13” woofer) — but I’ve used it only twice this year (out of 60+ gigs so far) — and only when I needed to fill 3 rooms with sound. For those situations, I use the L1 Pro 8 as my main unit, and I connect (wirelessly) a couple of S1 Pros in the separate dining areas. Prop ‘em up on a table in a corner and away we go.

The battery-powered units being sold today have a mission, and they tend to perform their mission well.

It’s all a matter of what you need for the types of gigs you play.

 

[liggy]

@SaxClar - makes perfect sense. I never do solo events unless it’s a house party for fun with friends with tracks. Otherwise it’s typically a minimum of 4 pieces including me.

 

[swperry1]

I guess that depends on how you define “serious” and “long.” For me — and a lot of others — these battery-powered PA units deliver. I do over 100 solo gigs a year — mostly restaurants, assisted living communities, and corporate/private parties — ranging from a dozen to 100 ppl, and a single Bose S1 (operating at 50% volume with sax/voice mics and an iPad plugged in) still gives me the advertised 11 hours of playing time on a single battery charge. Most of my gigs require only a single S1, although I sometimes use a second one for added “fill."

Remember, these battery-powered PA units are not being targeted toward 5-piece rock bands that need to raise the roof all night. Rather, they’re mainly for solo/duo acts playing small/medium-sized venues where a clean, pure sound is desired, and volume typically has to be kept to what I call a “conversational” level. In 3 years of using the S1 Pro, I’ve never had a venue operator say “Is that all the volume you can give me?” But there have been a couple who’ve asked me to tone it down because it was too loud. I sometimes forget how well the S1’s dispersion helps create a fairly even sound throughout the room, and I don’t need to crank it up to reach the folks at the far end of the venue.

I used to own a couple of Behringer 1000-watt 15-inch powered speakers. 35 lbs each. Needed 2 men and a boy to lift them up onto the gas-piston-powered speaker stands. Volume? Sure. Off the charts. Sold those speakers after 3 gigs and a near-hernia. I’m 63 and play gigs to enjoy myself, not to break my back. Bought a couple of Bose S1 Pros. Half the size of the Behringers, less than half the weight, easier to load/haul, quicker to set up, tons more fun. And plenty of power for what I do.

I also have a Bose L1 Pro 8 (much more power and low end — 13” woofer) — but I’ve used it only twice this year (out of 60+ gigs so far) — and only when I needed to fill 3 rooms with sound. For those situations, I use the L1 Pro 8 as my main unit, and I connect (wirelessly) a couple of S1 Pros in the separate dining areas. Prop ‘em up on a table in a corner and away we go.

The battery-powered units being sold today have a mission, and they tend to perform their mission well.

It’s all a matter of what you need for the types of gigs you play.

Absolutely. These battery-powered rigs aren’t geared towards full bands in loud venues; they work perfectly for small solo/ duo- type acts.

 

[adjustotone]

@adjustotone: Your math is admirable, but In the real world the Everse 8 battery lasts as advertised.

At what volume -- that is the question. I gave it credit for lasting 12 hours at 95 dB, which is the basis for the other estimates. It's always possible I made a mistake somewhere, but there are some universal truths it is up against, such as +3 dB requires twice the power, making the battery last half as long.

 

[adjustotone]

This has been a useful thread for information. Hard to imagine a battery operated PA being able to deliver serious power for long periods of time.

For seriously loud I have a qsc k8. That needs to be plugged in but it is LOUD!

I wonder how long a 70,200mah power bank would keep a battery / plug in PA going? I can’t find power consumption specs on the Mackie site.

Well, to scope this out, the specs say the amp peaks at 2000 W. They also say the peak SPL is 128 dB @ 1 m. They don't say at what frequency (probably one where there is a response peak) or if this is pink noise. Anyway, it all depends on what volume level you need. If we assume the amp is 90% efficient, then

power_w = (1/0.90)*(2000 W)*10^((SPL - 128 dB)/10)

where SPL is the volume you expect to use at 1 m,

and

runtime_hr = 70.2 A h * battery_volts / power_w

We need to know what voltage the battery puts out to an inverter so we know how much energy is stored in the battery (W h). Then you have an estimate.

Note that 100 dB would require about 3.2 W output from the amplifier, and 110 dB about 32 W, if we use the peak ratings as a basis. These are not too unreasonable for an efficient speaker.

 

[adjustotone]

This sounds like it might be a car or boat battery and then it would be 12 Volts. So then the battery provides 70.2 Ah * 12 V = 864 Wh.
Then at 110 dB, the draw might be 32 W/0.9 = 36 W. Then run time at 110 dB would be approx.

hours = 864 Wh / 36 W = 24 h

…this seems overly optimistic. We probably need better data than fake peak power and volume numbers.

 

[liggy]

This sounds like it might be a car or boat battery and then it would be 12 Volts. So then the battery provides 70.2 Ah * 12 V = 864 Wh.
Then at 110 dB, the draw might be 32 W/0.9 = 36 W. Then run time at 110 dB would be approx.

hours = 864 Wh / 36 W = 24 h

…this seems overly optimistic. We probably need better data than fake peak power and volume numbers.

lol.. that made my head hurt.

I don’t trust the Mackie power output at all - they claim 1300 peak watts whatever that is. It can get some volume going but the peak spl isn’t that amazing. 121 or 118.

For some reason I do trust the QSC numbers - that thing puts out some serious volume. I think I read something about their amps being a new class of very high efficiency tech.

The power bank is my camping SHTF box until I get a proper generator.

Power Station 252.7Wh Power House

Portable Power Station RAVPower 252.7Wh Power House Solar Generator with Dual 110V 250W AC Outlet 60W PD and 120W DC Output Input Battery Backup for Outdoor Camping Road Trip CPAP Emergency Home Use

www.ravpower.com

Marketing verbiage:

• Powerful Pure Sine Wave AC Outlets: Two 110V AC outlets deliver stable and mighty 250W when using one only, and a total 300W when using both, perfect for your small appliances on your camping or road trips
• Backup Generator for CPAP and Power Outages: Colossal battery capacity, 252. 7Wh/70200mAh, packed in a small size is a ready for hours of use when power outage or supporting your CPAP
• Mighty 60W PD Input & Output: Meets the power supply needs for all your PD devices, from smartphones to laptops, at top speed - revive your MacBook Pro in only 3 hours

 

[adjustotone]

What, the logarithms and powers of 10?

Ok, so let's take 1300 W peak and 121 dB. Not sure what your target average SPL is, but if it is 110 dB at 1 m:

SPL = 110 dB
power_w = (1/0.90)*(1300 W)*10^((SPL - 121 dB)/10) = 115 W
battery_energy_Wh = 253 Wh
battery_run_time_h = battery_energy_Wh / power_w = 253 Wh / 115 W = 2 hours

I still kind of doubt the 1300 W peak number. Suppose it is something more reasonable like 600 W.

Then you would have 2 hours * 1300 W / 600 W = 4.4 hours

But wait -- your power pack can only deliver 250 W out of an outlet, and it looks like it would do it for about an hour. So there you go -- you are limited to 1 hour at an SPL of

121 dB - 10*log(250/1300) dB = 121 - 7 dB = 114 dB

or if we take 600 W instead of 1300 W for 121 dB:

121 dB - 10*log(250/600) dB = 121 - 4 dB = 117 dB

For every -3 dB, you halve the power and double the run time.

So with the 1300 W you would get 2 hours at 111 dB, 4 hours at 108 dB, 8 hours at 105 dB, 16 hours at 102 dB, etc.

With the 600 W producing 121 dB, you would get 117 dB for 1 hour, 114 dB for 2 hours, 111 dB for 4 hours, 108 dB for 8 hours, etc.

If you have two speakers, that means you can only run each one at 150 W with this power pack. That will produce -6 dB below peak for one speaker, but since there are two, it will produce -3 dB total below 121 dB, or 118 dB for one hour.

So with this, you can adjust to more correct info. If you really want to know, you can measure the dB SPL at 1 m on-axis of the speaker, outdoors with your cell phone, and use an AC ammeter to to measure the AC RMS current drawn. Or, maybe your camping power pack has a readout of the power draw. Try several volume levels and plot dB vs. AC current (you really just need one SPL to project the battery life, though). Then the power draw will be 120 V * (measured RMS current draw in A) if you don't have a direct readout of it. Plug those dB and power numbers into the formulas I gave, but leave out the 1/0.90 efficiency factor.

Well, you asked : )

lol.. that made my head hurt.

I don’t trust the Mackie power output at all - they claim 1300 peak watts whatever that is. It can get some volume going but the peak spl isn’t that amazing. 121 or 118.



For some reason I do trust the QSC numbers - that thing puts out some serious volume. I think I read something about their amps being a new class of very high efficiency tech.

The power bank is my camping SHTF box until I get a proper generator.

Power Station 252.7Wh Power House

Portable Power Station RAVPower 252.7Wh Power House Solar Generator with Dual 110V 250W AC Outlet 60W PD and 120W DC Output Input Battery Backup for Outdoor Camping Road Trip CPAP Emergency Home Use

www.ravpower.com

Marketing verbiage:

• Powerful Pure Sine Wave AC Outlets: Two 110V AC outlets deliver stable and mighty 250W when using one only, and a total 300W when using both, perfect for your small appliances on your camping or road trips
• Backup Generator for CPAP and Power Outages: Colossal battery capacity, 252. 7Wh/70200mAh, packed in a small size is a ready for hours of use when power outage or supporting your CPAP
• Mighty 60W PD Input & Output: Meets the power supply needs for all your PD devices, from smartphones to laptops, at top speed - revive your MacBook Pro in only 3 hours

 

[liggy]

@SaxClar - that is some epic calculation. You just reminded me why I went to business school. A spreadsheet was enough maths for me.

With apologies to “Jaws” clearly “we are gonna need a bigger battery”

 

[Tonehole]

 

[SaxClar]

Thanks for posting this video, but it has to be the silliest and least useful gear review I've ever seen on YouTube. I'll save everyone some time and summarize here:

The guy spends 10 minutes describing the differences between the original Bose S1 Pro and the newly-released Bose S1 Pro Plus, which has a few new features. He keeps the second unit a cover the whole time, to build suspense I suppose... And then in the final seconds of the video he unveils the covered unit to reveal the Everse 8 -- which he recommends over the Bose. He offers no description of the Everse 8's features and gives no explanation as to why the Everse 8 is his choice.

Sure, there are valid reasons to choose the Everse over the Bose, depending on one's needs/preferences, but tech reviews are supposed to give insight into those reasons, to assist potential buyers. This guy's video gets high marks for shock value, low marks for usefulness.

 

[Tonehole]

Thanks for posting this video, but it has to be the silliest and least useful gear review I've ever seen on YouTube. I'll save everyone some time and summarize here:

The guy spends 10 minutes describing the differences between the original Bose S1 Pro and now the newly-released Bose S1 Pro Plus, which has a few new features. He keeps the second unit a cover the whole time, to build suspense I suppose... And then in the final seconds of the video he unveils the covered unit to reveal the Everse 8 -- which he recommends over the Bose. He offers no description of the Everse 8's features and gives no explanation as to why the Everse 8 is his choice.

Sure, there are valid reasons to choose the Everse over the Bose, depending on one's needs/preferences, but tech reviews are supposed to give insight into those reasons, to assist potential buyers. This guy's video gets high marks for shock value, low marks for usefulness.

He has done in-depth videos and shootouts between the Bose, JBL, EV8, and Mackie speakers, he is a pro drummer who buys a lot of speakers. He did a comparison between the EV8 and a QSC CP8 which adjustetone posted in the thread, so this is just a continuation post of his analysis of these speakers. So it is pulled out of context but does highlight the upgrades of the updated SI Pro which is why I posted it.

The updated S1 Pro sells for the same as the older model but costs more to add Bluetooth features which does not make it equal to the EV8 in his opinion.

 

[Tonehole]

Take a deep dive ..... he is an enthusiastic user, not a pro reviewer.

 

[SaxClar]

Take a deep dive ..... he is an enthusiastic user, not a pro reviewer.

These 2 additional videos of his that you posted are much more helpful. At a minimum, he should’ve linked to one or both of them at the end of his Bose S1 Pro vs S1 Pro+ comparison, to point the viewer to his reasons for preferring the EV.

As he states at the 23:40 mark of his Sound Test “Part 1” video... for him, it’s all about volume — which is why he likes the EV over the Bose in his “Part 2” video. And as I stated earlier, if I were a DJ, I'd probably prefer the EV. But there are some ergonomic differences between the two as well, which he acknowledges in his Part 2 video. And my ears also detected a clear difference in sound quality.

However, sound quality is highly subjective, and as he admits at the 15:30 mark of his Part 2 video, it’s a matter of personal preference.

Thanks for posting these videos. Good luck in your journey to find the right one for your needs.