Congrats on your purchase. I listened to your audio of your playing. I am sorry to say it sounds compleat with tuning issues on almost every note of the recording. This is meant as constructive criticism.

 

Oh, thanks, that makes me feel so much better. Thanks for taking the time to share such helpful criticism.

 

20 years ago l used to buy things from ShopGoodwill. It was the wild west. Nobody knew nothin' at the stores. You had to be like a lawyer to get pertinent info from them. I bought at least 8 saxes mostly Bueschers, guitars, drums, amps, clothes, art etc.. now because of the internet everyone knows everything, that goes for pawn shops too.

 

FWIW, if the Tonalin doesn’t go easily on the cork, don’t force it. Those old polymer mouthpieces get brittle with age.

 

Thanks. I know most old Tonalins have cracks in the shaft, so I'll be careful.

 

Yeah, it's pretty 'out of tune' and 'thin'.
I'd like to hear a clip using the original King mouthpiece.
Are you using a synthetic reed?

 

No, that was a cane reed, maybe a Java 3.

 

Epic encouragement, guys.

@Danjocross - first congrats on the score, though do get it checked for leaks.

Regarding intonation, yes, in the recording there’s some issues that need working on but it’s nothing that can’t be achieved without some time and practise. A couple of things stand out to me: first at times you seem lack you lack a bit of air support, so some long tone practise is going to help - while you’re playing them really try to listen in to the sound of your notes, experiment with what happens as you relax or tighten your embouchure, blow harder or softer and so on. Get a drone and try to listen to the beat fluctuations from being in and out of tune (slower beats = closer to in tune) and adjust slowly to try and increase and decrease them. You can do it with a tuner as well, but I prefer drones because they improve your ear at the same time.

Doing this is going to help three things: your ear, your intonation and your tone through the air control.

I’d also recommend checking out Dave Pollack’s SSC Dave Pollack which is a great community of all levels of playing. Dave is a great encouraging teacher and a monster player, and the community is filled with folks who encourage. Not sure if it’s open for new folk at the moment, but drop him an email and say I suggested it (Matt Darwin).

Enjoy your horn!

 

Intonation is out.
Practice long tones.
Use drones
Increase air support.

Precisely what’s already been said. But our notes attract your sarcastic “Epic encouragement” remark?

Why?

 

Intonation is out.
Practice long tones.
Use drones
Increase air support.

Precisely what’s already been said. But our notes attract your sarcastic “Epic encouragement” remark?

Why?

Let’s look at how things have been put across:

I am sorry to say it sounds compleat with tuning issues on almost every note of the recording. This is meant as constructive criticism.

There’s zero positivity here; nothing to go and help the guy know what to do to work on it. No encouragement. Just a big old “you suck” stick.

You might need to spend a bunch of time playing against drones and doing interval studies to nail down your voicing.

I’m sorry if it hurts your feelings, but you’re playing mostly out of tune the whole recording.

Better, but still it’s mostly tough advice (sorry if it hurts your feelings etc). Voicing as a term may not be understood by someone, some more explanation as to what that is would help. The tone of the advice is pretty negative.

Yeah, it's pretty 'out of tune' and 'thin'.
I'd like to hear a clip using the original King mouthpiece.
Are you using a synthetic reed?

Again not much here to say hey you can improve on this. Out of tune and thin. Just changing mouthpiece isn’t going to affect that.

It’s not just this thread, it’s very common on this forum; just bashing people for their playing. I know that @garyinla somehow takes pride in the fact he had an abusive teacher, but it’s not good to continue that trend; positivity and encouragement are the way forward.

Rather than being blunt, when no advice was even sought, @Danjocross is clearly very excited with their horn, and so it’s the perfect time to encourage and advise HOW to go about fixing those things.

 

Let’s look at how things have been put across:



There’s zero positivity here; nothing to go and help the guy know what to do to work on it. No encouragement. Just a big old “you suck” stick.



Better, but still it’s mostly tough advice (sorry if it hurts your feelings etc). Voicing as a term may not be understood by someone, some more explanation as to what that is would help. The tone of the advice is pretty negative.



Again not much here to say hey you can improve on this. Out of tune and thin. Just changing mouthpiece isn’t going to affect that.

It’s not just this thread, it’s very common on this forum; just bashing people for their playing. I know that @garyinla somehow takes pride in the fact he had an abusive teacher, but it’s not good to continue that trend; positivity and encouragement are the way forward.

Rather than being blunt, when no advice was even sought, @Danjocross is clearly very excited with their horn, and so it’s the perfect time to encourage and advise HOW to go about fixing those things.

It’s fair to say we differ in the extent we feel it necessary to sugar coat feedback.

I hope you can appreciate that folks differ in this regard and it doesn’t mean their (our) approach is inferior to yours.

 

This vintage of Zephyr is so close to being a Super 20. H.N. White was such a class manufacturer then.

 

Nice horn....Just keep playing. The 'experts' are experting for you. Background noise.

 

Thanks. I'm a teacher and one of my mentors once said to me "Academic disputes are so nasty because the stakes are so small." I think the same might apply here. Lots of players out there who probably have trouble making money and getting audiences so they feel empowered by criticizing other players. Jazz has always struck me as hyper competitive, one of the reasons I wasn't drawn to it. It's challenging music, yes, but people are so driven by the quest for perfection and technical skill that they forget to enjoy it.

 

nice case!

 

Yeah, I love the case! I have to try to find replacement latches that match.

 

Reminder: Be helpful. Constructive criticism is a good thing! I don’t see anyone being overtly nasty to the OP. That part is good.

Just cut out the personal squabbles between those commenting. Okay? (Rhetorical question.)

 

It's a new horn so it'll take a bit of time to get used to its quirks, and I noticed that even by the end of the recording the intonation got a lot better already, except for some of the lower notes. So you might just try a different MPC. But you should also check the key height which more than likely is going to be off.

Start with the C# and check whether the palm keys are in tune with it, and then work your way down. It's a bit of a trial and error but at least you appear to have a horn that "plays". The rest is adjustments - of yourself and the instrument.

Congrats to your purchase!

 

Thanks! Now this is a truly helpful comment. I noticed that the most difficult note was middle B. I haven't even begun to look at the key heights. And I noticed too that the pitch towards the end of the track was better. I'm not ashamed of how I sound here the very first time playing this horn, especially when I'm primarily a tenor player. So thanks for listening carefully and responding tactfully. It helped to restore my faith in this forum.

 

Good buy but I think in general that prices on vintage horns are dropping. I believe like vintage cars, the people who value them are an aging population who are more in the selling phase of their lives. I think prices will continue to drop on all things that are vintage or perceived as collectible.

 

Maybe so, but it is still impossible to find a deal on a Conn 10m. I've tried! It's funny, the Zephyr seems very modern to me. My main horn is a 1921 New Wonder.

 

Deleted by author.

 

@Danjocross ....you nailed it.

You got a STEAL. Not sure HOW that horn got under everyones radar unless it was a cheap BUy NOw that had only been listed for a few days. But if an open acution ?

Amazing.

The LAST of the sweet-serial-spot Zephs. Same body and neck tube as an S20, has the clooverleaf pinky table and rounded spat keys...very nice ergos on this one.

The horn and case alone, playing condition unknown, should have fetched $600 easy...in cleaned and serviced shape this is a $1200-1300 Alto.

Tonalin if not cracked - add another what ? $150-175 to it.

So you got $750 worth of hardware there for $250 + ship. Can't beat that.

You could literally get a $1g overhaul on it...and still walk away with having invested less than its market value. And even if it has issues my guess is probably $500 tops of tech work will make it absolutely POP.

Get the horn looked over by a tech, see what it needs. One of these NEEDS to be brought into full play shape to show what it's got under the hood. And it's got a LOT under the hood.

 

Thanks! Nice to have someone replying to the point of my post--what a steal! I can't imagine why no one else saw this. The auction closed at like 10 o'clock on a Tuesday morning. Maybe that was part of it. The seller didn't know much about saxes so they didn't sing the praises of this model. But still, I was so surprised. They also set a Buy It Now price of $350 and no one jumped on it. I checked for leaks today and found just a couple. I also added cork in a few places and oiled it up. Looking forward to playing it more.

 

Well @Mrblackbat actually has video evidence that he can play and even compose. Many of the people giving harsh comments on SOTW- not so much. There are exceptions but in general this is the trend. At least have a Soundcloud or YT channel or your locale and the bands or colleges you are affiliated with, not so much to confirm your cred but to actually benefit from your skill. You might be someone in the area that I could listen to in a gig.

 

Oh goodness, why do I pile on when enough has been said already? Because I come to this forum almost every day and I absolutely hate the way some people feel the need to bust other folks's chops. Just because it's the internet and you are hiding behind a cute name doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful how you speak type. If you wouldn't say what you have to say to a person's face, then don't type it here.

Enough of that.

@Danjocross posted about a killer deal he got, posted some nice pictures and a video of the new horn with him playing it. And people came and told him what a horrible player he was, and then some other people came on a said why did you say that, and the whole thing turned into the typical social media crap fest. Fie on you all.

Dan, I listened to your track. You have a nice tone. I then watched your other track on YouTube about your journey into jazz. Just the first tune, the ubiquitous Autumn Leaves. Love the story about your wife's father, BTW, I would have liked to meet him too.

You didn't ask for criticism of your playing, you were just sharing how lucky you were to find this horn, and as @JayeLID said, you got a smokin' deal.

Your other track you did ask for comments, so I will make a couple. But dude, you have a great horn and a great attitude and what a wonderful world we live in where ordinary cats can make music and have fun doing it.

If there are some local people that give lessons, maybe take a few. Go hear them play first You do need some work on sound production, and some work on jazz styles, and some work on music in general. But what the hell, I'm a retired pro and I need work on the same things. That's the great thing about art, there is no end. There's always something to work on. Just keep on doing it man, keep the faith. We need more people like you in the world.

 

… people came and told him what a horrible player he was,

This would indeed be a terrible thing if it were true. But it’s not. People made observations and provided suggestions to remedy.

Folks are now indulging in critical rants against these comments without any sense of irony. What a lot of childish hand-wringing I’m seeing here.

If someone cannot observe that the OPs clip was out of tune without having people jumping down their necks and building bs straw man arguments, let’s all just hold handle and sing kumbaya.

 

Nice deal, enjoy the horn!

There's some nice tone in there and some nice flowing lines - a bit more work on breath support would add some fullness in the higher register as others have suggested. Regarding the intonation, I've heard plenty worse! The drone suggestions will help - I'd also say that if you want a break from those, practicing a ballad, or something that holds longer tones than the faster lines you were playing here would be another way to get used to listening to the intonation and helping you get used to pitching your new horn.

I see constructive criticism of people's recordings/performances as needing:

1. An explanation of what could be improved - nip problems in the bud.
2. A suggestion of how to improve it - give the player some tools to fix the issues
3. Highlighting one or more positive aspects of the playing - because criticism with zero encouragement or praise doesn't encourage people to continue with learning music.

This is what worked for me when I taught clarinet, so I try to apply it here. Keep going on the new horn and I think you'll see big improvements as you get more used to it. Would be great to hear another recording in a few months, if you haven't been put off by some of the other comments.

 

Thanks. I'm a teacher…

Respect. That’s a hard job to do well.

Jazz has always struck me as hyper competitive, one of the reasons I wasn't drawn to it. It's challenging music, yes, but people are so driven by the quest for perfection and technical skill that they forget to enjoy it.

FWIW, I played with the same big band for 20 years. It was a mix of music teachers and professional musicians that loved playing together. Yes, we strove to be our best, but we enjoyed doing it, else that band would not have lasted as long as it has. May you find a similar experience in jazz. Enjoy the path.

 

What a beaut! One of my teachers plays a King, thanks to her former band leader. If I ever go "modern" (from my late '20s Martin alto) I will be looking for a King.

 

I'm pretty addicted to prowling auction sites online looking for saxophones and accessories. I've bought horns from Goodwill online, HiBid, LiveAuctioneers, Buya marketplace, Invaluable.com, and, of course, eBay.

I've found that some of these sites are quite overpriced, especially Goodwill. People think they must be getting a good deal buying a saxophone from a thrift store, online or not, but I rarely see great deals there. Same with eBay. Lots of overpriced horns on there, especially the good ones.

But last week I got an inexplicably great deal on eBay--a 1960 King Zephyr Alto. $250 with free shipping! I was the only bidder. ***? I expected it to have problems, but the pads in the photos looked okay and I only saw a couple small dents on the body, so I figured it was worth the risk.

It arrived today and OMG. I didn't even check for leaks or clean it up (it needs that for sure) but it just sings! I have a couple other altos (a Martin Troubadour and a Malerne Acme) but I had so much trouble playing in tune with both of them (I usually play tenor). The Zephyr sounds good even in the high upper register.

I tried it first with a King mouthpiece that came with it, and it worked well, but when I switched to a vintage Tonalin, wow! What a joy to play. Here's a recording of my first trial of the horn with the Tonalin mouthpiece.

The seller wrote me and said she didn't mention the case in the listing because the hinges don't latch so she didn't think it had any value. But look how pretty it is! The original King case, and even a really cool vintage King neck strap!

I can't get over this deal! I recently bought a Martin Imperial Tenor from HiBid, and they charged a 20% "buyer's premium" (? just like bogus Ticket Master or AirBnB fees!). Then, I had to deal with UPS for shipping and they charged me $280! $80 of that was for "packing" even though the horn was already in a case. So $80 for a cardboard box!). My actual bid in the auction wasn't bad, but after those other fees, I totally overpaid.

So--$250 for this Zephyr with free shipping (which took only 3 days). How do you explain that? View attachment 216923
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I never even thought to check Goodwill!
I troll Google, Reverb, Sweetwater, and eBay, and I've found some great stuff, but it ain't cheap! It is "cheap-adjacent."
I recently got a 1925 CG Conn gold-plated bari sax in near-mint condition for what I consider cheap: $5300. Selmer Mark VIs or SBAs from the olden days still go for as much as $23,000!
Definitely some great deals out there if you know where to look!

 

OMG, what a beauty. I've seen a few gold plated Conns go by, but never a bari. I've bid on a few too, and some gold and silver ones, but my limit is much lower than some people's. The most I ever paid was $750 for an immaculate 1952 King Zephyr tenor.