I recently played a C1 silver plate, C1 brass and a C1 sterling silver and the sterling silver was indeed heavier than the brass neck. Yamaha doesn’t publish their neck weights, but feel wise the sterling felt heavier.

You might consider going to a music store and bringing a food grade scale with you to weigh the brass and sterling neck separately if that’s an option for you.

 

You have to weigh them to know the actual weights. You cannot just assume Sheesh.

 

To estimate, use the density ratio of sterling silver (~ 10.36 g/cm³) to yellow brass (~ 8.47 g/cm³):
10.36 / 8.47 = 1.22

To have the same weight, the brass neck should have ca. 22% greater volume.

Use the Archimedes method (drop the neck into container filled to brim with water, measure the weight or volume of displaced water).

You can also weasure the weight of displaced water (Wd) indirectly, by measuring the weight of the neck (Wn), the weight of container filled to brim with water (Wc), and the weight of the same container filled to brim after the neck has been fully submerged into water (Wnc):

Wd = Wn + Wc - Wnc

The value to compare for two necks would be the ratio Wn/Wd (1, for silver; 2, for brass).

If Wn1/Wd1 = Wn2/Wd2, the experiment cannot detect the difference in densities of the necks.

If Wn1/Wd2 > Wn2/Wd2, the silver neck density is higher. The question is then, how much higher is the density. In principle, their ratio should be close to

(Wn1/Wd2) / (Wn2/Wd2) ~ 1.22

Repeat the experiment several times and send us the table of results. Small differences can be properly evaluated by consistent experimental procedure, removal of sources of external error, using accurate measuring instruments, calibration of measuring instruments, and carrying out multiple experiments.

Each neck would need to be dried inside and out before repeating the experiment.

Filling the container accurately to the brim can be achieved better by pipetting out the excess water, submerging the neck, and then adding water drop by drop until the water is visually in line with the container top edge. This will prevent water from spilling out of the container onto the scales, which would then require drying the outside of the container and of the scales table.

If Wd is identical for both necks, and Wn is also identical, this would point to deceptive marketing (at best, the purported neck could be silver plated). Further analysis then could be done by visiting a jeweler or a lab with access to Xray fluorescence (XRF) equipment.

http://www.hauserandmiller.com/reference/melting.html

A Detailed Insight on Brass Density & How it Compares to Other Metals - KDM Fabrication

In this article, we will explore critical factors on density of brass. Furthermore, we will also compare density of metals to brass. With this information, it will be easier for you to decide whether you can use brass for your application or not. Let’s dive right in: What is the […]

kdmfab.com

 

It should be heavier IF the volume of metal is the same. Are the two tubes of the same wall thickness?

 

튜브의
[/인용하다]
엘o

of

Looks like same

 

That doesn’t count.

Does it have a silver-colored tenon or brass? A solid silver neck will usually have a brass tenon. A plated neck will usually have the same finish on the tenon.

 

Not any proper proof, of course (especially if this is some kind of fake/scam), but the Yamaha solid silver necks usually come with gold laquered (or is it gold plated?) octave mech and the silver plated ones with silver plated mech.

Images online show the silver plated Yamaha necks with non-plated brass tenons.

 

That's why I'm asking for an official Yamaha answer. I don't know if they'll answer, but... I've personally compared the Martin brass neck and sterling silver neck before. There was a clear difference in weight, and there was a huge difference when I actually blew it. However, this Sterling v1 Yamaha neck was different from g1, but it didn't feel as overwhelming as Martin's. Just the difference between the v1 and g1 necks

 

That's why I'm asking for an official Yamaha answer. I don't know if they'll answer, but... I've personally compared the Martin brass neck and sterling silver neck before. There was a clear difference in weight, and there was a huge difference when I actually blew it.

Different geometry. Different tubing thickness. Martin vs Yamaha…

Remove the neck cork and scratch the tube. Or drill a hole in it to see if the shavings are brass or silver.

Or just send it back if it doesn’t meet your expectations. That seems to be the greater issue.

 

I dont recall my silver selmer neck being any heavier and I also would bet the metal is thinner. Its likely those issues that lead players to notice a difference in sound. That and makers are more careful with expensive material. The whole silver mouthpiece thing is a joke. Necks and horn a little less.

 

Is your Selma neck sterling silver?

 

Frankly, I don't understand the usefulness of knowing the weight of a neck. I would be more interested in how it sounds...

 

Don't you need to know if this is a V1 neck or a real Sterling V1 neck? I bought it for a lot of money

 

Amazon could be your friend...

 

As I had nothing else to do, I have weighed my silver plate and lacquered V1 Alto necks.

Silver plate. 120g
Lacquered. 119g
The temperature is 19°C or 66°F. Amazon's 281g could include packaging, one might presume?

 

According to the "Comparative Weights Chart", sterling silver weighs 1.228 times more than brass.
Therefore, a silver neck should weigh approximately 146 gr, minus some gr because the tenon is still made of brass.

So it is possible that, unfortunately, the OP has been scammed.

Yamaha, for some reason, does not put any mark on solid silver necks (as Yanagisawa does), which I find to be a significant oversight, frankly.

 

According to the "Comparative Weights Chart", sterling silver weighs 1.228 times more than brass.
Therefore, a silver neck should weigh approximately 146 gr, minus some gr because the tenon is still made of brass.

So it is possible that, unfortunately, the OP has been scammed.

Yamaha, for some reason, does not put any mark on solid silver necks (as Yanagisawa does), which I find to be a significant oversight, frankly.

Please note that the direct comparison of mass depends on the assumption that the silver tube is exactly the same thickness as the brass.

@etc-etc Yes, my suggestion of scraping the tube underneath the cork area is “destructive”. That region is commonly scrapped when the old adhesive is removed and it is covered by the replacement cork. I think it is a legitimate course of action in this instance as I see no other definitive alternative that the OP will accept.

@Zidan27 If there is no appreciable difference in response - regardless of material, I suggest you just send it back. FWIW, I, too, have chased necks in search of the ultimate setup, and I, too, learned that some necks are better than others, and that sometimes the original neck is as good as it gets.

 

I have no weights at hand but a link to a shop that has pictures of silver coated vs solid. The octave key of the solid ag neck is gold lacquered vs silver coated on the coated neck, as is the front plate of the neck.

Yamaha necks

 

Octave keys can be removed with a small screwdriver. Tenon, brace, and key mounting posts are a more likely indicator, as I described a post or two before this.

 

@Dr G I think the thickness is the same for all no matter what material is used.
I don't think they make the solid silver one thinner to make it weigh the same as the brass one.

 

They may not do it on purpose to make it weigh the same, but the thickness may be a factor of how the sheet material is produced. The brass and silver sheet materials are likely made on different production lines, perhaps even sourced from different vendors.

 

I have no direct experience with solid silver necks. With that disclaimer:

• as others said, the fittings on the silver neck are different from a plated neck
• you could take it to a jeweler's shop, they must deal with determining metals all the time.
• you could estimate the density by using the weight and water displacement as etc-etc outlined. You would need two similar necks to do this and to do it fairly accurately. The ratio in weights is only near the ratio of say 0.7mm vs 0.8mm sheet stock.

Last, people say that silver and brass have a different ring to them when struck. I have never tried this, but people in the collectible-coin business care about that for obvious reasons, so you can find videos of the different sounds.

 

Maybe @bombshell can jump in here and tell us the weight of the one he has for sale!

 

Yamaha talks about different types of neck taper. I would be very surprised if the thickness of the metal also differed from model to model (I would say definitely not).

Yamaha Saxophone Neck Comparison - Yamaha - Music - Australia

au.yamaha.com

 

Yamaha talks about different types of neck taper. I would be very surprised if the thickness of the metal also differed from model to model (I would say definitely not).

I agree that brass sheet of the same composition would remain the same between geometries. We don’t know the thickness of the silver sheet metal.

 

Was this purchased from a reputable, reliable source? If yes, then chances are very high that the neck weighs what it's supposed to weigh.

The Presto Music Web site lists weights for Yamaha alto necks at .3 kg regardless of material or finish. Amazon reports the weight of a V1 unlacquered alto neck as 8 oz which is 227 grams. Those reported weights appear to include the Yamaha packaging weight. The Bax Music Web site says this about the solid silver V1: "Weight (incl. packaging) 240 gr."

My older V1 unlacquered neck weighs 111 grams. My G1 lacquered neck weighs 116 grams. The older Yamaha box that my V1 came in weighs 111 grams, so my V1 neck and its box weigh 222 grams. Your solid silver V1 and my older box would weigh 226 grams. That's in the ballpark with what the Bax Music Web site says about the 240 grams weight of your solid silver neck in a current box.

I believe a courteous e-mail to Yamaha or to some major Yamaha dealers, explaining your concern and requesting a neck-only weight, would be a reasonable course of action.

OP, It's not clear from your posts if your concern is about whether or not your neck is genuine, or about whether a Yamaha solid silver neck can produce any benefit if it's not significantly heavier than necks in the other material and finishes. It may be that weight is not a useful measure for addressing either concern.

 

The weight of the v1 solid silver neck I bought was 115g. The brass g1 was 115g too. Silver should be much heavier, but the weight of the v1 neck and g1 are the same. Then I suspect it might not be sterling silver

 

This could be a strong contender for the Dumbest Thread of the Year Award.

 

You must have missed the other contenders. This hardly stands in contention for the month - and we’re only halfway in.

 

For a more accurate weighing, you could remove the octave keys...

I don't know where you bought your neck, I was also looking for a V1 neck (even not in ss), but because of this (which I still doubt is original), I think I'll get a new one from a reliable store instead.

 

For a more accurate weighing, you could remove the octave keys...

The next question from OP will be where to get a replacement screw.

 

I’m curious, does the sterling silver neck differentiate itself from silver plate with a designation stamp?

 

Visually, they’re differentiated by the octave mech. Pure silver has the gold coloured mech. Silver plated is all silver.

A silly choice IMO

 

All the following things contribute to the total weight of a sax neck assembly, and together will weigh a lot more than the tube, so variation in the following list will be more important:

Cork
Tenon (brass)
key (brass)
key spring
and mounting posts for key
key axle
Brace


So remove all of these (you'll need a torch) from the silver neck and the brass neck, and weigh the bare piece of tubing.

 

So remove all of these (you'll need a torch) from the silver neck and the brass neck, and weigh the bare piece of tubing.

Upon reassembly, this might not play as it did before.

 

Take it to a coin shop and ask them put it in the XRF analyzer. It is an almost instantaneous process and will report the composition to high precision.

 

You know, oddly enough, no one's ever questioned whether my Mexi-Conn tenor is made of brass or not.

Just sayin'.

 

Is it?

 

The neck came from a reliable place. However, due to the material features, sterling silver should be heavier than brass. However, there is no weight difference between v1 silver plate neck and v1 sterling silver. This is weird. Could it not be sterling silver?

 

Your answer is in post #44. Take everything off the neck tubes (as I noted already, you'll need a torch) and then you can weigh the two parts (brass and silver) in a meaningful way.

Of course, the wall thicknesses of the two tubes could be different, so you'll need to measure this as well.

 

Frankly, if all the parts fixedly attached to the neck tube (Tenon, brace, and key mounting posts) are unplated brass, it's likely the tube's solid silver. If those parts are silver plated, then it's most likely the tube's plated too. While it would be possible to take a plated tube and solder brass parts on, and then do a final polish and lacquer the whole assembly, and while it would be possible to take a sterling tube, mount the brass fittings and then silver plate the whole thing, from everything I've read no one does either of these.

If it were me, I'd play the thing, determine if I like it, and if I do, keep it, and if I don't, sell it on.