[gsmsax1011]

hey again,
i know this is alittle ridiculous with a new horn every night but i wanted to hear opinions on different horns.
is 411365 too high of a serial number for a king zephyr?
its from '66 i would presume
is this horn as great as the ones from the 30s and 40s were?

 

[SAXISMYAXE]

Hi Gsmsax,

Please be careful where you post your inquiries, I have had to move a few of yours. Since this is an inquiry about King model horns, it obviously goes in the H.N. White "King" forum, and I have moved it there. More generic questions about the tenor sax go in the Bflat Tenor forum for example.

This is a bit late for the Zephyr model, and by this time it was relegated to Student horn status both in catalog listing, build quality and in watered down features etc.

Zephyrs from the late 40's and early 50's are actually better than the earlier models in my opinion. They share many of the Super 20 features and overall sound.

Try the horn out if you can anyway, you might end up liking it.

 

[shmuelyosef]

I agree that the SN range from ~250xxx to ~300xxx are the best all around horns

 

[Jazz Is All]

This is a bit late for the Zephyr model, and by this time it was relegated to Student horn status both in catalog listing, build quality and in watered down features etc.

I can understand all that but then why would Saxquest be bidding on a Zephyr #433xxx as they are now? Is there something I don't understand about vintage horns and horn-trading?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-King-Ze...ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

I was thinking of trying for this until I read these threads where people seem to say it isn't that good. Then again as a restarting late-bloomer it might be a good horn for me. I'm not even an intermediate player. But I read elsewhere that intonation is a problem on these ones, and my Kessler Solist chinese alto is pretty much on the money up and down. I've been looking at older Bueschers, Conns, and Kings with the thought of picking up a better horn at a decent price. This might just be the beginning of GAS or brand-embarrasment (not much cachet in saying you play a Chinese alto) but whatever the reason I would want an easily playable horn with a great sound no matter how chic the name. No point spending anything if not, right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-King-Ze...ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

 

[littlemanbighorn]

If you can get these horns for cheap they are more than worth it. I've played some Zephyrs and Clevelands around this age that sounded great. The keywork was a little clunky but completely workable. If it goes for less than $600 someone will get a great deal.

 

[Swingtone]

I agree that the SN range from ~250xxx to ~300xxx are the best all around horns

I agree that there would be many, many fine horns in this range, but your chosen range is kind of perplexing to me, considering that around 272,xxx the Zephyr became almost a clone of the Super 20 with the same bell and all (except for the necks; the Zephyr's was overslung); whereas from 250,xxx until that number it had the slimmer pre-war Zephyr bell. In some ways I'm splitting hairs here, as any Zephyr made between around 1937 and 1957 can be a fabulous horn (and even those made after that aren't bad, at least up until the move to Eastlake).

I am speaking from a fair amount of experience, as I have owned no less than six Zephyr tenors from that 20-year period (1937, 1945, 1952, 1954, 1956 (two examples from that year that Elvis took the world by storm ) and have played about half a dozen others in some fine vintage sax shops. My conclusion: My current 1956 tenor outplays them all (though the 1937 example had a beautiful haunting tone). The '56 is fatter and louder than the '37, but still warm, full and smooth across the registers like all great King's are. Plus the intonation is nearly spot-on, something that is harder to find on many American horns made prior to the mid 50's. I don't know what happened as far as technology around that time, but folks (e.g. Bootman) talk about the intonation on Martin's dramatically improving around 1955 or '56 as well. In short, this horn is the best King I have ever owned and plays better than a Super 20 I used to own.

There are some that say there is a clear demarcation in the "mid 50's" in which the Zephyr took a nose-dive in quality. This is yet another example of how one statement made by a guy who made a website with pictures of saxes on it can be repeated over and over again and eventually be accepted as fact. In reality, if you check the official H.N. White website, you will see that the Zephyr didn't really become a "student" horn (if in fact that's what it would be called when compared to the cheap stuff coming out of the Far East today) until 1958, when the double-socket neck was eliminated and some other aspects may have been cheapened as well. My '56 still has the double-sleeve neck and is a heavy, durable horn with relatively smooth, quiet keywork.

Good luck in your search! If you are big guy like me (6'3" with 37" sleeves and big hands, you will find the King's are more comfortable ergonomically than any other vintage horn). They just feel good in the hands.

 

[Swingtone]

To answer your original question, that 411,xxx would be a very late H.N. White Zephyr (just prior to the move to Eastlake at 42x,xxx), so it could be a great horn. It might just be a little brasher and brighter than the 1940s and 50s examples, which were like smooth jazz machines. A lot of folks think that the King horns from the mid to late 60's, though still great for jazz, were more suited to rock.

 

[Jazz Is All]

thanks for the info from both of you.

 

[shmuelyosef]

I can understand all that but then why would Saxquest be bidding on a Zephyr #433xxx as they are now? Is there something I don't understand about vintage horns and horn-trading?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-King-Ze...ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-King-Ze...ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

These make great rental altos, as they have a fine sound and are very rugged. If you get them for $200-300 and do a quick PC, they are great for grade school kids.

 

[kryz]

Imho thats an awesome horn.
I own a tenor... awesome horn...

 

[NissanVintageSax]

I just bought one off of e-bay for $177 w/no neck. Ordered a Gloger for it. All it needs is a few corks, and couple bell guard screws. Other than that, a flawless sax. It's already an upgrade from my Black Laquer Amati (which has a Keilwerth type sound, but chinese type keywork--ie, slow action). The King's action is as fast as a Yanagisawa. When I get the neck in, it should be teh last horn I ever buy (unless I find a The Martin for cheap ).

 

[Jazz Is All]

These make great rental altos, as they have a fine sound and are very rugged. If you get them for $200-300 and do a quick PC, they are great for grade school kids.

What about intermediate level adults? And excuse my ignorance, but what is PC?

Anyway it's at $422 now, so I think I'm out unless this is still really a steal at 5 bills. But it isn't a dealer, so who knows what it is really like and the photos don't show much so maybe that's too much for this horn? 30 minutes to go so probably will close at $500 or so.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200184148706&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

 

[Jazz Is All]

Well I stayed in until $450 against my previous better judgement and actually thought I had it won in the last second. I figured for that price even if it needed some work, the Berg Larsen piece and the case were worth something too. But then someone raised it right up to $561 and got it. Either I had it's value figured wrong, or people just get into a bidding frenzy and forget the hand they are betting on. :|

 

[shmuelyosef]

What about intermediate level adults? And excuse my ignorance, but what is PC?

PC is short for a 'Playing Condition' mini-service that shops perform to put horns into "playing condition" without excessive pad replacement or a full teardown and lubrication...it's common terminology out here, maybe not universal.

...and yes, these are pretty good horns generally, only limitation is the keywork, which can be setup fast, but still awkward for most folks...

 

[NissanVintageSax]

Got my Gloger in for my Zephyr a couple months ago. Very under rated sax. The action is far superior to any "student model" I've ever owned or played, and even outplays some "Pro" saxes. I happy w/my purchase. At a finished price of less $950 for a great sounding and feeling sax, I play this one exclusively. My Amati collects dust. It had a slow and clunky action, and stocky kys. This has neither.