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In answer to my own question posed yesterday, "WHICH ZEPHYR", I offer the following.

I have 4 King tenors, 228,xxx '39-'40(which I have concluded is a ZS), 276,xxx a Zeph made in '46, 402,xxx a late Cleveland Zeph made in 1965, and 411,xxx, an S20, also a late Cleveland instrument of the same vintage.

The following measurements are by micrometer: diameter of throat=27.88mm; body tube just above join with bell= 6.07 cm.; bell just above join with bow=7.2cm. for Zs, 7.1 cm. for S20 (this 1 mm is likely simply my error in measurement); bell flare= 15.2 cm. for '40 and '46 Zs, and 15.7 cm. for S20, and later Z. They are the same for all save as noted!!

My conclusion: At least for the instruments measured, the ONLY DIFFERENCE IN THE PHYSICAL DIMENSIONS IS THE TRIVIAL DIFFERENCE IN BELL FLARE. The necks may be, and are different ( save the ZS and '46 Z which are both double socket, the former sterling, the latter brass and are interchangeable).

Hope this adds some fuel to the debate.

Regards to all.

Stuart
 

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In answer to my own question posed yesterday, "WHICH ZEPHYR", I offer the following.

I have 4 King tenors, 228,xxx '39-'40(which I have concluded is a ZS), 276,xxx a Zeph made in '46, 402,xxx a late Cleveland Zeph made in 1965, and 411,xxx, an S20, also a late Cleveland instrument of the same vintage.

The following measurements are by micrometer: diameter of throat=27.88mm; body tube just above join with bell= 6.07 cm.; bell just above join with bow=7.2cm. for Zs, 7.1 cm. for S20 (this 1 mm is likely simply my error in measurement); bell flare= 15.2 cm. for '40 and '46 Zs, and 15.7 cm. for S20, and later Z. They are the same for all save as noted!!

My conclusion: At least for the instruments measured, the ONLY DIFFERENCE IN THE PHYSICAL DIMENSIONS IS THE TRIVIAL DIFFERENCE IN BELL FLARE. The necks may be, and are different ( save the ZS and '46 Z which are both double socket, the former sterling, the latter brass and are interchangeable).

Hope this adds some fuel to the debate.

Regards to all.

Stuart
I've measured a few tenor S20s and Zs of various vintages (40s-70s) and noted similar results.

IMO, at least as important a question is, do you hear distinct differences in sound between them? Does a listener hear any distinct differences in the various horns?

If so, how would you characterize those differences. Does it seem that by swapping the necks, any horn sounds like any other?

FWIW, I've done limited "testing" myself but I've been waiting for other's research before I posit my opinions...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, Xax.

My favorite is the ZS, but it is not really for the sound, but the feel. Strangely, after reading all the posts about the S20, it is my least favorite. IMO all the Kings sound about the same. I don't believe that the composition of the neck (or the bell metal) makes any significant difference. Let's be realistic, even dismounting your mpc/reed and remounting it on the same neck can make a difference, probably one of the same magnitude as slight differences in resonance of neck, bell material, etc. Certainly different mpc/reed combinations do.
 
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