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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey folks,

I've been lurking around the boards for years on and off - right now I've got the sax bug again and am getting myself back into playing - I'd consider myself a semi-pro at my best, and I've come to terms that I've got too much going on that I'll never be a pure "chops" guy. But that doesn't mean sax can't be a regular part of my life!

After reading a bunch of threads about creating an 82z-lite from a Yamaha 23 horn and G1 neck, I decided to check it out and see what the buzz is all about.

After stalking ebay for a few weeks, I was able to get a used YTS23 and a used gold plated G1 neck, both from ebay.

View attachment 38236

I wanted to address the big issue of using the G1 neck on this horn. The loop on the neck leading to the octave vent doesn't hook down far enough to reach the octave mechanism of the 21/23/52/original 62 series, and perhaps others. I've seen a number of folks here talk about using straws or heat shrink tube, but there apparently are no documented photos of this solution on the internet!

So here goes! I used a 100% standard clear plastic straw from a restaurant.
I made 2 pieces, trimmed long enough to reach the G1 octave loop.
I then cut 1 piece in lengthwise and wrapped that around the stem of the octave mechanism.
Lastly, I put the other piece around the whole thing. Nice snug fit, stiffer than just the unreinforced straw.
(At this point you can trim the length of the two straws even more to more perfectly match the height of the loop.)

Light Liquid Musical instrument Gold Wood


Worked like a charm, or so I thought. My G key sometimes gets stuck down in the upper register. It could be for one of 3 reasons:
1) the spring on the G1 neck is significantly stiffer than the relatively loose spring on the YTS23 stock neck
2) the spring (pin) that keeps the G key up is a bit worn down or simply not that springy - not really if this is just how it is on the 23, but it's certainly not as stiff as the pins on my pro horns
3) the straw extension/angle interacts with 1 & 2 in just the wrong way... accentuating the 2 mis-matched springs

Anyone else have this problem - or have any solutions? I'll play with it more tomorrow - I had only about 30 minutes to fiddle around.

My initial reaction of the G1 neck tone was that it felt quite lively. The stock neck sounded good, just not that "wow" sensation.

Anyway, more over the next couple of days/weeks while I wrap my head around this project horn.
 

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So basically the combination of a YTS-23 and a G1 neck make a cheaper
version of an 82-Z? I'm quite intrigued as that is my dream horn...
 

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Hey folks,

I've been lurking around the boards for years on and off - right now I've got the sax bug again and am getting myself back into playing - I'd consider myself a semi-pro at my best, and I've come to terms that I've got too much going on that I'll never be a pure "chops" guy. But that doesn't mean sax can't be a regular part of my life!

After reading a bunch of threads about creating an 82z-lite from a Yamaha 23 horn and G1 neck, I decided to check it out and see what the buzz is all about.

After stalking ebay for a few weeks, I was able to get a used YTS23 and a used gold plated G1 neck, both from ebay.

View attachment 38236

I wanted to address the big issue of using the G1 neck on this horn. The loop on the neck leading to the octave vent doesn't hook down far enough to reach the octave mechanism of the 21/23/52/original 62 series, and perhaps others. I've seen a number of folks here talk about using straws or heat shrink tube, but there apparently are no documented photos of this solution on the internet!

So here goes! I used a 100% standard clear plastic straw from a restaurant.
I made 2 pieces, trimmed long enough to reach the G1 octave loop.
I then cut 1 piece in lengthwise and wrapped that around the stem of the octave mechanism.
Lastly, I put the other piece around the whole thing. Nice snug fit, stiffer than just the unreinforced straw.
(At this point you can trim the length of the two straws even more to more perfectly match the height of the loop.)

View attachment 38237

Worked like a charm, or so I thought. My G key sometimes gets stuck down in the upper register. It could be for one of 3 reasons:
1) the spring on the G1 neck is significantly stiffer than the relatively loose spring on the YTS23 stock neck
2) the spring (pin) that keeps the G key up is a bit worn down or simply not that springy - not really if this is just how it is on the 23, but it's certainly not as stiff as the pins on my pro horns
3) the straw extension/angle interacts with 1 & 2 in just the wrong way... accentuating the 2 mis-matched springs

Anyone else have this problem - or have any solutions? I'll play with it more tomorrow - I had only about 30 minutes to fiddle around.

My initial reaction of the G1 neck tone was that it felt quite lively. The stock neck sounded good, just not that "wow" sensation.

Anyway, more over the next couple of days/weeks while I wrap my head around this project horn.
I have found the ideal solution using a plastic 6mm raw plug, it is also easily detachable , so if you want to replace the original neck. Also very sturdy, would last the life of the instrument.
If you would like details ?
 

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I have an older 62 with a gold plated G1 neck and a 23 with a regular g1 neck and love the setup! It's amazing how much difference it makes to the 23! I just bent the octave mechanism on the neck down carefully and adjusted it to fit for each horn. It's a pretty easy job. I never liked the whole straw idea, but that's just me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
@stingray3: bending it is my last resort... do you have any of my issues with the G key getting stuck down from the tension of the octave key spring?

@Hamish:
I'm interested in hearing more detail about the raw plug solution - can you send a link to a store with these so I know what to look for?

@MazeofMystery:
There are lots of interesting stories about how putting Yamaha's "after market" G1 neck on other Yamaha horns (including the YTS23) gives them the 82z sound. I was on the cusp of getting a G1 or V1 neck for my YAS62 (20+ year old purple logo model), but ended up finding this complete tenor set up for a little more.

Now I need to hunt down a Yamaha 82z tenor to do a side by side comparison.

The quick verdict definitely is that yes, it definitely makes a difference in how the instrument sounds, and to some extent, how it feels. The responsiveness is subtly difference. I haven't been an avid player for the past decade (after studying jazz sax in college), but this has gotten me interested in practicing and playing a bit more. Let's see where this takes me. :)

I would say immediately that getting a new neck gives you a new toy that will make you want to practice like a neophyte again. Go for it. I've seen 'em go for as little as $150 for an alto neck, maybe $200 for a tenor neck. Not a huge investment - and if it doesn't work, sell it again... and continue with the obsession of getting an 82z. :)

What it won't do however is give your horn magically the fit & finish of a pro Yamaha (or pro horn):

* plastic pearls - though a full set of 8 authentic "premium" abalone pearls (including the bis key) would run $30 here, with 10 minutes to replace 'em http://www.musicmedic.com/catalog/products/part-p150.html
* stiffer (faster) "blue" springs (cheap for the parts, but not so trivial to replace)
* the brass will never be as thick (though the benefit is the YAS23 is lighter to carry vs the 82z)
* No high F# key, though to be honest, I like playing it with my alternate fingering - the tone sounds more even with the rest of the notes anyway
* the tone holes will never be as refined... that is, unless you spend a ton for a tech to level 'em with precision

The biggest thing would be getting the springs upgraded - that'd give you a lot of the feel.

But that's my 2-cents. Somewhere there's a pro tech laughing at me.
 

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@ secretasinman999
Give me a few hrs & I will do some pics for you ( when I get off the iPad and on to the desktop)
 

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@ secretasianman999

I think the pics say it all. Anyway you just cut the rawplug, as shown in the pics {poss you call them something else in the US, its a plastic insert that is used in a hole before you insert the screw} Make sure the size fits the octave spindle, for my 62 its 6mm. The shape at the top of the rawplug is such that when you turn it on the spindle, it will give you the exact position, for opening the top thing.

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=38303&d=1348246580

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=38304&d=1348246604

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=38305&d=1348246630

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=38306&d=1348246658

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=38307&d=1348246681
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Cool stuff. I've been sticking with the straw extension. I had it checked out with KBsax (top notch repair guy in NYC), and he thought it was sturdy. He made some adjustments to the G1 neck spring tension so that it would allow the octave vents to open/close neatly.

A couple of weeks ago I got the tenor horn adjusted to play in tip top shape. A leak light exposed a bunch of pinhole leaks, so I had a few pads replaced and others reseated. Now the horn plays like a beast with both the standard neck the G1 GP custom.

The stock neck is extremely freeblowing and easy to get a sound out. It almost wants to play itself. Sound explodes out of the horn with both a Bilger HR mouthpiece and a Guardala King.

Back to the G1: Not sure how to articulate this, but the sound just feels richer, fuller. It might have a touch more resistance vs the stock. It's not miles apart in terms of sound, but to the player it just feels better. I'm planning on doing some recording in the next couple of days - might just record some heads straight off sheet music so I play the same thing on both necks. I'm curious if I'd be able to discern the difference as purely a listener.
 

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When I was playing alto, I tested out a G1 neck on a Yas-23 (alto). In short, the G1 neck makes the horn "Z-like", as it gives a similar free-blowing nature and buzz akin to the 82z series. However, since I have played an 82z as well, I call a Yas-23 with the G1 neck "Z-like" but definitely "no Z." The 23 series are excellent, solid horns, but from my experience, the 82z is simply a masterpiece.
 
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