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I am having problems with my octave key (the one at the top of the main body tube). When I release the G key (with the octave key depressed), the neck octave key opens fine, but the "other" octave key does not close all the way. When I force it closed, the quality of the upper register improves dramatically. I think the spring on the G key linkage is not strong enough to completely close the "other" octave key. The horn is only a couple years old, but I have been having problems with the horn since I bought it, and, the upper and lower registers have never really been in tune with each other. Is there an adjustment, is there more than (just) one spring, is there a stronger spring I can put on to make the key(s) close all the way? HELP!!!!!
 

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The problem you are experiencing is the most common problem with YAS/YTS52 and 62 models we see in our shop. If it is what I suspect, this will need an experienced tech to resolve, and should not be tried by anyone other. Not overly difficult for the experienced tech, but these can try your patience, even while being experienced. Basically the hinge tubing on the keys in the body octave mechanism are soft, and are all contained by a 4" long rod screw. This can often be bent due to a knock, but most likely either the neck octave key shift lever, or the thumb spatula have been bent, and the result is any of the 4 keys in the linkage being bound singly or in combination. Non-use of the end-plug while in it's case is often the culprit with younger players.

I know that if you call John Deavers or Tony Hawks at Driscoll Music (unless you have a preferred tech to handle this for you) they can help you. I think they are in Lorain.

Best of luck to you and the 62.
 

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It has also got a lot to do with the friction wherever two surfaces rub, and there are many involved in that octave mechanism. For just one of many examples, there really should be Teflon on the surface of the G key cork, which in turn should not be a material that significantly dents with use.

If the friction is too high, then springs cannot do their job.

A straightforward fix for a good technician, but not a good area for an amateur to mess around with.
 

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In all 8ve mechanisms, Yamaha included I prefer to use compressed felt or ultrasuede on the LH3 key linkage for silence, and also for it's low friction properties (instead of cork or rubco/hycotex/tech cork that seems to be used by most makers - though Yamaha do use felt on their Custom models), as well as a cork pad in the lower 8ve pad cup to prevent it sticking so the changeover between 8ve vents happens much faster.
 

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My usual is high grade composite cork (brands in previous post) lubricated with Teflon powder rubbed in, or Krauss synthetic felt (superb silencing and firmness) laminated over with Teflon sheet for unsurpassed slipperiness.
 

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Gordon (NZ) said:
My usual is high grade composite cork (brands in previous post) lubricated with Teflon powder rubbed in, or Krauss synthetic felt (superb silencing and firmness) laminated over with Teflon sheet for unsurpassed slipperiness.
What adhesive do you use to attach the teflon sheet to the felt? Is it the same contact adhesive you mentioned in a previous thread that dries very quickly?
 

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Teflon sheet has an adhesive on one side, so you peel off the backing paper and it's ready to use.
 

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Chris Peryagh said:
Teflon sheet has an adhesive on one side, so you peel off the backing paper and it's ready to use.
There are a couple of types of sheet PTFE/teflon available. In our shop we have found that the "peel-n-stick" types do not hold up very well over time. We prefer the material available from Kraus as it is a much better product and application method.

From the www.krausmusic.com website:

Sheet teflon is useful for both woodwind and brass work. Our teflon sheets have been chemically etched on one side which allows them to be glued with either contact cement or cyanoacrylate (crazy glue). Apply the glue to the brown side. Nothing will stick to the white untreated side of the teflon. We sell only teflon that is ready for you to use your own glue, rather than peel and stick self-adhesive versions which usually do not work as well.

See this link for the bondable teflon sheets:

http://www.krausmusic.com/sheets/shtsynth.htm#220
 

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jbtsax said:
What adhesive do you use to attach the teflon sheet to the felt? Is it the same contact adhesive you mentioned in a previous thread that dries very quickly?
Just to clarify Gordon is gluing the teflon to Kraus "synthetic" felt, which is not felt at all. I can't speak for Gordon, but we lightly sand the surface of the synthetic "felt" to raise the grain, which allows the synthetic felt to bond better with contact cements, super glues, etc..
 

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Yeah, the glue on the pre-glued Teflon isn't the best and does tend to creep over time - I usually stick it onto Rubco/Gummi-Kork (already on the key) and burnish it down so the glue is pushed into the rubco making it stay put better - but obviously the treated Teflon with a better glue should stay put.

The only problem with Teflon is that it's brittle and shouldn't be used if there's a sharp edge (like a key bevel or sharp edged adjuting screw tip) making contact with it.
 

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Chris Peryagh said:
The only problem with Teflon is that it's brittle and shouldn't be used if there's a sharp edge (like a key bevel or sharp edged adjuting screw tip) making contact with it.
In this instance we prefer to de-burr or slightly round-off the sharp outer edge on the adjustment screw's contact point. The more polished/non-coarse this surface/contact area is, the less concern for frictional problems with the teflon slider it contacts while engaged underneath.
 

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In general, I don't like Teflon alone in linkages because it is so noisy.

For gluing the Kraus synthetic felt (not to be confused with their black synthetic cork), or any other felt, I first seal the whole sheet of felt with "thixotropic" contact adhesive, such as Ados F3. This can be spread over the surface like margarine. Then it glues really well with a good contact adhesive such as Evostik.

In my experience, self adhesive backings are useless on ANY product used in woodwind repairs. As others say, on such small surfaces, with forces along the surface, it too easily migrates off the key, especially in warm weather.

Adhesive-backed Teflon is no exception.

I use the Teflon from Kraus, or similar, which is chemically etched. It glues reliably with contact adhesive.

I wouldn't call Teflon "brittle", but high pressure and sharp edges easily distort or damage it.
 

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I don't know a word to describe the crushability of Teflon - if compressed with a sharp or pointed edge it crushes and splits.

Same thing with Teflon tipped adjusting screws (Loree/Cabart) if too much pressure is applied to them, the Teflon crumples.
 

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Chris, Try removing the OEM teflon tips and replacing them with monofilament fishing line of the same diameter. They glue in place with superglue, and we also round the tips off in the bench motor before gluing in place.
 

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I've been making my own nylon tipped adjusters or replacing the Teflon tips in existing ones by glueing in 1mm diameter nylon harp string into the ends, and doming the tips by melting them in a flame so they're smooth.
 

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Another technician dips the very tip of the heated screw into hot melt glue (possibly also softened), followed straight away with a dip inot Teflon powder.
 
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