[Trav1s]

Last year I picked up a nice YTS-21 from the guy who had owned it for 25+ years and replaced it with a TenorMadness horn. At that time I knew it would need some work but for the price it was a great way for me to figure out if I wanted to venture in the world of reeds. Both shops that evaluated my purchase said there were leaks throughout the entire stack and would be a challenge to play. I spent the first year working on the basics and made some progress but the horn keeps getting in my way. After trying some different horns at the local shop I became keenly aware that the horn would need some repairs before I could make any more progress. Yesterday I dropped it off Mr. Sadsax at https://www.barnardrepair.com for a total repad and it will be done by the end of January and cannot wait to play it after the repairs. Aaron is also going the replace the missing key pearl on the D since the cork that is currently in place is not the prettiest.

Meanwhile, I am resisting a Custom V1 neck I have been watching on Reverb.

 

[TomOhio]

Your horn is in good hands with Aaron. I’ve had great experience with him on a couple repairs.

 

[1saxman]

Resist the neck unless yours is damaged or unsuitable for some reason - you are not there yet. Ask the shop to check the neck fit while they're at it. They will make minor adjustments to the octave system if it also needs them. Its usually hard to beat the original neck on an alto or baritone (modern). Because they are short and only have one bend, its not like the longer tenor necks with compound bends that can be so different. So, there really is no design change with alto necks and materials (brass, silver, copper, etc.) don't usually make a major difference.

 

[JayeLID]

Resist the neck unless yours is damaged or unsuitable for some reason - you are not there yet.

I agree with this. It is a 21, just love it for what it is.

Also, some pretty BAD internet lore floating around that the main difference between the 21/23's and say the 52's or 61's is the neck. I swear I have even read self-proclaimed 'Yamaha-certified technicians' make this claim. Ergo, you upgrade the former's neck and you basically have yerself a 52/61....the, ahem, 'hypothesis' goes.

It is...hogwash. The body designs of the models one-rung-up are NOT the same as the 21/23...as one would expect them not to be.

So ....maybe a replacement neck will make the horn respond slightly different and change the tonality (it probably will since, well...replacement necks tend to DO that )....and maybe the change will be something positive (or just as likely it will be welcome while the whole experience is 'new' but as time goes by it will settle in that..while it is different, it might not necessarily be better)...or maybe not.

I guess what I am getting across is....if you do that...do not have lofty expectations....

 

[Trav1s]

Thanks for the thoughts and I appreciate the insights. I will practice and save up for a better horn in the future. By that time my daughter might want to claim the 21 for herself.

 

[SuperAction80]

I agree with this. It is a 21, just love it for what it is.

Also, some pretty BAD internet lore floating around that the main difference between the 21/23's and say the 52's or 61's is the neck. I swear I have even read self-proclaimed 'Yamaha-certified technicians' make this claim. Ergo, you upgrade the former's neck and you basically have yerself a 52/61....the, ahem, 'hypothesis' goes.

It is...hogwash. The body designs of the models one-rung-up are NOT the same as the 21/23...as one would expect them not to be.

So ....maybe a replacement neck will make the horn respond slightly different and change the tonality (it probably will since, well...replacement necks tend to DO that )....and maybe the change will be something positive (or just as likely it will be welcome while the whole experience is 'new' but as time goes by it will settle in that..while it is different, it might not necessarily be better)...or maybe not.

I guess what I am getting across is....if you do that...do not have lofty expectations....

Someone ought to inform Yamaha.

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...2ZII-have-same-bore!-(straight-from-Yamaha!)=

I recall coming across a chart of Yamaha tonehole sizes and placement on the forums, but can't seem to find it. One of these days, I'd like to map the differences out myself. From what I can recall, the measurements across the Yamaha line were near identical with the biggest change being the addition of the high F# and size/location of the low C. Neither was drastically different, but those little changes can make a bit of a difference in the low end. Whether or not those changes are worth an extra $1,000 or so is up to the individual player. I can't personally find another horn that does what my YAS-21 does, and it stays on par with every other Yamaha I've matched it up against. My biggest gripe with any Yamaha boils down to the heavy springing found in the factory setups. That's something which is easy to correct, and makes a world of difference.

Back to the OP, enjoy your repadded 21. They're really fun horns when they're set up well.

 

[Dr G]

Yesterday I dropped it off Mr. Sadsax at https://www.barnardrepair.com for a total repad and it will be done by the end of January and cannot wait to play it after the repairs. Aaron is also going the replace the missing key pearl on the D since the cork that is currently in place is not the prettiest.

Meanwhile, I am resisting a Custom V1 neck I have been watching on Reverb.

Your horn will benefit much more from Aaron's care than a new neck that isn't fit to the tenon. I suggest you live with the horn for a while - or at least have the conversation with Aaron whether he a) recommends a new neck, b) will fit the new neck while he has your horn in the shop.

Good call on going with Barnard. I bought a Super 20 from him with his overhaul, and it was magnificent!

 

[Charlie J]

Your horn will benefit much more from Aaron's care than a new neck that isn't fit to the tenon. I suggest you live with the horn for a while - or at least have the conversation with Aaron whether he a) recommends a new neck, b) will fit the new neck while he has your horn in the shop.

Good call on going with Barnard. I bought a Super 20 from him with his overhaul, and it was magnificent!

I'm fortunate to live close to Aaron and he does all my repairs and tune ups. A master craftsman and a true gentleman!

 

[Trav1s]

I am confident it will be a solid performer for what it is when the repairs are done. I have thought about the heavy key action myself and will talk with Aaron about that.

While new to the sax, I have played various pro trombones since the mid 80s. My favorite trombone is a 1969 Conn 79H with a Rotax valve installed in place of the original rotor. At a glance it looks like the average 79H patina but has all the benefits of the modern valve.

There’s something in me that likes to take an item (trombone, car, vintage garden tractors, computers) and put my own unique touch. The 21 is no exception other than I will find a teacher and work on playing skills.

As to the great debate of Yamaha instruments - I know the drill from the brass world. I find the Xeno 882 large bore tenor trombones to be great playing horns that stand tall next to modular horns that cost twice as much or even more. Former Lead trombone player in The Airmen of Note Doug Elliott plays a Yamaha 354 student .500” bore tenor as his primary jazz horn. All of That says something in my book.

I think instruments are much like shoes - some fit me and others don’t so I go with what fits.

 

[Trav1s]

Dealing with some serious sax withdrawal while waiting for the repairs.

 

[Reet McVouty]

I could be wrong but I don't think a V-1 would even fit a YTS-21. I believe the tenon is too long. At least I know that's how it is was with my son's YTS-475 and my G-1 neck off my 875.

 

[Trav1s]

I'm working on the patience thing as I wait for the work to be done. Winter has finally arrived and the time at home would be great for additional practice but that's not going to happen now.

 

[SuperAction80]

I could be wrong but I don't think a V-1 would even fit a YTS-21. I believe the tenon is too long. At least I know that's how it is was with my son's YTS-475 and my G-1 neck off my 875.

The tenon isn't the issue, though you may need to have the receiver adjusted for a proper fit. At least that's been the case with every Yamaha neck/horn combo I've ever tried. The issue is that the stem of the octave key mechanism, on the student horns, is flush with the neck receiver. The stems of the intermediate and professional models go beyond the receiver. Thus, when putting a pro neck on a student horn, the octave pip lever of the neck will not reach the mechanism stem of the body. To solve the issue, you'll either have to add to the stem to increase length, or you'll have to bend the neck's octave lever down. Unless you're using the neck on multiple horns, I find the latter solution to be preferable as you're only bending the lever by several millimeters.

 

[Trav1s]

Talked with Aaron yesterday and inquired about lightening the touch while he is working the magic on it. I cannot wait to try it it after the work is done.

Until then, I wait.

 

[Trav1s]

Just picked up the horn and spent some time getting reacquainted with it. I know understand how detrimental and discouraging leaks can be as an adult. Giving a beginner a leaky horn seems like setting them up to fail. I like the lighter touch on the keys and it is much easier to play. And it looks better too.

 

[Trav1s]

There she is! The sticker was my idea.

 

[Trav1s]

I finally got some time with the horn and it is much different than before. The practice session on Sunday was great but today’s attempt was abysmal. I will try again tomorrow. I do like the lighter key action and has a much different sound.

 

[BobD]

That is a minty 21 for sure. What was abysmal about your practice session?

 

[germanwatches]

I'm fortunate to live close to Aaron and he does all my repairs and tune ups. A master craftsman and a true gentleman!

You are a lucky man and it must be nice. The only people that live close to me are drug dealers...

 

[Trav1s]

That is a minty 21 for sure. What was abysmal about your practice session?

It really is in nice condition - played but not abused which seems to be rare with any student horn. I'm lucky to have picked it up.

Grabbed the horn again yesterday and experienced the same challenges. I am afraid I messed up keywork or something when handling it. Low C to low A are elusive and it plays worlds different than the first time I took it out of the case. Used both the C* and the 10MFan Classic 6* with it and same struggles. I am afraid I need to make a trip back to the master and see what I did to it.