Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I finally got some clips from my senior recital posted on YouTube. You can view them from my user page here or search for Ralph Torres. I just uploaded so they may not all show up in the search. They are both jazz and classical. I posted the audio of these same clips about a month ago so some of you may have already heard them. You can also check out my MySpace or Soundclick pages. I have posted this in other threads but I am eager for some feedback. Thanks for listening.
 

·
SOTW Administrator
Joined
·
26,206 Posts
Razzy said:
You sound great, man. Only criticism: using the sheet for your classical rep.
I don't understand that criticism. Classical players, generally play with music, except for pianists. Tradition is that non-pianists memorize concertos, not entire recitals.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
4,596 Posts
That's not how I hear it... maybe entry level students. But in serious classical programs I think that the students are generally expected to memorize their recital material. It depends on your standards. I did a recital in the spring featuring Syrinx (on the flute), the entire Tableaux de Provence, and the Glazunov from memory... and I am a jazz player first. It's really not THAT difficult.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
2,319 Posts
troz99-you sound like Coltrane at times-nice job!
 

·
SOTW Administrator
Joined
·
26,206 Posts
Razzy said:
That's not how I hear it... maybe entry level students. But in serious classical programs I think that the students are generally expected to memorize their recital material. It depends on your standards. I did a recital in the spring featuring Syrinx (on the flute), the entire Tableaux de Provence, and the Glazunov from memory... and I am a jazz player first. It's really not THAT difficult.
Go to any chamber music concert. In piano trios, even the pianist uses music. I don't think the Beaux Arts Trio players, for example, are 'entry level', and they always use music.

The Glaznouv is a concerto, and so should be done from memory. Since Syrinx is an unaccompanied piece, memorization is optional. To memorize the Tableaux is unnecessary.

There are no rules, only traditions.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
13,022 Posts
Just because there is music on the stand, don't assume the player is reading it. Sometimes it is there as a roadmap or something to focus on so you aren't distracted by the audience.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2008
Joined
·
830 Posts
Carl H. said:
Just because there is music on the stand, don't assume the player is reading it. Sometimes it is there as a roadmap or something to focus on so you aren't distracted by the audience.
Oh, I am totally going to use that as an excuse!

But Professor, I am not reading the music, it's just a map! You know, because of my stage fright!

Nice playing Troz! I really like it!
 

·
SOTW Administrator
Joined
·
26,206 Posts
Carl H. said:
Just because there is music on the stand, don't assume the player is reading it. Sometimes it is there as a roadmap or something to focus on so you aren't distracted by the audience.
This is very true, Carl, but not always.

I saw the Beaux Arts Trio at the Ravinia Festival a few years ago. They were playing the Rachmaninoff Trio. The page turner for Menachem Pressler, the pianist, turned more than one page, and the music came to a halt. The page turner was replaced for the next piece.

This was what I was thinking of in my reply above.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
13,022 Posts
hakukani said:
This is very true, Carl, but not always.

I saw the Beaux Arts Trio at the Ravinia Festival a few years ago. They were playing the Rachmaninoff Trio. The page turner for Menachem Pressler, the pianist, turned more than one page, and the music came to a halt. The page turner was replaced for the next piece.

This was what I was thinking of in my reply above.
I generally have any solo work memorized, but I still use music when possible. Even if I don't read it I have it on a stand.

For a regular performer sometimes the schedule and sheer volume of performances involved makes memorization difficult if not impossible. I witnessed a fine performer, doing an all Bartok piano recital from memory, stumble in performance. He apologized to the audience and said the music deserved better than than and left the stage to get the music. Came back and gave a brilliant performance. It was uncomfortable, but I respect the guy for putting the performance over his personal pride.

If memory is an ego thing, get over yourself. If it is a requirement, then get busy. Do what is best for the performance and move on to the next thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I didn't realize that I was going to start a whole debate on memorizing the music. Just to let you guys know why I didn't. CSU San Bernardino is buy no means a serious classical program. I had always thought that I was going to have to memorize a bunch of music for my senior recital, I knew it was that way at CSU Northridge. I found out that at this school, you don't have to memorize so I didn't. I know that If I ever choose to go on to a masters program in either jazz or classical, I will have to play any solo recitals from memory. I don't think it's that big of a deal but I'm always more impressed when someone plays a good recital from memory.

Thank you guys for the positive comments. Honeyboy- thanks for the Coltrane comparison.
 

·
SOTW Administrator
Joined
·
26,206 Posts
troz99 said:
I didn't realize that I was going to start a whole debate on memorizing the music. Just to let you guys know why I didn't. CSU San Bernardino is buy no means a serious classical program. I had always thought that I was going to have to memorize a bunch of music for my senior recital, I knew it was that way at CSU Northridge. I found out that at this school, you don't have to memorize so I didn't. I know that If I ever choose to go on to a masters program in either jazz or classical, I will have to play any solo recitals from memory. I don't think it's that big of a deal but I'm always more impressed when someone plays a good recital from memory.

Thank you guys for the positive comments. Honeyboy- thanks for the Coltrane comparison.
Maybe you should try IU. You don't have to memorize your recital there. I hear it's a pretty good school, too.:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
hakukani said:
Maybe you should try IU. You don't have to memorize your recital there. I hear it's a pretty good school, too.:D
I played junior and senior recitals at IU and a master's recital at USC in the mid 1970's, and memorizing the pieces was not even considered. I don't know of anyone who memorized recital programs at either school (not including pianists). Maybe times are different now. I did memorize Weber's "Concertino" when I played it as a senior in high school.
The last time I had to memorize something was the entr'acte music when I was in the on-stage band (in drag!) for "Cabaret". That was really difficult for me, because senitlity had apparently kicked in by that age.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2011, SOTW's pedantic pet rodent
Joined
·
8,322 Posts
Carl H. said:
I generally have any solo work memorized, but I still use music when possible. Even if I don't read it I have it on a stand.

If memory is an ego thing, get over yourself. If it is a requirement, then get busy. Do what is best for the performance and move on to the next thing.
I have heard it said that it's an "audience thing", part of the "marketing" of music. If true, I think it;s a shame. The underlying idea would be that the performers are giving an impression that they are making it up as they go along. I'm talking "classical music" here, of cou rse.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
4,596 Posts
hakukani said:
Go to any chamber music concert. In piano trios, even the pianist uses music. I don't think the Beaux Arts Trio players, for example, are 'entry level', and they always use music.

The Glaznouv is a concerto, and so should be done from memory. Since Syrinx is an unaccompanied piece, memorization is optional. To memorize the Tableaux is unnecessary.

There are no rules, only traditions.
I wasn't talking about ensembles, just soloists. And for me it's just that I don't really know a solo piece (of whatever kind) until I have it completely memorized, I feel like it's a disservice to the music if I don't. Whatever others consider "unnecessary", I haven't seen James Galway, Josh Bell, or Yo-Yo Ma use sheet music in serious solo performances. Not to compare myself to such great musicians at all, but to understand WHY they do it that way and try to employ this in my playing.

Obviously opinion is going to vary on this depending on your playing situations and your capacity/timeframe in which to prepare your music. But to me using the music for something as great as the Glazunov or as simple as Syrinx in a solo performance would be like using the real book for Blue Bossa...
 

·
SOTW Administrator
Joined
·
26,206 Posts
Razzy said:
I wasn't talking about ensembles, just soloists. And for me it's just that I don't really know a solo piece (of whatever kind) until I have it completely memorized, I feel like it's a disservice to the music if I don't. Whatever others consider "unnecessary", I haven't seen James Galway, Josh Bell, or Yo-Yo Ma use sheet music in serious solo performances. Not to compare myself to such great musicians at all, but to understand WHY they do it that way and try to employ this in my playing.

Obviously opinion is going to vary on this depending on your playing situations and your capacity/timeframe in which to prepare your music. But to me using the music for something as great as the Glazunov or as simple as Syrinx in a solo performance would be like using the real book for Blue Bossa...
Chamber music includes Sonatas (single instrument with keyboard), which is basically what Tableaux is.

FWIW I have seen Josh Bell, Yo-Yo Ma, Iztak Perlman, Pinky Zuckerman, (and that's off the top of my head) all use music when playing 'serious recitals'.

Frankly speaking, other than student recitals, it's very unusual to hear a Concerto (which should be memorized) in any other context than with an orchestra, and not a piano reduction. I did hear Dr. Rousseau play the Feld Concerto with the music, but I believe Feld had just finished it and Dr. Rousseau perhaps had not had enough time to memorize it.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW member, musician, technician &
Joined
·
4,982 Posts
Razzy said:
I wasn't talking about ensembles, just soloists. And for me it's just that I don't really know a solo piece (of whatever kind) until I have it completely memorized, I feel like it's a disservice to the music if I don't.
This is what I have a problem with. No one can argue with what you said here. YOU probably are doing a disservice to the music if YOU don't memorize it, if that is what you think. That doesn't mean that OTHERS can do great without memorizing it. Some people are just really terrible at memorizing. I've heard great solos played with sheet music and bad ones played by memorizing, and vise versa. So I think you shouldn't generalize and just look at each performance individually.

Razzy said:
Whatever others consider "unnecessary", I haven't seen James Galway, Josh Bell, or Yo-Yo Ma use sheet music in serious solo performances. Not to compare myself to such great musicians at all, but to understand WHY they do it that way and try to employ this in my playing.
Again these are individuals who are doing what THEY think is best. It works for them and that's great. The problem is when some people have already "built in" conceptions that don't allow them to judge objectively (i.e. some "knows" it's better to memorize so if someone doesn't, it automatically becomes inferior). So I don't think whether anyone memorizing or not has anything to do with anyone else doing it or not.

Razzy said:
Obviously opinion is going to vary on this depending on your playing situations and your capacity/timeframe in which to prepare your music. But to me using the music for something as great as the Glazunov or as simple as Syrinx in a solo performance would be like using the real book for Blue Bossa...
This is definitely not the same. When you are playing [any written piece] you are playing something that is completely composed already. When you are playing Blue Bossa you are not playing what is written at all, but actually composing.
 

·
The most prolific Distinguished SOTW poster, Forum
Joined
·
27,650 Posts
Razzy said:
I haven't seen James Galway, Josh Bell, or Yo-Yo Ma use sheet music in serious solo performances.
Well I have (Galway) as well as Jean Pierre Rampal, Hermann Bauman, Yehudi Menuhin and any number of superb wind soloists. I've never noticed a lack-lustre response from an audience that was based on anything other than the musical quality of the performance.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, & Forum Contributor 200
Joined
·
1,436 Posts
I think you did an excellent job Ralph.
Sometimes these more formal settings are not the most conducive to relaxing and letting go . great sound I enjoyed it.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top