[BigBen23]

I have recently been able to compare 3 Alto Saxophones, Yamaha's Custom Alto line 82Zii, 875EXii and The Legendary Selmer Mark VI. All are great horns and I'll try to break down each horn and compare them as well.

1. 82Zii: This horn has that Yamaha Punch and brightness that we've certainly come to expect but with the new one piece bell and V1 neck it has more tonal flexibility than before. If you want it to smooch or blast the hats off in the front row it can do and anything in between it can do it. it's a very versatile horn but Yamaha has accomplished the big thing that many who have owned Selmer's lamented loosing when switching to Yamaha, "Tonal Character". Build Quality is Excellent and the ergonomics are second to none having improved upon the Selmer design. The intonation was spot on but if you aren't used to a wider bore neck on the Horn it may take some time to get used to.

2. 875EXii: This horn comes with the One Piece Bell and V1 neck as well. It doesn't have the cut and power of the 82Zii but with the right mouthpiece you can get plenty of brightness out of it. It is overall a darker horn than the 82Zii and I think it has a sweeter core which really lends it being a very well balanced horn. If you want to go from the Classical recital to the Smooth Jazz/Funk gig you definitely can. The Intonation is spot on as well but it did seem a little more focused. Ergonomics and Build quality remained excellent and key action is very fast' maybe a little faster than the 82Zii. This horn reminded a lot of a Selmer mark VI and SBA but a with a little more brilliance when pushed but if you love the Mark VI or SBA sound the 875EXii is a contender to replace that spot in your life.

3. Selmer Mark VI 119XXX: (to me the Mark VI is the 1st modern horn) First off this Mark VI is a players horn and put up a really good fight. The Sound was exactly what your looking for from a Mark VI very sweet complex sound with good brightness up top and smoky depth down low. You would think as of right now that this is the perfect horn but It did have the typical intonation issues associated with these great horns. Let me clarify, you can work around these intonation problems with alternate fingerings and lots of long tones. Whether or not it's worth the time and effort to get used to this horn is up to you; for me it is not. Build quality for when it was made was top notch but the Yamahas have well surpassed it. The Ergonomics are still to this day one of the best in the business and I have no significant complaint about it. While this Saxophone is a great horn and I enjoyed playing it very much it was apparently obvious that the Yamaha's had surpassed it's now Fading Glory. if it had been offered at a lower price I may have bought it but at 6k vs 3.5k even hype and nostalgia faded away.

In Conclusion the best of the 3 horns for me was the 82Zii and I loved the sound of all 3 horns but at 3.5k (this price was discounted from retail) I had to order the 82Zii and it will soon replace my Cannonball VR as my main Axe. Happy Hunting to those searching. If the price on that Mark VI ever comes down I may snatch it up as a recording horn bc I love these old horns but I don't like to actively gig with them.

 

[soybean]

Thanks for your report. I agree with much of what you say. It’s not clear why a one piece bell would make playing low notes easier, but it sure seems to.

 

[LostConn]

Well-balanced evaluation. Can you elaborate on how you had to "get used to" the V1 neck on the Yamaha horns? What adjustments did it require of you?

 

[Dr G]

Why the buzz about a 1-piece bell? That's how they've been made for most of the time that saxophones have existed (including the Mk VI).

 

[BigBen23]

Well-balanced evaluation. Can you elaborate on how you had to "get used to" the V1 neck on the Yamaha horns? What adjustments did it require of you?

I had to just firm up my embouchure a little bit because it is such a free blowing horn and I did end up buying the Mark VI as well because the price was significantly lowered and I felt it was the perfect horn for recording.

 

[BigBen23]

Why the buzz about a 1-piece bell? That's how they've been made for most of the time that saxophones have existed (including the Mk VI).

The mark VI is a two piece bell thus the bow to bell joints which was a something they marketed as a plus. a one piece does help but it shouldn't make or break a decision to buy a horn or not.

 

[Dr G]

The mark VI is a two piece bell thus the bow to bell joints which was a something they marketed as a plus. a one piece does help but it shouldn't make or break a decision to buy a horn or not.

Are we talking about the same thing? I am talking about the bell itself, not including the bow.

The Mk VI has a one-piece bell - it is formed from a single piece of sheet that is cut and bent, joined and formed. Some modern bells are hydroformed in two halves to net shape, and then soldered.

 

[Benjamin Allen]

Are we talking about the same thing? I am talking about the bell itself, not including the bow.

The Mk VI has a one-piece bell - it is formed from a single piece of sheet that is cut and bent, joined and formed. Some modern bells are hydroformed in two halves to net shape, and then soldered.

I didn't find the one piece bell to make a bit of difference when comparing the generation one from generation two horns. I think Yamaha just wanted to justify the higher price over the 62 or they really believe it makes a difference or there was popular demand to have it hand hammered or . . . I don't know. It was probably because the internal bore geometry isn't impacted that I just couldn't feel the difference. The stock V1 neck, on the other hand, made a big difference as did the C1 neck with which I replaced the stock neck. I am less concerned with the manner of manufacture than I am the internal bore dimensions.

But yes, Yamaha's custom horns are now made with the one piece bell as were the Mark VI saxophones.

 

[Benjamin Allen]

I have recently been able to compare 3 Alto Saxophones, Yamaha's Custom Alto line 82Zii, 875EXii and The Legendary Selmer Mark VI. All are great horns and I'll try to break down each horn and compare them as well.

1. 82Zii: This horn has that Yamaha Punch and brightness that we've certainly come to expect but with the new one piece bell and V1 neck it has more tonal flexibility than before. If you want it to smooch or blast the hats off in the front row it can do and anything in between it can do it. it's a very versatile horn but Yamaha has accomplished the big thing that many who have owned Selmer's lamented loosing when switching to Yamaha, "Tonal Character". Build Quality is Excellent and the ergonomics are second to none having improved upon the Selmer design. The intonation was spot on but if you aren't used to a wider bore neck on the Horn it may take some time to get used to.

2. 875EXii: This horn comes with the One Piece Bell and V1 neck as well. It doesn't have the cut and power of the 82Zii but with the right mouthpiece you can get plenty of brightness out of it. It is overall a darker horn than the 82Zii and I think it has a sweeter core which really lends it being a very well balanced horn. If you want to go from the Classical recital to the Smooth Jazz/Funk gig you definitely can. The Intonation is spot on as well but it did seem a little more focused. Ergonomics and Build quality remained excellent and key action is very fast' maybe a little faster than the 82Zii. This horn reminded a lot of a Selmer mark VI and SBA but a with a little more brilliance when pushed but if you love the Mark VI or SBA sound the 875EXii is a contender to replace that spot in your life.

3. Selmer Mark VI 119XXX: (to me the Mark VI is the 1st modern horn) First off this Mark VI is a players horn and put up a really good fight. The Sound was exactly what your looking for from a Mark VI very sweet complex sound with good brightness up top and smoky depth down low. You would think as of right now that this is the perfect horn but It did have the typical intonation issues associated with these great horns. Let me clarify, you can work around these intonation problems with alternate fingerings and lots of long tones. Whether or not it's worth the time and effort to get used to this horn is up to you; for me it is not. Build quality for when it was made was top notch but the Yamahas have well surpassed it. The Ergonomics are still to this day one of the best in the business and I have no significant complaint about it. While this Saxophone is a great horn and I enjoyed playing it very much it was apparently obvious that the Yamaha's had surpassed it's now Fading Glory. if it had been offered at a lower price I may have bought it but at 6k vs 3.5k even hype and nostalgia faded away.

In Conclusion the best of the 3 horns for me was the 82Zii and I loved the sound of all 3 horns but at 3.5k (this price was discounted from retail) I had to order the 82Zii and it will soon replace my Cannonball VR as my main Axe. Happy Hunting to those searching. If the price on that Mark VI ever comes down I may snatch it up as a recording horn bc I love these old horns but I don't like to actively gig with them.

Good report . . . thank you. I am a big fan of the second generation Yamaha Z. I also found the 875EXII to be more focused as the bore geometry is quite distinct from the Z. I am seriously considering replacing my Reference 54 alto with the Yamaha Z II or just adding it to my options. But I love all three horns and wouldn't mind owning the 875EXII, the 82ZII, and the Reference 54 (which feels very close to a Mark VI IMO).

 

[Keith Ridenhour]

Good review. I've trialed my 82Z gen 1 horn against many horns worth 3 times as much. Pretty close. I got mine used for 1800 a few years ago. Nice evaluation K

 

[buddy lee]

Thanks for your report. I agree with much of what you say. It's not clear why a one piece bell would make playing low notes easier, but it sure seems to.

If one piece bell = a tenor sax without a detachable bell then it stands to reason there will be no chance of a leak at that connection. You'll see lots of people getting those detachable bells soldered on for that reason.

 

[BigBen23]

Are we talking about the same thing? I am talking about the bell itself, not including the bow.

The Mk VI has a one-piece bell - it is formed from a single piece of sheet that is cut and bent, joined and formed. Some modern bells are hydroformed in two halves to net shape, and then soldered.

The bell to bow brace are now pre-soldered (at least that is what the tech told me, I couldnt take it apart on the spot to tell you lol). Easy confusion I should've been clearer.

 

[Dr G]

The bell to bow brace are now pre-soldered (at least that is what the tech told me, I couldnt take it apart on the spot to tell you lol). Easy confusion I should've been clearer.

The bell-to-bow connection has always been soldered. It's the bow-to-body connection that was amended to make the bell removable. The brace is a different matter - and is a bolted connection, has not been a fixed, soldered connection for decades.

You don't have to take a horn apart to see if it was originally soldered. If it was originally designed to be removable, there will be a clamp at the union between body and bow (see the horn on the left). If originally soldered, there is just a ring at the joint, same as at the bell connection to the bow (as shown on the horn on the right).

To confuse matters more, the connection underneath the clamp on the silver plate horn was soldered when it was overhauled. :bluewink:

 

[Benjamin Allen]

The bell to bow brace are now pre-soldered (at least that is what the tech told me, I couldnt take it apart on the spot to tell you lol). Easy confusion I should've been clearer.

I'm looking at an 82Z version one at the moment, and it definitely has the the bell to bow soldered; it came that way from Yamaha. I'm also looking at my 82Z II--same thing. What does not appear to be soldered on either one is the body to bow link--there is neither damage to the lacquer from heat nor the appearance of solder. (I had this done on my Reference 54 alto for several reasons, and it's quite visible.) I don't think your tech was accurate in stating the bell to bow brace was previously not soldered. I'll call the Yamaha Atelier and inquire just to confirm.

 

[Dr G]

What does not appear to be soldered on either one is the body to bow link--there is neither damage to the lacquer from heat nor the appearance of solder. (I had this done on my Reference 54 alto for several reasons, and it's quite visible.)

I had a similar treatment done on my Ref 36 tenor, and there was no visible evidence - no burned lacquer, and the solder joint is obscured by the removable band.

 

[Benjamin Allen]

I had a similar treatment done on my Ref 36 tenor, and there was no visible evidence - no burned lacquer, and the solder joint is obscured by the removable band.

Maybe the tech applied too much heat? Don't know. From your images I did notice you have the Kooiman Forza--great thumb rest. So comfortable. Should come standard on the horns!

 

[soybean]

Yamaha is touting their one-piece bell, NOT the bell to bow connection (or lack of same). I compared a generation i 82z alto with a generation ii 82z alto. The low notes were noticeably better on the series ii. This is for alto, I did not test the 82z tenor.

 

[BigBen23]

I had a similar treatment done on my Ref 36 tenor, and there was no visible evidence - no burned lacquer, and the solder joint is obscured by the removable band.

Thank you Dr G your definitely right I did some more inspection and it's true what Yamaha is claiming the Bell is now the One piece style of manufacture instead of the 2 piece.

 

[BigBen23]

I like to visit my posts and offer an update after a little while. My evaluation still stands but I did end up purchasing the Mark VI as well, the gentleman I bought it from finally got tired of holding onto it. After having had both now for a while I do prefer the Mark VI Sound but I prefer the key work and action slightly more on the 82Zii. Both are great horns and in a lot of ways similar but what has become apparent as I've really gotten to know these horns is typically the Yamaha at it's price point is a better buy but if the price is the same it simply comes down to your sound concept and what you prefer. For me I like the amount of "play" the Mark VI provides as I've gotten to know the "old girl" but I did have to take the time and do all those things Saxophonists hate doing like sitting down with a tuner and doing overtones until I locked things in. In short just go try as many horns as you can you never know what might tickle your fancy.

 

[pablop]

as I've gotten to know the "old girl" but I did have to take the time and do all those things Saxophonists hate doing like sitting down with a tuner and doing overtones until I locked things in. In short just go try as many horns as you can you never know what might tickle your fancy.

BigBen23, you did not make any mention to the fact that the VI you own is a LongBow alto, roughly 78xxx through 135xxx were part of an attempt to improve the VI alto model by extending the bow. This is normally associated with the low end of the horn playing flat. That issue is corrected with the medium bow preceding and following the Long Bow runs.

I own both horns, Mark VI 158xxx and 82z, they are both equal to me intonation wise.
The VI offers a bit more resistance than the 82z does, they are both amazing horns and I would not pick one over the other for recording.
The YAS 82z I own is a silver lacquer first generation with an updated V1 neck, I was highly surprised by the tone on this one, dark, smooth and even through the horn.