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Discussion Starter #1
Very quick question.

I've played a Yanigasawa bari and felt like my hands were pretty crowded, like sitting in a little sports car. My hands are large. Not XL, just L. Is the YBS any less crowded or similar to Yani?

I'm about to pull trigger on either a Bb VI or a YBS62, both good deals.

Thanks:)
 

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I feel like they're pretty close to one another, with slight changes in geometry. I have rather large hands, and love the Yani ergos, but if they're not working for you, you may want to try a Couf / Keilwerth. They seem to have more spaced out fingerings. If that still feels uncomfortable, and if the Low A key isn't essential for your needs, try a Conn 12M.
 

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If the Yanagisawa didn’t work for your fingers/hands the Yamaha certainly won’t either.
The earlier 61 baris are better than the current 62’s.
I have big mits and for a modern low A I have a Yamaha 61.
I used to have a Yanagisawa B6 which was also workable.
But mainly I play my The Martin Comittee or a Conn 11M.
The domed pearls on the Yamaha 62 I once had, seemed to make it feel even more crowded.
Keilwerths are supposed to be better spread.
Conns feel about right for me.
 

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I play a yani, I find the palm keys ok however I thought the same keys on the Yamaha 62E were too close together. I wear size 9 gloves so not massive hands. I did like the low A on the Yamaha though, much better than the Yani in may opinion , a much more positive action.


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Discussion Starter #5
I hear so much good about the 62 - best bari ever made etc. - but I should mention, I play a '54 Martin Comm III. I feel like the spacing is a good fit for me and the action I think is good too but my hands are quite deteriorated and what I'm needing is kind of the easiest lightest action I can find. If it crowds my hands maybe I can get used to it, would have to see. The Martin is the only bari I've owned. My hands flare up if I start playing it anymore so I've been off bari for a couple years.

How are the Keilwerths as far as action, to they tend to be tightly sprung? I've kind of narrowed my real need down to a thumb hook that's at or above the position of the F key, and lighti springs and action. Plus great tone:) Same question re SML.
 

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... I've kind of narrowed my real need down to a thumb hook that's at or above the position of the F key, and lighti springs and action. Plus great tone:).
these things are easy. Thumb hooks can be placed anywhere you like by a good sax technician. And spring action is something techs adjust every day. (Great tone is something else.)
 

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Don't forget that keys can be bent to suit your preferences. I would however recommend an extensive period of adaptation and familiarization before changing anything.

As an example, I play Conn 6M, 10M, and 12M. On the 10M the spread between RH ring and little fingers is dramatically less than on the other two. Like, the little finger almost brushes the side of my ring finger when playing Eb. This used to bother me a lot when I first started playing these horns. Today I don't even notice it.
 

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I hear so much good about the 62 - best bari ever made etc. - but I should mention, I play a '54 Martin Comm III. I feel like the spacing is a good fit for me and the action I think is good too but my hands are quite deteriorated and what I'm needing is kind of the easiest lightest action I can find. If it crowds my hands maybe I can get used to it, would have to see. The Martin is the only bari I've owned. My hands flare up if I start playing it anymore so I've been off bari for a couple years.

How are the Keilwerths as far as action, to they tend to be tightly sprung? I've kind of narrowed my real need down to a thumb hook that's at or above the position of the F key, and lighti springs and action. Plus great tone:) Same question re SML.
I had a The Martin bari for several years before getting my present Yani B992 and I thought the ergos were pretty good on it. It also had a fabulous sound. What I was fighting was the intonation which can be very challenging on these. I don't think the action on any modern Low A horn is going to be any lighter though the left-hand table keys may be easier to get around on. Likewise, if you are looking for something that will be less stressful on your hands I don't know that a bari with a Low A will be that. Playing lots of bell-tone riffs that include Low A's like the stuff Doc has written into the TOP charts I feel is the hardest thing my hands have to deal with on bari. The amount of rocking and clamping needed to get those big bell tone holes covered is significant compared to playing low B's and Bb's on alto or tenor. As always the best thing to do is make a few road trips and try them out for yourself to see what works best for you. You may also want to PM 1saxman as he just switched from a vintage Martin to a Kessler Low A Solist bari (a good copy of a Yani B901) a few years ago mostly for ergonomic reasons.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I don't need the low A but not so many modern horns without. Only once in a while do I find myself needing one. So I'm not so worried about whether playing a lot of low A's would bother me. But yeah the Martin, when my hands were good, felt perfect for me ergonomically. It may turn out that any bari is going to be a problem. I've got my Martin fairly dialed in, so to make a difference I'd need to find a horn with naturally light action. I don't know what all variables go into that. I find that if the pinky clusters take too much effort, the force transmits to my thumbs which are the super hot spot in my hands, no cartilage left in the base joints.

Anyway, I'm gonna buy something and see how it goes:) Intonation, too, is definitely an issue on the Martin 'though I've played around it for a long time now, there's times when it just rears its head against my will. Honestly seems to be more of an issue when practicing than gigging.

Re. road trips, not finding that much close enough to home to look at. A VI that's VI hours away for instance:)

I had a The Martin bari for several years before getting my present Yani B992 and I thought the ergos were pretty good on it. It also had a fabulous sound. What I was fighting was the intonation which can be very challenging on these. I don't think the action on any modern Low A horn is going to be any lighter though the left-hand table keys may be easier to get around on. Likewise, if you are looking for something that will be less stressful on your hands I don't know that a bari with a Low A will be that. Playing lots of bell-tone riffs that include Low A's like the stuff Doc has written into the TOP charts I feel is the hardest thing my hands have to deal with on bari. The amount of rocking and clamping needed to get those big bell tone holes covered is significant compared to playing low B's and Bb's on alto or tenor. As always the best thing to do is make a few road trips and try them out for yourself to see what works best for you. You may also want to PM 1saxman as he just switched from a vintage Martin to a Kessler Low A Solist bari (a good copy of a Yani B901) a few years ago mostly for ergonomic reasons.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Weltklang
Those, B&S and the Keilwerths are all interesting and beautiful horns but not that many around. Definitely would love to know more about them. Do you have a Weltklang, can you tell me about the action etc?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
these things are easy. Thumb hooks can be placed anywhere you like by a good sax technician. And spring action is something techs adjust every day. (Great tone is something else.)
Sometimes the tonehole above the thumbrest limits upward mobility...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Argh. Wish I could just have all of them for a couple weeks to compare:)

If the Yanagisawa didn’t work for your fingers/hands the Yamaha certainly won’t either.
The earlier 61 baris are better than the current 62’s.
I have big mits and for a modern low A I have a Yamaha 61.
I used to have a Yanagisawa B6 which was also workable.
But mainly I play my The Martin Comittee or a Conn 11M.
The domed pearls on the Yamaha 62 I once had, seemed to make it feel even more crowded.
Keilwerths are supposed to be better spread.
Conns feel about right for me.
 

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Those, B&S and the Keilwerths are all interesting and beautiful horns but not that many around. Definitely would love to know more about them. Do you have a Weltklang, can you tell me about the action etc?
I got mine from Silversax (he's a SOTW member) from the Ukraine more than ten years ago.
He's an expert on them, maybe you could contact him.
For me it works well and I have medium large hands.
To bad your are in northern Ca.
I'm in SoCal, if you were close you could try it.
I haven't played many baris so It's hard for me to compare.
It has a key below the LH thumb rest which closes the low A
 

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Very quick question.

I've played a Yanigasawa bari and felt like my hands were pretty crowded, like sitting in a little sports car. My hands are large. Not XL, just L. Is the YBS any less crowded or similar to Yani?

I'm about to pull trigger on either a Bb VI or a YBS62, both good deals.

Thanks:)
Here's a RH ergo comparison I made some time ago, between YBS-62, Selmer SA80-II and Yanagisawa.

I tried to align the product photos as good as possible, not perfect, but sufficient for the comparison. Top and bottom horizontal lines are used for alignment of the photos. The center line is just a guide for the eye.

The Yamaha and Yanagisawa are quite similar in layout. On the Selmer SA80-II the RH keys are placed very differently. Note, Mark VI (not shown here) is absolutely not identical to the SA80-II.

View attachment 215350
 

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I don't need the low A but not so many modern horns without. Only once in a while do I find myself needing one. So I'm not so worried about whether playing a lot of low A's would bother me. But yeah the Martin, when my hands were good, felt perfect for me ergonomically. It may turn out that any bari is going to be a problem. I've got my Martin fairly dialed in, so to make a difference I'd need to find a horn with naturally light action. I don't know what all variables go into that. I find that if the pinky clusters take too much effort, the force transmits to my thumbs which are the super hot spot in my hands, no cartilage left in the base joints.

Anyway, I'm gonna buy something and see how it goes:) Intonation, too, is definitely an issue on the Martin 'though I've played around it for a long time now, there's times when it just rears its head against my will. Honestly seems to be more of an issue when practicing than gigging.

Re. road trips, not finding that much close enough to home to look at. A VI that's VI hours away for instance:)
Yes, unfortunately the physics involved in larger keycups, longer rods, and stronger springs doesn't help. The action is always a bit of a balancing act as if you lighten it up too much things begin to feel sort of sloppy to me. Honestly, if I'm not playing in a setting where the Low A is needed (funk, R&B) I most often choose to play my Low Bb Barone bari. I don't know that it sounds a lot different out front but with the shorter bell the sound and response are different for the player.
 

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Here's a RH ergo comparison I made some time ago, between YBS-62, Selmer SA80-II and Yanagisawa.
I expected some differentiation, but those are completely different key layouts! I think at that point, you're going to run into weight issues from the actual balance of the horn.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yeah that's a very useful reference. Where does the VI fall in comparison? I'm thinking a Series II or a VI is where I'm headed. The II being quite a bit more $$ but also would likely have less miles on it.
Thanks:)

Here's a RH ergo comparison I made some time ago, between YBS-62, Selmer SA80-II and Yanagisawa.

I tried to align the product photos as good as possible, not perfect, but sufficient for the comparison. Top and bottom horizontal lines are used for alignment of the photos. The center line is just a guide for the eye.

The Yamaha and Yanagisawa are quite similar in layout. On the Selmer SA80-II the RH keys are placed very differently. Note, Mark VI (not shown here) is absolutely not identical to the SA80-II.

View attachment 215350
 

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From my memory, I think the Mk VI (and the SA80-I and the elusive Mk VI-stamped-as-Mk VII) sit in between the Yamaha and the II in terms of how far the RH keys moved down.

Whether or not the difference bothers the player is hard to predict. Some wouldn’t even notice. For me, the modern Selmer layout is uncomfortable.
 

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mark said:
I'm thinking a Series II or a VI...
Series II is better than mark VI Bari.
 
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