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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Cheeky bxxxxxxs !!!!!!


I suspect those selling burgers, or showing folks to their seats, or cleaning up the rubbish the next day, or...., or...., or..... etc ..........are all being paid!!!!!

Why not the musicians????

This next part is my edit of what they assume will have all musicians rushing to offer their services for nothing !

“The Band will perform each evening alongside a cast of over 1,200, in front of a live nightly international audience of 8,800, a total of 220,000 during the season, with a further 100 million watching the show on television around the world.”

What a cheek. !!!!


The Musicians Union are rightly not happy.

https://www.edintattoo.co.uk/media/1300/tattoo_band_application-2019.pdf
 

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There has been recently, in the NL, a protest lead by musicians against playing for free

https://nos.nl/artikel/2283964-musi...unchconcerten-hoe-mooi-de-locatie-ook-is.html

This is a ridiculous but well established practice commonly used even by the most famous places like Het Concertgebouw (Lunch concerts).

I don’t mind playing at some friend’s house for her (free for all) home concert, I’ve done that for a long time but if someone has a birthday or any other celebration my band and I charge a nominal fee ( still cheap) because if they pay for the place and catering why shouldn’t they pay for us?

In the NL there are so many volunteer for all manner of unpaid jobs, they actually compete with the people who are looking for a paid job. Volunteer work is a good thing but it may be abused by the “ system” to NOT pay people.

By the way, does anyone remember the ZITI thread?

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?28684-Ziti-A-working-musician-s-dinner
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don’t mind playing at some friend’s house for her (free for all) home concert, I’ve done that for a long time but if someone has a birthday or any other celebration my band and I charge a nominal fee ( still cheap) because if they pay for the place and catering why shouldn’t they pay for us?
Exactly !

I have no problem playing for nothing if it feels right. So, for example, I go in to care homes with a guitar and bass and play some tunes for the elderly residents.

I dont ask for payment. Why ? Because if i did, they would not have us in to play. They cant afford to pay.
I like the reaction of the residents, which is often magical, so I do get something out of it.

This Edinburgh Tattoo situation is a totally different thing

This is not a cheap event to attend, with some seats costing over £100 UK pounds per performance. it sells out every night.
Almost 9000, every night, for all of August, every year.

That’s an income from ticket sales of £20 million. !!!!!!!!!

Just think of every one else involved in making this work, and who receives payment for their contribution.
And they want musicians to play for no payment !!!!!!

Appalling.
 

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There should be laws against this not paying wages (it's most definitely being mentioned in the Bible many times! for example Jeremiah 22:13 )

“Woe to him who builds his house by unrighteousness, and his upper rooms by injustice, who makes his neighbor serve him for nothing and does not give him his wages"
 

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I've occasionally posted or commented on open mic or jazz jam gigs and used this essay. Now, thanks to Milandro, I can go biblical!!
Woohoo.


We have Met The Enemy

Posted by saxgourmetadm on July 6, 2014

We have met the enemy, and he is us…….take a good look at the player sitting next to you on your next gig…..he (or she) may well be the reason gigs are scarce and pay is low.
https://www.saxgourmet.com/we-have-met-the-enemy/
 

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internet works in mysterious and wondrous ways :)
 

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It is a privilege for me to play music for others to listen to.

It is also a privilege for people to listen to the music I perform.

One should pay for one's privileges... I have paid for mine by purchasing my instruments and other musical supplies and by putting in untold tens of thousands of hours of practice and study. I expect the people listening to me to pay for their privileges too...

It's a sad fact that I am grossly underpaid as a musician. But I have learned to live with it.
 

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Back when music first became available via radio and recordings, there were musicians unions who protested that the new technologies would put them out of work. And basically, it has. It took a while, but it's happened. We've gone from a situation where the only way a venue could present music was to hire musicians to one where a lot of clubs and weddings and events will settle for playing recorded music through a PA system, and venues that present live music feel like they are doing the musicians a favor, and we should be grateful enough to play for free.

I'm a weekend warrior with a full-time job, so the money I get for playing music doesn't matter much to me. But it still amazes me that so many venues and events have the gall to expect musicians to perform for free. Or, almost as bad, they expect you to perform for the same amount of money they would've paid in 1980. Sadly, $100 doesn't go as far as it did then.
 

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I have no problem playing for nothing if it feels right. So, for example, I go in to care homes with a guitar and bass and play some tunes for the elderly residents.

I dont ask for payment. Why ? Because if i did, they would not have us in to play. They cant afford to pay.
Such places generally have an entertainment budget. But if a manager can work the heartstrings to get musicians to play for free... well, that manager gets a bigger end of year bonus.
 

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The organisers of gigs/events/festivals pay people for all sorts of activities that make the gigs/events/festivals successfully run. And the lot of them make money and would not do it for free, no doubt. These organisers also know that there are desperate wannabe musicians out there that will play for free for name, fame, and adoration. Exploitation, it's the way of the humans.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Such places generally have an entertainment budget. But if a manager can work the heartstrings to get musicians to play for free... well, that manager gets a bigger end of year bonus.
What a cynical outlook to have. Especially about a situation that you know nothing about.

Moron.
 

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What a cynical outlook to have. Especially about a situation that you know nothing about.

Moron.
I don't think Grumps was trying to offend you but let you know that these places many times do have an entertainment budget although I agree he is a bit cynical about the manager's year end bonus but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if he comes in under budget....... Here's a link to a musician who plays 131 senior jobs a year and charges for the gig. I found it an interesting read. Skip down to "Pay for Senior Gigs" https://daveruch.com/advice/entertainment-for-seniors/
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Steve, you captured my initial post before I edited it. It doesn’t really matter.

the vibe is the same either way.

This idiot annoyed me with his presumption, based on no knowledge.

as it happens there is no budget. This care home does not have live entertainment for its guests of any kind. It cant afford to.

My Dad had Alzheimer’s and passed away a few months ago, after a long decline. I saw this as a way to say thanks,and was doing this before he passed away. I never ever discussed money with them, and I offered my services for nothing.

His crass comment just hit a nerve.
 

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How can you gripe about somebody's "crass" comment in the same post you call someone an idiot? (or a moron)
 

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“The Band will perform each evening alongside a cast of over 1,200, in front of a live nightly international audience of 8,800, a total of 220,000 during the season, with a further 100 million watching the show on television around the world.”
So the arranger/conducor will no doubt be collecting performance royalties on all the public domain tunes, Auld lang Syne, Scotland the Brave, God save the Queen. Thunk aboot it (Edinburgh accent). Potentially six figures.

Expecing musicians to work for nothing just due to it being non-profit and exposure is totally insulting.

What I don't get is why the armed forces don't have enough musicians to do this, at least they would be on a salary for their work.
 

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Because, probably, in time of global privatization of everything previously domain of public services and civil or army servant, the event sees, yes, the army(ies) bands performing but it is not an Army or a State event.
 

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We have a world class chamber orchestra up here in Minnesota. A few years ago they were on strike and getting a lot of bad press. I was listing to a talk show on the way to work and one of the announcers commented "that 70,000/year was too much. After all they were just musicians." I just about ran off the road. Doesn't anybody respect the work and skill it takes to play at that level.
 

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The issue has received some bad news lately. I just got back from a tour which included the Edinburgh Tattoo. Also attended the Tattoo in 70 and 75 with a band from Florida (as spectators) but I don't recall any news issues back then about pay. Not sure how they are going to deal with. And yes the event is sold out every year as you can see from photos. You have to book a year in advance for a good seat. There is some serious money there.

The majority of music is provided by the Scottish and Irish military brass and pipe bands who are active duty. And there are some military and civilian bands from other countries. I have no idea how they are sponsored financially.

The individual (non-local) Highland dancers are there on their own expense. Some are dance teachers and they add it to their resume which will, in some cases, help in getting more dance students. And a few might be sponsored by a Clan society to help with the expenses.

The rehearsals leading up to the event are wearing for sure. A lot of live internet streaming at the castle long before the event gets started shows how much work goes into the show along with dress rehearsals. Getting this many people together to play the same scores with drill and dance displays takes many hours.

At any rate I know that the Tattoo will continue for years to come. A lot of money and powerful people behind the scenes. How they are going to deal with the pay issue remains to be seen. But I believe that apart from the active duty units they will always have individuals and groups to perform without pay for various reasons.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....es-slammed-for-not-paying-musicians-1-4964673

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17768994.edinburgh-tattoo-exploits-musicians-asking-play-no-pay/

https://www.theedinburghreporter.co...g-for-musicians-to-work-for-food-and-lodging/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Edinburgh_Military_Tattoo
 
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