[SaxKidd]

I just started playing french horn this year in my school's lower band class and I really enjoy it, but a few people have told me that doubling on french horn as a sax player is a bad idea because it will mess up my sax embouchure. I have worked very hard over the years to improve my sax embouchure and tone and it is finally to the point where it is really nice. I don't want to mess this up, but I don't want to give up horn either. I'm going to have to learn to play it in college as a music ed. major anyway, so I think its a good idea to start learning now, but I'm scared. Any opinions on what should I do? Thanks in advance!

 

[gwysham]

I play horn in the orchestra (as well as flute in the flute choir) and sax whenever possible, and I feel no discernible effect, one on the other.

 

[Enviroguy]

Yes. Doubling on french horn may also make you sterile! And laboratory studies have shown it to suppress primary and secondary gender features in rat and mice.

Actually, the real answer is no. There can be some short-term effect to your saxophone embouchure. But if you've been playing for several years, these should be very minor. And the extra muscles used to develop a brass embouchure can ultimately compliment and enhance your sax playing. At least, that's what I've seen.

The only down side is that you won't be able to make fun of french horn players anymore. And that is a true loss. :bluewink:

 

[Dr G]

Contact SotW member "Gary" for more insight.

 

[gary]

Gary has been contacted. (Sounds like something almost spiritualist, LOL.)

Before answering, I would like to know what kind of actual experience these people have who told you that and what their qualifications are. I'm getting sick and tired of reading on internet forums the words or their equivalent, "I heard...".

As has been said above, the answer is "no" and it's no more complicated than that.

My qualifications? I am not playing much sax now (a little lead alto in a community big band I lead on an as-needed basis), but formerly I was an alto and tenor player and I also play Horn in the Austin Civic Wind Ensemble.

The Horn is a marvelous instrument and well worth the effort. Sax is great and a very flexible instrument, musically but I think the Horn will also grow on you. Spend some time every once in a while listening to some videos on YouTube. They're inspirational.

 

[gwysham]

The only down side is that you won't be able to make fun of french horn players anymore. And that is a true loss. :bluewink:

Hey! I resemble that remark!

 

[Mikko]

I play mainly Horn but currently been very interested to play alto- and baritone saxes. What I find is that I have much difficulties to play in same concert with both type of instruments. If I play first Horn then I can continue with sax. But if I try to play Horn after sax it is almost impossible to me. It takes about a day (to me) to get my Horn lips completely back again. Somebodys say that this would be solvable too (maybe more practise or more concentration ?) and I am not really very worried about this. Its just irritating that after bari -playing you would like to play Horn in upper register and that seems not to work with me.

Reading more and more opinions on this forum its pleased to find out that there are really many brass-reed doublers. I would trust in Garys opinions - he seems to have really good feel and knowledge of these things.

Gary, could you please recommend a couple of good Youtube -videos where both types are played (by same person ofcourse) ?

:bass::line0::treble::line6:

 

[gary]

Mikko - if you have a problem playing Horn after playing the sax, I believe that is simply because your sax embouchure is not yet strong enough to hold up on its own. Your chops are already tired and then you pick up the Horn. You just need to strengthen your sax chops.

Regarding your practicing, since you are primarily a Horn player, I would suggest playing your normal Horn practice session first. Then after a reasonable pause, practice sax, but take it easy, and practice in short sessions, taking care not to get tired. When your chops start to loose strength and especially if you feel yourself biting, stop. Ideally, you should learn to know when to stop before you get to this point. Try to end with some slow, no stress, easy long-tone like melodies.

Mikko, I don't understand your last sentence. Can you explain a little more?

 

[SaxKidd]

Thanks everyone! I'm starting to feel better abouth this I don't have much of a problem switching from horn to sax and vice versa. During school I have concert band class first where I play horn and then literally 5 min after I pack up I have symphonic band and I play my sax. It was a little weird at first but I've gotten used to it! Anyone else have experiences doubling brass?

 

[NissanVintageSax]

You'll be glad of your double if you start playing in pit bands! I don't play French Horn, but had to play a pit band part that had me going from Alto Sax to French Horn. I had to transpose the French Horn part on the fly (but it isn't the same timbre as an actual Horn, but my transposition served its purpose).

 

[gwysham]

The worst transition I ever had to do was bari to piccolo back to bari in High School jazz band, but *that* was forever ago!

 

[gary]

You'll be glad of your double if you start playing in pit bands! I don't play French Horn, but had to play a pit band part that had me going from Alto Sax to French Horn. I had to transpose the French Horn part on the fly (but it isn't the same timbre as an actual Horn, but my transposition served its purpose).

What?! Who the hell wrote a part for alto doubling on Horn? That's insane.

 

[Ben Marrow]

No, but it will hurt your saxophone's feelings. Play everything you can get your hands on. It might even strengthen your lungs more than the sax.

 

[Mikko]

Mikko - if you have a problem playing Horn after playing the sax, I believe that is simply because your sax embouchure is not yet strong enough to hold up on its own. Your chops are already tired and then you pick up the Horn. You just need to strengthen your sax chops.

Regarding your practicing, since you are primarily a Horn player, I would suggest playing your normal Horn practice session first. Then after a reasonable pause, practice sax, but take it easy, and practice in short sessions, taking care not to get tired. When your chops start to loose strength and especially if you feel yourself biting, stop. Ideally, you should learn to know when to stop before you get to this point. Try to end with some slow, no stress, easy long-tone like melodies.

Mikko, I don't understand your last sentence. Can you explain a little more?

--------------

Gary, thank you very much for your advices. It encourages me a lot. I feel I understand what you mean - I sure am mainly practicing/playing Horn and has just a little time to blow saxes. So it makes very sense what you say (I suspected that but wasnt any sure).
My last sentence: I just asked video examples because in my neighbourhood community where I primarily play is only the one person who plays both brass and reeds. This person is encouraging me but because beeing absolute professional (me being a keen amateur) I feel that I have not enough references. In Bands where I play people almost laugh if I mention that I could play also some alto sax.... (I play Horn III - in practice both upper and lower parts - thats Horn playing ! ). But saxes are real keen and they have a true sound potential. So I would just be happy to see some action e.g. in videos or live where a person really plays a Horn and Reeds - never seen. (I hope this would be more clear sentence, sorry for my bad English).
:treble::line6::bass::space0:

 

[gwysham]

What?! Who the hell wrote a part for alto doubling on Horn? That's insane.

That's not even how "normal" pit books work. Reed books are woodwinds, horn would be in a brass book, probably by itself!

 

[gary]

Mikko - I understand your YouTube request now. Sorry, I do not know about anyone who doubles on sax and Horn that has any YouTube videos.

 

[Enviroguy]

Before answering, I would like to know what kind of actual experience these people have who told you that and what their qualifications are. I'm getting sick and tired of reading on internet forums the words or their equivalent, "I heard...".

My qualifications are minor compared to Gary. But I've playing sax myself for over thirty years and have delved into most major brass instruments at one time or another. Specifically, I've helped a few student players with this exact same problem. It's a common situation with students that play alto during concert season and marching french horn (mellophone) during marching band.

And I stand by my advice. You may have some short term issues, but in the long run, you will have stronger chops that can enhance your sax playing.

 

[gary]

I'm referring to, "I heard . . . " meaning, "I'm assuming what I heard is true (even though I can't provide any proof), but I'll repeat it anyway.

 

[NissanVintageSax]

What?! Who the hell wrote a part for alto doubling on Horn? That's insane.

It is insane! The reed 1 book had Alto Sax, French Horn, Flute, piccolo and Clarinet. I did it all on Alto and Soprano saxes. I forgot which play it was (they all burr together now!)

 

[NissanVintageSax]

That's not even how "normal" pit books work. Reed books are woodwinds, horn would be in a brass book, probably by itself!

That is true in most cases. I was aghast when I saw it myself! Would have never believed either!

All other reed books I've played have been any combination and pitch of flute, Clarinet, and Sax (I did have a Mandolin double in the musical "Chicago" I do also play violin, so it wasn't too much of a stretch to play the mandolin part. This was reed one for Chicago: Alto Sax, Soprano Sax, Bb Clarinet, Flute, Mandolin. I just played Alto, Soprano and Mandolin.)