[ivan.essilfie]

So ive learned a few choruses of some of my favorite players blowing over standards but i feel as though im hitting a wall. As Jazz improvisers we're told that imitating is the best way to learn the language. It's almost as if transcribing is this magic trick that can take you to the next level, but in a lot of ways i feel as though it's not seeping into my own playing as quickly as i'd like.

Can anyone explain why transcribing (by ear) is so important, and how exactly does it improve your own playing?

Also, any tips/techniques on taking these solo's and translating them into ways that i can use to develop my own sound?

 

[Pete Thomas]

Well unless you analyse and learn from what you transcribe it’s more or less useless except as good ear training.

Nor is it just about picking out licks and scales and theory - you need to understand about development, shape, tension and release.

 

[toughtenor]

the ear training part is great but there are more benefits if you dig a little deeper in to the transcription. it's not just about the notes and the harmonic concepts a particular player is using, it's also about the phrasing, the tone concept, the articulation etc. Transcribing forces you to listen very closely to these aspects as well. Once you learned the solo by heart and really try to match as closely as you can the original recording a lot of these aspects will seep in to your playing. Maybe not "as quickly as you like". But it will. IF you give it time, don't be impatient and keep working on those things. and apart from repeating the whole solo over and over again, you could also zoom in on certain parts. Pick one or two lines that really stand out to you and analyze them, so you know what's going on harmonically. Take that little nugget and transpose that to other keys, take it to other tempi, and styles. maybe apply other rhythms to it as well. If it doesn't really work great in the extreme registers, find ways around that by altering those lines in the style of the player you're transcribing. Or ask yourself how YOU'd like to play the line. I wouldn't worry to much about developping your own sound, that is goin to happen anyway over time.

 

[Atratr]

Agree with everything said. Sometimes is more about how you do it and going to a deeper level. It is not only just get the notes and play them. Nuance is also important.
Then you have to analyse what it is played and take language or concepts you can practice in all 12 keys. The more you do it the ore it shows in your playing.
You can also learn about developing a solo, telling a story.

 

[Morph1590]

A few points which will hopefully help:

1) Sing the solo (along with the recording and ideally on you own) - this will help get the phrases permanently into your inner ear. This is the most organic way of internalising the language

2) Memorise the solo. Sounds like you've already don this - if so, great. I used to skip this part, and just write the solos down, which meant I got far, far less out of the transcription process. I think this is probably the most important part. Playing the solos hundreds of times helps me to absorb it. This is probably a much less efficient way compared with 1) but it's fun

3) Write the solo out and analyse it. Make sure you write it with the chords. Try to analyse what's going on. Depending on the player, if they're blowing over standards, it's usually not too hard to understand what devices are being used. A teacher can come in handy here

4) Isolate your favourite phrases. Analyse them; what degree do they start on, what's the harmonic approach - e.g. Altered dominant? Diminished? chord tones? enclosures? anticipating the harmony? delayed resolution? are they playing motivically? Learn them in all 12 keys. Then WRITE YOUR OWN VARIATIONS on these phrases, this is important to help personalise and internalise the language. I learnt this from a student of Dave Liebman.

5) Analyse the solo in a more holistic way. Think about the more intangible element. Gestural playing, flurries of notes, time feel, emotion, sense of drama, narrative structure, the arc of the solo etc.

 

[Nefertiti]

So ive learned a few choruses of some of my favorite players blowing over standards but i feel as though im hitting a wall. As Jazz improvisers we're told that imitating is the best way to learn the language. It's almost as if transcribing is this magic trick that can take you to the next level, but in a lot of ways i feel as though it's not seeping into my own playing as quickly as i'd like.

Can anyone explain why transcribing (by ear) is so important, and how exactly does it improve your own playing?

Also, any tips/techniques on taking these solo's and translating them into ways that i can use to develop my own sound?

You have to break down the solo to the language used and practice those individual bits while improvising. To do this, you have to understand the reason and function of why the short musical word or phrase works. It's like if you were learning english and memorized the sentence "I took my dog to the store to get dog biscuits". It's great to memorize that sentence but how many times in life are you going to use it? You have to break down the sentence to language. Understanding "I took" and what it means. Understanding "my dog" and what that means. Learning to swap out words so now you can say "my cat"or my turtle". Instead of store, you can say park, hospital, vet,etc....Now you are more able to use the elements from the original sentence but you have to break it down to language and improvise while speaking. It is the same way with music.

 

[Grumps]

If you're going to steal, steal from the best.

 

[1saxman]

If you are so well-versed in music notation that you are able to write down these frenetic solos, simply the process of hearing it and transferring it to notation (transcribing) should amount to a jazz education in itself, as well as being an instant benefit to your sight reading. Plus, you will always have it as a permanent record to refer back to later.
You used the phrase 'transcribing by ear' and I'm not sure what that means - are you saying learning it by ear and not writing it down? That's 'learning', not 'transcribing'. OTOH, the ear is necessary to hear the phrase so you'll know what to notate on the chart - could that be your meaning?
Not being particularly fluent in music reading/notation, I learned by listening and picking out the notes. Doing it the right way is definitely the way to go as you compress the time it takes to understand what you're trying to play by a factor of 10.
You want to develop your 'sound', but I think you really meant 'style', which of course includes the 'sound'. When you hear a player you really like, it gets into your head, and over time you begin to hear it in your own playing. You will hear many styles over the years and your own style may take some twists and turns before it settles down to become 'yours'. This is what we term 'maturity' but you don't have to wait to be old before you get it. Record yourself a lot and work on where you want it to go.

 

[A Greene]

For years I worked from Transcription books and results were not great. Nothing really stuck. The last 4 years, I've been steadily learning solos from recordings then posting them on my YouTube Channel. Once I've learned something, I try to pull 2 or 3 nice lines to work through all 12 keys. I find that transcriptions are not so much WHAT to play but HOW to play passages. It's all the nuance with regards to timing, pitch, articulation, etc... The stuff that is nearly impossible to write down. I leave each solo with something I can use in my own playing. It's really odd sometimes what sticks.

Two Side Items I've learned about Transcribing:

1) I ONLY transcript stuff that I like. I've tried to force myself to work on solos that were supposed to be 'good for me' but it was torture.

2) I try to be careful not to pick solos that are overly technical. Some difficult stuff is challenging but I found myself on at least 3 occasions derailed by some super human playing beyond my physical world. It's a bummer but at 52 years old, I know when my fingers have thrown in the towel.

 

[JayeLID]

I guess as I read this thread I am having trouble with folks recommending stuff like

"then you have to analyze it".

This works for SOME players, some folks with particular 'kinds of minds".

But it doesn't work for everybody.

Is it really necessary to pick a solo apart ? Rather than just absorbing it as a whole ? Or just absorbing, focusing on the aspects of it which resonate with you ?

Is not 'getting the gist' of what the player was doing just as 'fruitful' as dissecting the entire transcription in a formal, analytical way ?

If you are so well-versed in music notation that you are able to write down these frenetic solos, simply the process of hearing it and transferring it to notation (transcribing) should amount to a jazz education in itself

Yes, I like THIS. Very much.

Simply by virtue of the fact that you transcribe, you are improving and absorbing without necessarily taking a scalpel to the solo/transcription. DO NOT confuse this with me saying "once you transcribe it, that's all you need", because that's not what I am necessarily saying.

But "Analyzing", to me... implies there is a 'task' ahead of you which NEEDS to be performed in order to "unlock" some message, secret, mystery, or answer.

That's an interesting way to approach music.

It's also not the only way, and again may not be a fruitful path for a lot of players.

 

[Atratr]

By analysing i mean that by doing it you can get more than just the language. So you find concepts inside you can then put into practice. Like for example.. to imply an altered sound you can use that triad. So you practice using that triad in other ways, or your ways.
Also i don't see nothing negative in analysing, i can only see improved and efficient practice from it.

 

[saxoclese]

In my view, it is their style of articulation even more than note choices and tone that makes the great jazz players stand out and sound the way they do. Much of it is so nuanced that it is next to impossible to write down. It can only be learned by listening and imitating (parroting) what you hear. An exercise I have done that is both frustrating and revealing is to listen to for example a recording of Cannonball Adderly in headphones while recording myself playing along note for note. I sometimes cheat by reading transcriptions of solos to save time. Notes, rhythms, and even tone quality are relatively easy to match. Nuances of style and articulation are the real mountain to climb---especially legato tonguing and emphasizing with the breath the "right" notes in each phrase.